I need to be a nonbeliever to set myself free. Could someone help me?

[The Transcended Omniverse]

I am completely undecided when it comes to the existence of God and the afterlife. I see nothing more than an ongoing debate of various religious and secular views. Many different people have many different answers. Some people are materialists who think that once you die, that is it. Some think that there is a God out there watching and judging you.

But I see no definite answer here. So that means I am open to all the various views of the afterlife and God. This means I am, unfortunately, open to the possibility of Christianity being true. This is a most hated religion to me that I wish to not be open to at all as a possibility. That way, I won't have to worry about going to hell over every little thing I do wrong in this God's eyes.

I detest Christianity so much because the Christian God is no way to develop a personal spiritual relationship with anybody. Someone who judges your way of life you like to enjoy as sinful is a sure way to turn someone off and reject you. That is no way to make friends. That will only make enemies. But a God who supports your way of life and is completely cool with you having parties, sex, etc. would be the most awesome God of all.

I have no desire whatsoever to live for others or to serve anybody. That would include this Christian God. I am only here to be happy and to have a wonderful time. That is the only life worth living to me. The God I would obviously want would be one who is on my side and is completely fine with me living as I want as long as I don't harm/torture others.

He would be a God who would be fine with me having a wonderful time here in this life and then send me up to his heavenly kingdom for all eternity which would be an even greater life that is far more blissful, fun, etc. I would prefer to have that personal God I mentioned because I obviously don't want to die. I want to live on happy for eternity. But at the same time, I wish to not believe in the Christian God or any other condemning God. Any other way of living that does not allow me to be happy, have a wonderful time, and live as I want is simply a life not worth living to me at all. It is a detestable life I would wish to have nothing to do with.

This would be a personal God meant for me who is completely fine with me being the judge of myself and my own way of life. He would allow me to set my own personal goals and expectations rather than expecting and demanding me to meet his commands. Therefore, the best bet is for me to either become a full materialist where I don't believe in any God at all, or to somehow believe in this personal God I have created.

That way, I would have escaped the horrible possibility of Christianity and other religions that condemn you and your personal way of life. But I don't know how to get there. I am completely stuck in this undecided mindset and I am not sure any argument presented will convince me since there will always be other people with their arguments.

But I am at least willing to try. So I will engage in a debate here as a means to try and convince me. Hopefully it works out in my favor and hopefully I will finally be completely free from all that religious dogma out there that condemns you and makes you obey certain rules.

 

[Rival]

So, you're an agnostic who hates Christianity. Where is the debate about that?

Kyrie eleison.

 

[buddhist]

Why do you need to believe in a "personal God"?

It seems like you desire to escape from your sufferings (e.g. when you speak about "I am only here to be happy and to have a wonderful time.")

I similarly set myself free from Christianity through knowledge and wisdom, and early Buddhism was instrumental in that process.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

So, you're an agnostic who hates Christianity. Where is the debate about that?

Kyrie eleison.

The debate I wish to have is one that tries to convince me that Christianity and all other condemning religions are false. I mentioned this near the end of my opening post.

Why do you need to believe in a "personal God"?

It seems like you desire to escape from your sufferings (e.g. when you speak about "I am only here to be happy and to have a wonderful time.")

I similarly set myself free from Christianity through knowledge and wisdom, and early Buddhism was instrumental in that process.

I would prefer to have that personal God I mentioned because I obviously don't want to die. I want to live on happy for eternity. But at the same time, I wish to not believe in the Christian God or any other condemning God. Any other way of living that does not allow me to be happy, have a wonderful time, and live as I want is simply a life not worth living to me at all. It is a detestable life I would wish to have nothing to do with.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Become a LaVeyan Satanist or something like that. Left-Hand Path religions don't care if you party or are selfish.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

Become a LaVeyan Satanist or something like that. Left-Hand Path religions don't care if you party or are selfish.

In order for me to become that, I would have to believe in that. Belief is not a matter of choice. One can only believe something when he/she is convinced it is true.

