I now think less of Christianity

[2ndpillar]

Why do I now think less of Christianity?

Basically, because I have now witnessed its dark side, first hand.

Some background: I was raised as a Christian. I was baptised as an infant and have a set of godparents, I went to a church school, and occasionally went to Sunday school. My personal moral system is very much inspired by the teachings and example of Christ.

However, when I became old enough to understand what Christianity was about and that it weren’t necessarily so, I became an atheist. In time my atheism developed, becoming more and more sophisticated as I progressed through school and into university. I didn’t hate Christianity or anything like that; I just thought it was not for me, and not something I could never believe in.

I came to God in my mid-twenties. By then I’d had first-hand experience of a mysterious higher being so made the leap of faith that if there were higher beings then there must be a Supreme Being – God. But there are other reasons that I believe in a Supreme Being, although my conception of the Supreme Being is more like Brahman in Hinduism than the Abrahamic God. I would currently consider myself a deist and would say I am overwhelmingly convinced of the existence of God.

Basically, my experience of Christians and Christianity had always been positive. Until recent events…

For a long time now I have been in two competing minds about the nature of Jesus. I hold both of these as being possible and they exist alongside each other although I currently favour First Mind. Think of it as being like a set of old-fashioned weighing scales in my conscience. I’ve been wavering between the two versions of reality for a while now. Currently they are much more balanced in favour of First Mind more than they were before recent events. To say the least…

First Mind: We are all parts of a computer simulation and Jesus was a show put on for various reasons by The Simulation, for reasons about which we can only speculate. But God still exists, but he is outside of The Simulation. In this version of reality The Simulation communicates with me. I do not claim to have any special relationship with God but do claim a special relationship with The Simulation.

Second Mind: We are not in a computer simulation and Jesus truly was the Son of God, and the account in the gospels is true and he will some day return to Earth, etc. and in this version of reality I am mentally ill and need to acknowledge Christ as my Lord and Saviour by undergoing adult baptism.

Because I am in two minds about him I would therefore say I am agnostic about Jesus. I cannot therefore meaningfully accept him as my Lord and Saviour and become a Christian myself.

I once explained this agnosticism to a nice Christian lady and she understood and respected it and said she’d pray for me to see the light whether I liked it or not! Now, maybe she thought that by not declaring Christ to be my Lord and Saviour I will go to hell or maybe she didn’t, I do not know. I didn’t venture to ask. However, the point is she was concerned for me and I don’t think she considered me evil. Surely, one prays for sinners, not for evil people?

I then made a post on these forums enquiring about the anti-Christ (I’m interested in Christology and theology in general). I mentioned my agnosticism pertaining to Christ, and was basically told (through implication) that I was an anti-Christ and therefore evil – in the same category as those who do things that are actually evil, such as murder, harm, and abuse other humans…

Now, don’t get me wrong, that’s totally cool. Believe what you want to believe. I don’t care. But there is now absolutely no way I will become a Christian, whereas before this it may have been possible at some future point depending on how my life might have played out. Who knows. But now almost all the weights on the scales of my conscience are now weighing down on the side that makes them say “yes” to Simulation Theory and therefore “no” to Christianity. They have never before been so weighted down on one side and I don’t see them shifting anytime soon.

That was the first time in my life I have ever personally encountered what I now think of as being the dark side of Christianity first hand, having only ever been personally exposed to its light side.

Has this diminished my respect for Christianity? Not for it as a whole, only for certain tendencies within it. Has it made me more wary of all Christians? Wary until I know they don’t consider me evil, yes. I don’t mind being called a sinner, but calling me evil is something else and something I will always take exception to.

What is the difference between sinning and being evil?

 

[Eddi]

Being evil is about causing harm or pain to another being - an evil act is wrong because of what it does

Sinning is about breaking a rule, or a commandment - a sin is wrong because it beaks a certain code that is considered authoritative

Not all sins are evil

E.g. doubting Christ may be a sin but it is not evil as who exactly does it actually hurt??? Does it really injure God??? If so, how???

 

[Faithofchristian]

Why do I now think less of Christianity?

Basically, because I have now witnessed its dark side, first hand.

Some background: I was raised as a Christian. I was baptised as an infant and have a set of godparents, I went to a church school, and occasionally went to Sunday school. My personal moral system is very much inspired by the teachings and example of Christ.

However, when I became old enough to understand what Christianity was about and that it weren’t necessarily so, I became an atheist. In time my atheism developed, becoming more and more sophisticated as I progressed through school and into university. I didn’t hate Christianity or anything like that; I just thought it was not for me, and not something I could never believe in.

I came to God in my mid-twenties. By then I’d had first-hand experience of a mysterious higher being so made the leap of faith that if there were higher beings then there must be a Supreme Being – God. But there are other reasons that I believe in a Supreme Being, although my conception of the Supreme Being is more like Brahman in Hinduism than the Abrahamic God. I would currently consider myself a deist and would say I am overwhelmingly convinced of the existence of God.

Basically, my experience of Christians and Christianity had always been positive. Until recent events…

For a long time now I have been in two competing minds about the nature of Jesus. I hold both of these as being possible and they exist alongside each other although I currently favour First Mind. Think of it as being like a set of old-fashioned weighing scales in my conscience. I’ve been wavering between the two versions of reality for a while now. Currently they are much more balanced in favour of First Mind more than they were before recent events. To say the least…

First Mind: We are all parts of a computer simulation and Jesus was a show put on for various reasons by The Simulation, for reasons about which we can only speculate. But God still exists, but he is outside of The Simulation. In this version of reality The Simulation communicates with me. I do not claim to have any special relationship with God but do claim a special relationship with The Simulation.