 

[buddhist]

I would prefer to have that personal God I mentioned because I obviously don't want to die. I want to live on happy for eternity. But at the same time, I wish to not believe in the Christian God or any other condemning God. Any other way of living that does not allow me to be happy, have a wonderful time, and live as I want is simply a life not worth living to me at all. It is a detestable life I would wish to have nothing to do with.

What does a personal God have to do with not dying?

 

[Rival]

The debate I wish to have is one that tries to convince me that Christianity and all other condemning religions are false. I mentioned this near the end of my opening post.

It appears to me that you seem to hate dogma and so on. I think it's totally beyond my ability to prove anything to you. Also, even as a total atheist you will still have dogma I presume, unless you become a total nihilist. If you think murder, child molestation, racism and classism are all wrong, then you have dogma. You live, brother, in a world of rules and you will end up following them whether consciously or not.

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

What does a personal God have to do with not dying?

Nevermind. I don't need a God. All I would want is an eternal blissful heaven the way I want it to be and for me to be happy in for all eternity. I would definitely want to believe in that. But if that goal cannot be attained, then I would want to be convinced of materialism. If I had the choice to just die and be nothing more or to have Christianity and other condemning religions to be true, I would choose to die and be nothing more.

It appears to me that you seem to hate dogma and so on. I think it's totally beyond my ability to prove anything to you. Also, even as a total atheist you will still have dogma I presume, unless you become a total nihilist. If you think murder, child molestation, racism and classism are all wrong, then you have dogma. You live, brother, in a world of rules and you will end up following them whether consciously or not.

I have no dogma carried by any religious beliefs. I just simply have my own personal moral view that if I were to go out harming and torturing other innocent people, that would be wrong. It would be a view that I would of had all along, religious or not. But anyway, don't you think there could be a way to convince me through a debate? I know this can be done. Some people have managed to be convinced through debates and I see no reason why I should be an exception.

 

[Rival]

In order for me to become that, I would have to believe in that. Belief is not a matter of choice. One can only believe something when he/she is convinced it is true.

LaVeyan Satanists are atheists, so there's not really any 'belief' as such there.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I am completely undecided when it comes to the existence of God and the afterlife. I see nothing more than an ongoing debate of various religious and secular views. Many different people have many different answers. Some people are materialists who think that once you die, that is it. Some think that there is a God out there watching and judging you.

But I see no definite answer here. So that means I am open to all the various views of the afterlife and God. This means I am, unfortunately, open to the possibility of Christianity being true. This is a most hated religion to me that I wish to not be open to at all as a possibility. That way, I won't have to worry about going to hell over every little thing I do wrong in this God's eyes.

I detest Christianity so much because the Christian God is no way to develop a personal spiritual relationship with anybody. Someone who judges your way of life you like to enjoy as sinful is a sure way to turn someone off and reject you. That is no way to make friends. That will only make enemies. But a God who supports your way of life and is completely cool with you having parties, sex, etc. would be the most awesome God of all.

I have no desire whatsoever to live for others or to serve anybody. That would include this Christian God. I am only here to be happy and to have a wonderful time. That is the only life worth living to me. The God I would obviously want would be one who is on my side and is completely fine with me living as I want as long as I don't harm/torture others.

He would be a God who would be fine with me having a wonderful time here in this life and then send me up to his heavenly kingdom for all eternity which would be an even greater life that is far more blissful, fun, etc. I would prefer to have that personal God I mentioned because I obviously don't want to die. I want to live on happy for eternity. But at the same time, I wish to not believe in the Christian God or any other condemning God. Any other way of living that does not allow me to be happy, have a wonderful time, and live as I want is simply a life not worth living to me at all. It is a detestable life I would wish to have nothing to do with.

This would be a personal God meant for me who is completely fine with me being the judge of myself and my own way of life. He would allow me to set my own personal goals and expectations rather than expecting and demanding me to meet his commands. Therefore, the best bet is for me to either become a full materialist where I don't believe in any God at all, or to somehow believe in this personal God I have created.