Second Mind: We are not in a computer simulation and Jesus truly was the Son of God, and the account in the gospels is true and he will some day return to Earth, etc. and in this version of reality I am mentally ill and need to acknowledge Christ as my Lord and Saviour by undergoing adult baptism.

Because I am in two minds about him I would therefore say I am agnostic about Jesus. I cannot therefore meaningfully accept him as my Lord and Saviour and become a Christian myself.

I once explained this agnosticism to a nice Christian lady and she understood and respected it and said she’d pray for me to see the light whether I liked it or not! Now, maybe she thought that by not declaring Christ to be my Lord and Saviour I will go to hell or maybe she didn’t, I do not know. I didn’t venture to ask. However, the point is she was concerned for me and I don’t think she considered me evil. Surely, one prays for sinners, not for evil people?

I then made a post on these forums enquiring about the anti-Christ (I’m interested in Christology and theology in general). I mentioned my agnosticism pertaining to Christ, and was basically told (through implication) that I was an anti-Christ and therefore evil – in the same category as those who do things that are actually evil, such as murder, harm, and abuse other humans…

Now, don’t get me wrong, that’s totally cool. Believe what you want to believe. I don’t care. But there is now absolutely no way I will become a Christian, whereas before this it may have been possible at some future point depending on how my life might have played out. Who knows. But now almost all the weights on the scales of my conscience are now weighing down on the side that makes them say “yes” to Simulation Theory and therefore “no” to Christianity. They have never before been so weighted down on one side and I don’t see them shifting anytime soon.

That was the first time in my life I have ever personally encountered what I now think of as being the dark side of Christianity first hand, having only ever been personally exposed to its light side.

Has this diminished my respect for Christianity? Not for it as a whole, only for certain tendencies within it. Has it made me more wary of all Christians? Wary until I know they don’t consider me evil, yes. I don’t mind being called a sinner, but calling me evil is something else and something I will always take exception to.

Well it's evidence by what your saying, that you been dealing with those who call themselves Christians
All they have is man's teachings, and nothing what Christ Jesus taught.

As there is no where that Christ Jesus ever said to call another Christinan be it a brother or sister Evil.

Just because a Christian may stumble some times, doesn't give any other Christian the right to call them evil.

As we all are sinners and fall short of the glory of God.

But as it is, during the Tribulation when the AntiChrist is here on earth, many Christians will turn against other Christians to deliver them up to the AntiChrist,
Not realizing that he is not the true Christ Jesus, but the AntiChrist, that he is masquerading by deception in deceving the whole world into believing he is Christ Jesus.

 

[Nakosis]

Why do I now think less of Christianity?

Basically, because I have now witnessed its dark side, first hand.

Some background: I was raised as a Christian. I was baptised as an infant and have a set of godparents, I went to a church school, and occasionally went to Sunday school. My personal moral system is very much inspired by the teachings and example of Christ.

However, when I became old enough to understand what Christianity was about and that it weren’t necessarily so, I became an atheist. In time my atheism developed, becoming more and more sophisticated as I progressed through school and into university. I didn’t hate Christianity or anything like that; I just thought it was not for me, and not something I could never believe in.

I came to God in my mid-twenties. By then I’d had first-hand experience of a mysterious higher being so made the leap of faith that if there were higher beings then there must be a Supreme Being – God. But there are other reasons that I believe in a Supreme Being, although my conception of the Supreme Being is more like Brahman in Hinduism than the Abrahamic God. I would currently consider myself a deist and would say I am overwhelmingly convinced of the existence of God.

Basically, my experience of Christians and Christianity had always been positive. Until recent events…

For a long time now I have been in two competing minds about the nature of Jesus. I hold both of these as being possible and they exist alongside each other although I currently favour First Mind. Think of it as being like a set of old-fashioned weighing scales in my conscience. I’ve been wavering between the two versions of reality for a while now. Currently they are much more balanced in favour of First Mind more than they were before recent events. To say the least…

First Mind: We are all parts of a computer simulation and Jesus was a show put on for various reasons by The Simulation, for reasons about which we can only speculate. But God still exists, but he is outside of The Simulation. In this version of reality The Simulation communicates with me. I do not claim to have any special relationship with God but do claim a special relationship with The Simulation.

Second Mind: We are not in a computer simulation and Jesus truly was the Son of God, and the account in the gospels is true and he will some day return to Earth, etc. and in this version of reality I am mentally ill and need to acknowledge Christ as my Lord and Saviour by undergoing adult baptism.

Because I am in two minds about him I would therefore say I am agnostic about Jesus. I cannot therefore meaningfully accept him as my Lord and Saviour and become a Christian myself.

I once explained this agnosticism to a nice Christian lady and she understood and respected it and said she’d pray for me to see the light whether I liked it or not! Now, maybe she thought that by not declaring Christ to be my Lord and Saviour I will go to hell or maybe she didn’t, I do not know. I didn’t venture to ask. However, the point is she was concerned for me and I don’t think she considered me evil. Surely, one prays for sinners, not for evil people?

I then made a post on these forums enquiring about the anti-Christ (I’m interested in Christology and theology in general). I mentioned my agnosticism pertaining to Christ, and was basically told (through implication) that I was an anti-Christ and therefore evil – in the same category as those who do things that are actually evil, such as murder, harm, and abuse other humans…

Now, don’t get me wrong, that’s totally cool. Believe what you want to believe. I don’t care. But there is now absolutely no way I will become a Christian, whereas before this it may have been possible at some future point depending on how my life might have played out. Who knows. But now almost all the weights on the scales of my conscience are now weighing down on the side that makes them say “yes” to Simulation Theory and therefore “no” to Christianity. They have never before been so weighted down on one side and I don’t see them shifting anytime soon.

That was the first time in my life I have ever personally encountered what I now think of as being the dark side of Christianity first hand, having only ever been personally exposed to its light side.

Has this diminished my respect for Christianity? Not for it as a whole, only for certain tendencies within it. Has it made me more wary of all Christians? Wary until I know they don’t consider me evil, yes. I don’t mind being called a sinner, but calling me evil is something else and something I will always take exception to.

IMO, find your own path. Be true to yourself. Let God worry about/deal with what he created.

I figure that I am who I am. Maybe that's not worthy or good enough for God but I can't really change who I am, pretend to be a "Christian" because I think it will make God happy. Maybe you can lie to yourself about it, but if there is a God, what the point in trying to lie to God about who you really are.

This is who I am, take it or leave it. If who I am is not good enough, so be it. I can't be what I'm not.

I try to be the best "me" that I can be, let the gods sort out the rest.

 

[74x12]

Why do I now think less of Christianity?

Basically, because I have now witnessed its dark side, first hand.

Some background: I was raised as a Christian. I was baptised as an infant and have a set of godparents, I went to a church school, and occasionally went to Sunday school. My personal moral system is very much inspired by the teachings and example of Christ.

However, when I became old enough to understand what Christianity was about and that it weren’t necessarily so, I became an atheist. In time my atheism developed, becoming more and more sophisticated as I progressed through school and into university. I didn’t hate Christianity or anything like that; I just thought it was not for me, and not something I could never believe in.

I came to God in my mid-twenties. By then I’d had first-hand experience of a mysterious higher being so made the leap of faith that if there were higher beings then there must be a Supreme Being – God. But there are other reasons that I believe in a Supreme Being, although my conception of the Supreme Being is more like Brahman in Hinduism than the Abrahamic God. I would currently consider myself a deist and would say I am overwhelmingly convinced of the existence of God.

Basically, my experience of Christians and Christianity had always been positive. Until recent events…

For a long time now I have been in two competing minds about the nature of Jesus. I hold both of these as being possible and they exist alongside each other although I currently favour First Mind. Think of it as being like a set of old-fashioned weighing scales in my conscience. I’ve been wavering between the two versions of reality for a while now. Currently they are much more balanced in favour of First Mind more than they were before recent events. To say the least…

First Mind: We are all parts of a computer simulation and Jesus was a show put on for various reasons by The Simulation, for reasons about which we can only speculate. But God still exists, but he is outside of The Simulation. In this version of reality The Simulation communicates with me. I do not claim to have any special relationship with God but do claim a special relationship with The Simulation.

Second Mind: We are not in a computer simulation and Jesus truly was the Son of God, and the account in the gospels is true and he will some day return to Earth, etc. and in this version of reality I am mentally ill and need to acknowledge Christ as my Lord and Saviour by undergoing adult baptism.

Because I am in two minds about him I would therefore say I am agnostic about Jesus. I cannot therefore meaningfully accept him as my Lord and Saviour and become a Christian myself.

I once explained this agnosticism to a nice Christian lady and she understood and respected it and said she’d pray for me to see the light whether I liked it or not! Now, maybe she thought that by not declaring Christ to be my Lord and Saviour I will go to hell or maybe she didn’t, I do not know. I didn’t venture to ask. However, the point is she was concerned for me and I don’t think she considered me evil. Surely, one prays for sinners, not for evil people?

I then made a post on these forums enquiring about the anti-Christ (I’m interested in Christology and theology in general). I mentioned my agnosticism pertaining to Christ, and was basically told (through implication) that I was an anti-Christ and therefore evil – in the same category as those who do things that are actually evil, such as murder, harm, and abuse other humans…

Now, don’t get me wrong, that’s totally cool. Believe what you want to believe. I don’t care. But there is now absolutely no way I will become a Christian, whereas before this it may have been possible at some future point depending on how my life might have played out. Who knows. But now almost all the weights on the scales of my conscience are now weighing down on the side that makes them say “yes” to Simulation Theory and therefore “no” to Christianity. They have never before been so weighted down on one side and I don’t see them shifting anytime soon.

That was the first time in my life I have ever personally encountered what I now think of as being the dark side of Christianity first hand, having only ever been personally exposed to its light side.

Has this diminished my respect for Christianity? Not for it as a whole, only for certain tendencies within it. Has it made me more wary of all Christians? Wary until I know they don’t consider me evil, yes. I don’t mind being called a sinner, but calling me evil is something else and something I will always take exception to.

You are not an antichrist. If we read 1 John 4, we see that antichrists are actually spirits. These are spiritual entities that inspire false prophets to teach false doctrines about counterfeit christs rather than the true Christ.

I'm sorry if some Christians have called you an antichrist; because they don't know what they're talking about.

 

[Muffled]

Why do I now think less of Christianity?

Basically, because I have now witnessed its dark side, first hand.

Some background: I was raised as a Christian. I was baptised as an infant and have a set of godparents, I went to a church school, and occasionally went to Sunday school. My personal moral system is very much inspired by the teachings and example of Christ.

However, when I became old enough to understand what Christianity was about and that it weren’t necessarily so, I became an atheist. In time my atheism developed, becoming more and more sophisticated as I progressed through school and into university. I didn’t hate Christianity or anything like that; I just thought it was not for me, and not something I could never believe in.