That way, I would have escaped the horrible possibility of Christianity and other religions that condemn you and your personal way of life. But I don't know how to get there. I am completely stuck in this undecided mindset and I am not sure any argument presented will convince me since there will always be other people with their arguments.

But I am at least willing to try. So I will engage in a debate here as a means to try and convince me. Hopefully it works out in my favor and hopefully I will finally be completely free from all that religious dogma out there that condemns you and makes you obey certain rules.

How do you personally define a god?

Do you need Christianity to believe in god?

 

[Rival]

Nevermind. I don't need a God. All I would want is an eternal blissful heaven the way I want it to be and for me to be happy in for all eternity. I would definitely want to believe in that. But if that goal cannot be attained, then I would want to be convinced of materialism. If I had the choice to just die and be nothing more or to have Christianity and other condemning religions to be true, I would choose to die and be nothing more.



I have no dogma carried by any religious beliefs. I just simply have my own personal moral view that if I were to go out harming and torturing other innocent people, that would be wrong. It would be a view that I would of had all along, religious or not. But anyway, don't you think there could be a way to convince me through a debate? I know this can be done. Some people have managed to be convinced through debates and I see no reason why I should be an exception.

I found that watching videos of debates and so forth on youtube a better help than debate fora. People like David Wood, James White, etc. for the Christian side, Matt Dillahunty, Aaron Ra, etc. for the atheist side (they had me convinced for a while).

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

How do you personally define a god?

Do you need Christianity to believe in god?

A god would be the deity who created the universe. I don't need Christianity to believe in a god. I just wish to believe in that personal God I've mentioned. But it isn't necessary. All I would want to believe in is an eternal blissful heaven I can go to after I die and have that said life any way I want it to be. If that goal can't be obtained, then I would want to believe that once you die, that is it.

I found that watching videos of debates and so forth on youtube a better help than debate fora. People like David Wood, James White, etc. for the Christian side, Matt Dillahunty, Aaron Ra, etc. for the atheist side (they had me convinced for a while).

I was looking for more of a personal debate here because all those other debates you've mentioned cover generalized concepts regarding religion and not what needs to be specifically debated here in order for me to be convinced.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I am completely undecided when it comes to the existence of God and the afterlife. I see nothing more than an ongoing debate of various religious and secular views. Many different people have many different answers. Some people are materialists who think that once you die, that is it. Some think that there is a God out there watching and judging you.

But I see no definite answer here. So that means I am open to all the various views of the afterlife and God. This means I am, unfortunately, open to the possibility of Christianity being true. This is a most hated religion to me that I wish to not be open to at all as a possibility. That way, I won't have to worry about going to hell over every little thing I do wrong in this God's eyes.

I detest Christianity so much because the Christian God is no way to develop a personal spiritual relationship with anybody. Someone who judges your way of life you like to enjoy as sinful is a sure way to turn someone off and reject you. That is no way to make friends. That will only make enemies. But a God who supports your way of life and is completely cool with you having parties, sex, etc. would be the most awesome God of all.

I have no desire whatsoever to live for others or to serve anybody. That would include this Christian God. I am only here to be happy and to have a wonderful time. That is the only life worth living to me. The God I would obviously want would be one who is on my side and is completely fine with me living as I want as long as I don't harm/torture others.

He would be a God who would be fine with me having a wonderful time here in this life and then send me up to his heavenly kingdom for all eternity which would be an even greater life that is far more blissful, fun, etc. I would prefer to have that personal God I mentioned because I obviously don't want to die. I want to live on happy for eternity. But at the same time, I wish to not believe in the Christian God or any other condemning God. Any other way of living that does not allow me to be happy, have a wonderful time, and live as I want is simply a life not worth living to me at all. It is a detestable life I would wish to have nothing to do with.

This would be a personal God meant for me who is completely fine with me being the judge of myself and my own way of life. He would allow me to set my own personal goals and expectations rather than expecting and demanding me to meet his commands. Therefore, the best bet is for me to either become a full materialist where I don't believe in any God at all, or to somehow believe in this personal God I have created.