I came to God in my mid-twenties. By then I’d had first-hand experience of a mysterious higher being so made the leap of faith that if there were higher beings then there must be a Supreme Being – God. But there are other reasons that I believe in a Supreme Being, although my conception of the Supreme Being is more like Brahman in Hinduism than the Abrahamic God. I would currently consider myself a deist and would say I am overwhelmingly convinced of the existence of God.

Basically, my experience of Christians and Christianity had always been positive. Until recent events…

For a long time now I have been in two competing minds about the nature of Jesus. I hold both of these as being possible and they exist alongside each other although I currently favour First Mind. Think of it as being like a set of old-fashioned weighing scales in my conscience. I’ve been wavering between the two versions of reality for a while now. Currently they are much more balanced in favour of First Mind more than they were before recent events. To say the least…

First Mind: We are all parts of a computer simulation and Jesus was a show put on for various reasons by The Simulation, for reasons about which we can only speculate. But God still exists, but he is outside of The Simulation. In this version of reality The Simulation communicates with me. I do not claim to have any special relationship with God but do claim a special relationship with The Simulation.

Second Mind: We are not in a computer simulation and Jesus truly was the Son of God, and the account in the gospels is true and he will some day return to Earth, etc. and in this version of reality I am mentally ill and need to acknowledge Christ as my Lord and Saviour by undergoing adult baptism.

Because I am in two minds about him I would therefore say I am agnostic about Jesus. I cannot therefore meaningfully accept him as my Lord and Saviour and become a Christian myself.

I once explained this agnosticism to a nice Christian lady and she understood and respected it and said she’d pray for me to see the light whether I liked it or not! Now, maybe she thought that by not declaring Christ to be my Lord and Saviour I will go to hell or maybe she didn’t, I do not know. I didn’t venture to ask. However, the point is she was concerned for me and I don’t think she considered me evil. Surely, one prays for sinners, not for evil people?

I then made a post on these forums enquiring about the anti-Christ (I’m interested in Christology and theology in general). I mentioned my agnosticism pertaining to Christ, and was basically told (through implication) that I was an anti-Christ and therefore evil – in the same category as those who do things that are actually evil, such as murder, harm, and abuse other humans…

Now, don’t get me wrong, that’s totally cool. Believe what you want to believe. I don’t care. But there is now absolutely no way I will become a Christian, whereas before this it may have been possible at some future point depending on how my life might have played out. Who knows. But now almost all the weights on the scales of my conscience are now weighing down on the side that makes them say “yes” to Simulation Theory and therefore “no” to Christianity. They have never before been so weighted down on one side and I don’t see them shifting anytime soon.

That was the first time in my life I have ever personally encountered what I now think of as being the dark side of Christianity first hand, having only ever been personally exposed to its light side.

Has this diminished my respect for Christianity? Not for it as a whole, only for certain tendencies within it. Has it made me more wary of all Christians? Wary until I know they don’t consider me evil, yes. I don’t mind being called a sinner, but calling me evil is something else and something I will always take exception to.

So let me get this straight. I believe some people called you evil so you considered that to be evil so what they consider evil must be good. Is that how it goes? Somehow for me that doesn't make sense.I don't see how you can base your beliefs on other people's beliefs without finding out whether those beliefs make sense or not.

I believe I can put your mind at ease. If you believe in sin then you are evil. If you have repented sin then you are good. The question then becomes whether you can do good that you want to do and the answer is that you can't unless you have Jesus as Lord and Savior. So the bottom line is that you are still evil even though you don't want to be.

 

[Muffled]

According to some ancient astronaut theorists, your idea that we are a computer simulation is not as far fetched as it first may seem. Not only is it a plausible idea but also a very possible one that would go far in explaining the true origins of earth and the human species.

I believe a computer simulation can have data and images but no substance. We have substance. Now Heaven is more like a simulation in that there is no substance but only data and images.

 

[Muffled]

I used to believe I had god within me, very much so

But later on I found out that it wasn't God but something else

I believe that requires explanation. Something else is too vague.

 

[Eddi]

I believe some people called you evil so you considered that to be evil so what they consider evil must be good. Is that how it goes?

No, some people called me evil and I'm pretty sure I'm not (although I don't claim to be perfect, far from it, I know I have my flaws, as do all people) so from this I learnt that what people consider evil may not necessarily be actually evil according to my belief system. I'm pretty sure those who think I'm evil would agree with me that certain people are evil - such as murderers etc. so no, I don't think that what they think is good is evil or what they think is evil is good

 

[Eddi]

I believe that requires explanation. Something else is too vague.

Gladly, I posted this earlier in this thread:

I believe this reality we are all in and all people are parts of a “computer” simulation – which I call “The Simulation”

I believe The Simulation communicates with me and that I am an agent of The Simulation

It does this through a thing called Butterfly – which is a system of communication through which The Simulation communicates with me by responding to my inner voice using touch

Where it touches me on my body according to what I’ve thought is how it indicates Yes or No, etc. to anything I might ask it

This began in I think 2004 and is the reason I’ve been detained on psychiatric hospitals three times in my life and have been diagnosed as “schizophrenic”

I went through a phase in which I thought Butterfly was God and reasoned that if that was the case then I must be Christ!

But I no longer believe that!

I don't believe that I'm anything from scripture or to have any special relationship with God

That is how I have had (and continue to have) first-hand experience of a being who is greater than me – the being who controls The Simulation

 

[Eddi]

I believe a computer simulation can have data and images but no substance. We have substance. Now Heaven is more like a simulation in that there is no substance but only data and images.

To clarify: I don't believe the computers in question are anything like what we can even begin to imagine, I use it as a metaphor for advanced humanoid technology

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I used to believe I had god within me, very much so. But later on I found out that it wasn't God but something else

Same here. What I had at one time considered to be the indwelling Holy Spirit turned out to be a feeling created by a very charismatic preacher from my military days and my introduction to Christianity.

Once I was discharged and returned home. I was unable to find another preacher that could arouse such sentiments, and I eventually realized that I had not been experiencing a god, but rather, my own mind responding to a gifted speaker.

God dwelt in the darkness.....before He created light that had to be a profound darkness not even a candle and nothing to see even if you had one

"In the beginning there was nothing. God said, ‘Let there be light!'and there was light. There was still nothing, but you could see it a whole lot better." - Ellen DeGeneres

As long as you consider yourself cut off form the divine there are problems.

I have no relationship with whatever it is that is being called the divine, and it has created no problems for me.

By this website saying the Bible "contains....harmful teachings," the authors are engaging in interpretation.

Yes, they are, as is anybody who reads and attempts to understand what written or spoken words mean.

Do you have any problem with people calling the Bible the good book? Isn't that also an interpretation?

How about saying that God is good and Satan evil? Don't you have to interpret the words and deeds attributed to each to come to such conclusions.

The Bible and the Christian church are harmful to atheists, albeit much less so these days than the days when atheists had been trashed to the point that they were considered morally unfit to teach, coach, adopt, give expert testimony, or serve on juries. If you are interested, here is the argument: It's lengthy, so I've tucked it away in a spoiler :

Spoiler: atheophobia

Consider these excerpts from the Christian Bible:

[1] "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.' They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good" - Psalm 14:1

[2] "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, and all and the enemy of a good god." - Revelation 21:8

[3]"Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"- 2 *Corinthians 6:14

[4] "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ." - 1 John 2:22

[5] "Whoever is not with me is against me" - Luke 11:23

[6] "They are puzzled that you do not continue running with them in the same decadent course of debauchery, so they speak abusively of you" – 1 Peter 4:4

Altogether, those scriptures depict unbelievers as lying, corrupt, vile, decadent, debauched, abominable, wicked, godless vessels in the service of darkness and evil, not one of which does any good, and fit to be burned alive forever as the moral equivalent of murderers and whoremongers, and the declared enemy of a good god.

And what are the consequences of that teaching? At one time, unbelievers could be legally tortured or killed. Until recently, they were defined as too immoral to be allowed to adopt, teach, coach, or serve on juries. Even now, it is very difficult for an atheist to be elected to a public office.

Here's a bit more of that atheophobic message

[6] Wartime poster: "Godless atheists threaten Christian America" http://0.tqn.com/d/atheism/1/7/U/2/3/The-Atheist-e.jpg

[7] Billboard: "Attention lunatic atheists and their lawyers. Anti-God is anti-American. Anti-American is treason. Traitors lead to civil war" https://blueollie.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/christian-billboard-one.jpg

[8] "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God."- American President George H. W. Bush

[9] "Settle it therefore in your minds, as a maxim never to be effaced or forgotten, that atheism is an inhuman, bloody, ferocious system, equally hostile to every useful restraint and to every virtuous affection; that, leaving nothing above us to excite awe, nor round us to awaken tenderness, it wages war with heaven and with earth: its first object is to dethrone God, its next to destroy man." - Rev. Robert Hall

[10] Message board poster: "[Atheists] constantly think of death and killing, the death and killing of Christians and Christianity, the death and killing of innocent babies who never harmed them or anyone else, the death and killing of any taboos that interfere with morality thriving. In their world it is "anything goes" if you feel like it do it. In fact, their creed is almost exactly that of the Church of Satan's. Gee, how coincidental is THAT?"

And the cumulative consequence of all of this bigotry and hate speech? :

NEW REPORT CASTS ATHEISTS AS "OTHERS" BEYOND MORALITY AND COMMUNITY IN AMERICA freethoughtassociation.org -&nbspThis website is for sale! -&nbspcenter for inquiry michigan freethought atheists atheism freethinkers humanism humanists agnosticism Resources and Information.

"Atheists have become the ultimate scapegoats in our culture... but the news isn't all bad! A new study by the University of Minnesota Department of Sociology has found that Americans perceive Atheists as the group least likely to embrace common values and a shared vision of society. Worse yet, Atheists are identified as the cohort other Americans do not want to see their offspring marrying!

[snip]

"Researchers concluded: "Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in 'sharing their vision of American society.' Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry." Disturbingly, Atheists are "seen as a threat to the American way of life by a large portion of the American public," despite being only 3% of the U.S. population according to Dr. Edgell, associate sociology professor and the lead researcher in the project."

Do you really want to tell a hospital full of people raised to think like that that, for example, that you are an atheist when you are such an easy target of people trained to see you as the enemy of a good god?

there is no where that Christ Jesus ever said to call another Christinan be it a brother or sister Evil.

Nobody is quicker to point out which Christians are going to hell than other Christians

If you believe in sin then you are evil. If you have repented sin then you are good.

I one doesn't believe in sin, then there is no need to repent it.

 

[Workman]

Why do I now think less of Christianity?

Basically, because I have now witnessed its dark side, first hand.

Some background: I was raised as a Christian. I was baptised as an infant and have a set of godparents, I went to a church school, and occasionally went to Sunday school. My personal moral system is very much inspired by the teachings and example of Christ.