That way, I would have escaped the horrible possibility of Christianity and other religions that condemn you and your personal way of life. But I don't know how to get there. I am completely stuck in this undecided mindset and I am not sure any argument presented will convince me since there will always be other people with their arguments.

But I am at least willing to try. So I will engage in a debate here as a means to try and convince me. Hopefully it works out in my favor and hopefully I will finally be completely free from all that religious dogma out there that condemns you and makes you obey certain rules.

Everything went fine before all the God stuff got introduced by someone, didn't it?

Just go back there.

 

[Rival]

A god would be the deity who created the universe. I don't need Christianity to believe in a god. I just wish to believe in that personal God I've mentioned. But it isn't necessary. All I would want to believe in is an eternal blissful heaven I can go to after I die and have that said life any way I want it to be. If that goal can't be obtained, then I would want to believe that once you die, that is it.



I was looking for more of a personal debate here because all those other debates you've mentioned cover generalized concepts regarding religion and not what needs to be specifically debated here in order for me to be convinced.

But you've already stated that you hate my God etc. This is emotion. How can one argue against emotion?

 

[Kirran]

So look, you don't believe in Christianity. You think it is possibly true, or you wouldn't want people disproving it to you, but you don't want it to be. You're already and unbeliever. You just want to be a convinced believer in something else.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

In order for me to become that, I would have to believe in that. Belief is not a matter of choice. One can only believe something when he/she is convinced it is true.

LaVeyan Satanist are Atheistic. Idk if I would call them Satanist at all.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

LaVeyan Satanist are Atheistic. Idk if I would call them Satanist at all.

You don't have to be a theist to be a Satanist.

 

[Skwim]

I abandoned Christianity after reading a single book

This is but one of its different printings/covers. It's extremely straightforward and very easy to read, meaning it's not boring. If it isn't in your local library it is available online---from $3.00 used to around $12.00 new.

I have no dogma carried by any religious beliefs. I just simply have my own personal moral view that if I were to go out harming and torturing other innocent people, that would be wrong. It would be a view that I would of had all along, religious or not. But anyway, don't you think there could be a way to convince me through a debate? I know this can be done. Some people have managed to be convinced through debates and I see no reason why I should be an exception.

As for being convinced by debates, I wouldn't put much faith in it unless you have a discerning mind---able to cut through false arguments, exaggerations, unverifiable claims, and such. Good luck.​

.

​

 

[The Transcended Omniverse]

But you've already stated that you hate my God etc. This is emotion. How can one argue against emotion?

It is true that I hate the Christian God, but my emotions do not dictate my stance in a debate. I look at arguments from a purely rational point of view since I wish to know what is really true. Emotions would only serve to give me a very inaccurate and irrational point of view. Therefore, I don't go by emotions in determining which religious/secular view must be true.

So look, you don't believe in Christianity. You think it is possibly true, or you wouldn't want people disproving it to you, but you don't want it to be. You're already and unbeliever. You just want to be a convinced believer in something else.

Yes, that is correct. I wish to either be fully convinced of heaven and my personal God or to be fully convinced of scientific materialism.

I abandoned Christianity after reading a single book

This is but one of its different printings/covers. It's extremely straightforward and very easy to read, meaning it's not boring. If it isn't in your local library it is available online---from $3.00 used to around $12.00 new.


As for being convinced by debates, I wouldn't put much faith in it unless you have a discerning mind---able to cut through false arguments, exaggerations, unverifiable claims, and such. Good luck.​

.

​

Thank you. But even then it all still comes down to a debate since there would also be many people who would come up with debating arguments against that book. So it is not a simple matter of reading some book and becoming convinced. That would be a simplistic and closed minded approach where you are just simply looking at the small picture. It is looking beyond the book and instead looking at the entire debating community.

It is looking at the overall big picture. So when I go and read up on all the possible debates I can, I find myself completely undecided since there is still no definite answer. Any answer someone presents whether it be through a book or an article, it does not end there. Even these books and articles will have debates. Therefore, it all comes down to debates. So I am not sure how I can be convinced when any answer presented to me will always have arguments against it in return.