However, when I became old enough to understand what Christianity was about and that it weren’t necessarily so, I became an atheist. In time my atheism developed, becoming more and more sophisticated as I progressed through school and into university. I didn’t hate Christianity or anything like that; I just thought it was not for me, and not something I could never believe in.

I came to God in my mid-twenties. By then I’d had first-hand experience of a mysterious higher being so made the leap of faith that if there were higher beings then there must be a Supreme Being – God. But there are other reasons that I believe in a Supreme Being, although my conception of the Supreme Being is more like Brahman in Hinduism than the Abrahamic God. I would currently consider myself a deist and would say I am overwhelmingly convinced of the existence of God.

Basically, my experience of Christians and Christianity had always been positive. Until recent events…

For a long time now I have been in two competing minds about the nature of Jesus. I hold both of these as being possible and they exist alongside each other although I currently favour First Mind. Think of it as being like a set of old-fashioned weighing scales in my conscience. I’ve been wavering between the two versions of reality for a while now. Currently they are much more balanced in favour of First Mind more than they were before recent events. To say the least…

First Mind: We are all parts of a computer simulation and Jesus was a show put on for various reasons by The Simulation, for reasons about which we can only speculate. But God still exists, but he is outside of The Simulation. In this version of reality The Simulation communicates with me. I do not claim to have any special relationship with God but do claim a special relationship with The Simulation.

Second Mind: We are not in a computer simulation and Jesus truly was the Son of God, and the account in the gospels is true and he will some day return to Earth, etc. and in this version of reality I am mentally ill and need to acknowledge Christ as my Lord and Saviour by undergoing adult baptism.

Because I am in two minds about him I would therefore say I am agnostic about Jesus. I cannot therefore meaningfully accept him as my Lord and Saviour and become a Christian myself.

I once explained this agnosticism to a nice Christian lady and she understood and respected it and said she’d pray for me to see the light whether I liked it or not! Now, maybe she thought that by not declaring Christ to be my Lord and Saviour I will go to hell or maybe she didn’t, I do not know. I didn’t venture to ask. However, the point is she was concerned for me and I don’t think she considered me evil. Surely, one prays for sinners, not for evil people?

I then made a post on these forums enquiring about the anti-Christ (I’m interested in Christology and theology in general). I mentioned my agnosticism pertaining to Christ, and was basically told (through implication) that I was an anti-Christ and therefore evil – in the same category as those who do things that are actually evil, such as murder, harm, and abuse other humans…

Now, don’t get me wrong, that’s totally cool. Believe what you want to believe. I don’t care. But there is now absolutely no way I will become a Christian, whereas before this it may have been possible at some future point depending on how my life might have played out. Who knows. But now almost all the weights on the scales of my conscience are now weighing down on the side that makes them say “yes” to Simulation Theory and therefore “no” to Christianity. They have never before been so weighted down on one side and I don’t see them shifting anytime soon.

That was the first time in my life I have ever personally encountered what I now think of as being the dark side of Christianity first hand, having only ever been personally exposed to its light side.

Has this diminished my respect for Christianity? Not for it as a whole, only for certain tendencies within it. Has it made me more wary of all Christians? Wary until I know they don’t consider me evil, yes. I don’t mind being called a sinner, but calling me evil is something else and something I will always take exception to.

Sometimes I find things always happening for a reason, like there are reasons why a certain pathway
Creates itself for you..but it doesn’t mean for its decision to final whilst still walking on its pathway..you have yet not come to its destination(purpose). Having two personalities is a good thing..it means your awarenesses is more in definitions in things looking quite odd/ or why? This is a handy tool to have with you..I would use it cautiously in your journey, for me that is your ‘True self’ hidden deep inside you. Go well in your Journey, keep a strong hold on your True self it is your Protector on your walk..peace be with you.
God Bliss You!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

By this website saying the Bible "contains....harmful teachings," the authors are engaging in interpretation.

Yes, they are, as is anybody who reads and attempts to understand what written or spoken words mean.

Do you have any problem with people calling the Bible the good book? Isn't that also an interpretation?

How about saying that God is good and Satan evil? Don't you have to interpret the words and deeds attributed to each to come to such conclusions.

The Bible and the Christian church are harmful to atheists, albeit much less so these days than the days when atheists had been trashed to the point that they were considered morally unfit to teach, coach, adopt, give expert testimony, or serve on juries. If you are interested, here is the argument: It's lengthy, so I've tucked it away in a spoiler :

You forgot to add the rest of my post, which explains my statement. (Isn’t that called a ‘quote mine’?)

According to Luke 10:21, only the "Father, Lord of heaven and Earth" reveals what His Word teaches accurately.

Do you think they have the "Father" helping them? Or maybe 'hiding' proper understanding?

Well?

A person hungering for spiritual truth, when they come across such an obvious contradiction (“God is love” vs. ‘He burns people forever in Hellfire’), they’ll search for the correct answer....not just assume the Scriptures are hogwash, but rather, assume the teaching is adulterated. That’s what Newton did, and he uncovered a lot of false church dogma.

And, he worshipped the Father, solely. So the Father (Yahweh / Jehovah is His Name) was willing to help him.

 

[2ndpillar]

Being evil is about causing harm or pain to another being - an evil act is wrong because of what it does

Sinning is about breaking a rule, or a commandment - a sin is wrong because it beaks a certain code that is considered authoritative

Not all sins are evil

E.g. doubting Christ may be a sin but it is not evil as who exactly does it actually hurt??? Does it really injure God??? If so, how???

Which commandment breaking given by Yeshua in Matthew 19:18 does not cause harm to your neighbor? Murder, stealing, false witnessing, taking your neighbor's wife, etc?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why do I now think less of Christianity?
Basically, because I have now witnessed its dark side, first hand.
Some background: I was raised as a Christian. I was baptised as an infant and have a set of godparents, I went to a church school, and occasionally went to Sunday school. My personal moral system is very much inspired by the teachings and example of Christ.

However, when I became old enough to understand what Christianity was about and that it weren’t necessarily so, I became an atheist. In time my atheism developed, becoming more and more sophisticated as I progressed through school and into university. I didn’t hate Christianity or anything like that; I just thought it was not for me, and not something I could never believe in.
I came to God in my mid-twenties. By then I’d had first-hand experience of a mysterious higher being so made the leap of faith that if there were higher beings then there must be a Supreme Being – God. But there are other reasons that I believe in a Supreme Being, although my conception of the Supreme Being is more like Brahman in Hinduism than the Abrahamic God. I would currently consider myself a deist and would say I am overwhelmingly convinced of the existence of God.
Basically, my experience of Christians and Christianity had always been positive. Until recent events…
For a long time now I have been in two competing minds about the nature of Jesus. I hold both of these as being possible and they exist alongside each other although I currently favour First Mind. Think of it as being like a set of old-fashioned weighing scales in my conscience. I’ve been wavering between the two versions of reality for a while now. Currently they are much more balanced in favour of First Mind more than they were before recent events. To say the least…
First Mind: We are all parts of a computer simulation and Jesus was a show put on for various reasons by The Simulation, for reasons about which we can only speculate. But God still exists, but he is outside of The Simulation. In this version of reality The Simulation communicates with me. I do not claim to have any special relationship with God but do claim a special relationship with The Simulation.
Second Mind: We are not in a computer simulation and Jesus truly was the Son of God, and the account in the gospels is true and he will some day return to Earth, etc. and in this version of reality I am mentally ill and need to acknowledge Christ as my Lord and Saviour by undergoing adult baptism.
Because I am in two minds about him I would therefore say I am agnostic about Jesus. I cannot therefore meaningfully accept him as my Lord and Saviour and become a Christian myself.
I once explained this agnosticism to a nice Christian lady and she understood and respected it and said she’d pray for me to see the light whether I liked it or not! Now, maybe she thought that by not declaring Christ to be my Lord and Saviour I will go to hell or maybe she didn’t, I do not know. I didn’t venture to ask. However, the point is she was concerned for me and I don’t think she considered me evil. Surely, one prays for sinners, not for evil people?
I then made a post on these forums enquiring about the anti-Christ (I’m interested in Christology and theology in general). I mentioned my agnosticism pertaining to Christ, and was basically told (through implication) that I was an anti-Christ and therefore evil – in the same category as those who do things that are actually evil, such as murder, harm, and abuse other humans…
Now, don’t get me wrong, that’s totally cool. Believe what you want to believe. I don’t care. But there is now absolutely no way I will become a Christian, whereas before this it may have been possible at some future point depending on how my life might have played out. Who knows. But now almost all the weights on the scales of my conscience are now weighing down on the side that makes them say “yes” to Simulation Theory and therefore “no” to Christianity. They have never before been so weighted down on one side and I don’t see them shifting anytime soon.
That was the first time in my life I have ever personally encountered what I now think of as being the dark side of Christianity first hand, having only ever been personally exposed to its light side.
Has this diminished my respect for Christianity? Not for it as a whole, only for certain tendencies within it. Has it made me more wary of all Christians? Wary until I know they don’t consider me evil, yes. I don’t mind being called a sinner, but calling me evil is something else and something I will always take exception to.

First of all, I find there is a BIG difference between Christendom and 1st-century Christianity.
Christendom developed after the first century ended - Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30.
Christendom is just so-called Christian and mostly in name only.
For example: there is No infant baptism in Scripture, so you were baptized as part of Christendom.
Even Jesus said in the 7th chapter of Matthew that MANY would come in his name but prove false.
Thus, what you experience is the ' dark side ' of Christendom.
Genuine ' wheat ' Christians follow Jesus' New commandment of John 13:34-35.
They have the same self-sacrificing love for other as Jesus has.
In other words, followers of Jesus now love neighbor ' more ' than self. More than the Golden Rule.

 

[Eddi]

Which commandment breaking given by Yeshua in Matthew 19:18 does not cause harm to your neighbor? Murder, stealing, false witnessing, taking your neighbor's wife, etc?

Jesus was OK, I have no problem with him or what he says in that scripture you quoted, I agree that all of those things are both sinful and evil.

But I still believe that sinfulness and evil are separate things, although a thing may be both evil and sinful. To explore this, let’s look at the Ten Commandments which, let’s remember, were handed down by God:

1) You shall have no other Gods but me.
2) You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
3) You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God
4) You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.

According to The Bible violating these are sins but would doing so be truly evil? I'd say no. Breaking them is sinful but not evil as doing so harms no one.

10) You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour.

I don't think violating the tenth commandment is truly evil either, although envy is certainly not a virtue, I'd class it as a form of unhappiness and would agree that it's a bad thing, but I wouldn't call it evil.

5 Respect your father and mother
6 You must not commit murder
7 You must not commit adultery
8 You must not steal
9 You must not give false evidence against your neighbour

Respecting your mother and father, that's good by me and I'd definitely say that it would be evil to break commandments six to nine as these things harm others.

I hope I've successfully illustrated how I believe evil and sinfulness are separate things.

 

[2ndpillar]

Jesus was OK, I have no problem with him or what he says in that scripture you quoted, I agree that all of those things are both sinful and evil.

But I still believe that sinfulness and evil are separate things, although a thing may be both evil and sinful. To explore this, let’s look at the Ten Commandments which, let’s remember, were handed down by God:

1) You shall have no other Gods but me.
2) You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.
3) You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God
4) You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy.

According to The Bible violating these are sins but would doing so be truly evil? I'd say no. Breaking them is sinful but not evil as doing so harms no one.

10) You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour.

I don't think violating the tenth commandment is truly evil either, although envy is certainly not a virtue, I'd class it as a form of unhappiness and would agree that it's a bad thing, but I wouldn't call it evil.

5 Respect your father and mother
6 You must not commit murder
7 You must not commit adultery
8 You must not steal
9 You must not give false evidence against your neighbour

Respecting your mother and father, that's good by me and I'd definitely say that it would be evil to break commandments six to nine as these things harm others.

I hope I've successfully illustrated how I believe evil and sinfulness are separate things.

Okay, so it is okay with you to have false gods, graven images, and take the name of the LORD in vain, and doing so would not be listed as evil. As for the Sabbath, that was a sign between Israel and their God, and was only to be kept by those who wanted to worship God (Isaiah 56:6). I suppose you do not claim to be of Israel, though they be as the sands of the sea (Isaiah 10:22), and the worshipping of the "dragon" of Revelation 13:4, as done by the "Christians", would be fine with you. Those that worship the beast and his "dragon", don't harm others, they harm themselves (Revelation 14:10).

Isaiah 10:22 22Though your people be like the sand by the sea, Israel, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.

 

[Sky Rivers]

Why do I now think less of Christianity?

Basically, because I have now witnessed its dark side, first hand.

Some background: I was raised as a Christian. I was baptised as an infant and have a set of godparents, I went to a church school, and occasionally went to Sunday school. My personal moral system is very much inspired by the teachings and example of Christ.

However, when I became old enough to understand what Christianity was about and that it weren’t necessarily so, I became an atheist. In time my atheism developed, becoming more and more sophisticated as I progressed through school and into university. I didn’t hate Christianity or anything like that; I just thought it was not for me, and not something I could never believe in.

I came to God in my mid-twenties. By then I’d had first-hand experience of a mysterious higher being so made the leap of faith that if there were higher beings then there must be a Supreme Being – God. But there are other reasons that I believe in a Supreme Being, although my conception of the Supreme Being is more like Brahman in Hinduism than the Abrahamic God. I would currently consider myself a deist and would say I am overwhelmingly convinced of the existence of God.

Basically, my experience of Christians and Christianity had always been positive. Until recent events…

For a long time now I have been in two competing minds about the nature of Jesus. I hold both of these as being possible and they exist alongside each other although I currently favour First Mind. Think of it as being like a set of old-fashioned weighing scales in my conscience. I’ve been wavering between the two versions of reality for a while now. Currently they are much more balanced in favour of First Mind more than they were before recent events. To say the least…

First Mind: We are all parts of a computer simulation and Jesus was a show put on for various reasons by The Simulation, for reasons about which we can only speculate. But God still exists, but he is outside of The Simulation. In this version of reality The Simulation communicates with me. I do not claim to have any special relationship with God but do claim a special relationship with The Simulation.

Second Mind: We are not in a computer simulation and Jesus truly was the Son of God, and the account in the gospels is true and he will some day return to Earth, etc. and in this version of reality I am mentally ill and need to acknowledge Christ as my Lord and Saviour by undergoing adult baptism.

Because I am in two minds about him I would therefore say I am agnostic about Jesus. I cannot therefore meaningfully accept him as my Lord and Saviour and become a Christian myself.

I once explained this agnosticism to a nice Christian lady and she understood and respected it and said she’d pray for me to see the light whether I liked it or not! Now, maybe she thought that by not declaring Christ to be my Lord and Saviour I will go to hell or maybe she didn’t, I do not know. I didn’t venture to ask. However, the point is she was concerned for me and I don’t think she considered me evil. Surely, one prays for sinners, not for evil people?

I then made a post on these forums enquiring about the anti-Christ (I’m interested in Christology and theology in general). I mentioned my agnosticism pertaining to Christ, and was basically told (through implication) that I was an anti-Christ and therefore evil – in the same category as those who do things that are actually evil, such as murder, harm, and abuse other humans…

Now, don’t get me wrong, that’s totally cool. Believe what you want to believe. I don’t care. But there is now absolutely no way I will become a Christian, whereas before this it may have been possible at some future point depending on how my life might have played out. Who knows. But now almost all the weights on the scales of my conscience are now weighing down on the side that makes them say “yes” to Simulation Theory and therefore “no” to Christianity. They have never before been so weighted down on one side and I don’t see them shifting anytime soon.

That was the first time in my life I have ever personally encountered what I now think of as being the dark side of Christianity first hand, having only ever been personally exposed to its light side.

Has this diminished my respect for Christianity? Not for it as a whole, only for certain tendencies within it. Has it made me more wary of all Christians? Wary until I know they don’t consider me evil, yes. I don’t mind being called a sinner, but calling me evil is something else and something I will always take exception to.

I find it rather strange to judge an entire religion by the conduct of fallible human beings. Seriously, why? If you’re judging Christianity, why aren’t you judging it by Jesus Christ, who actually followed it?

As for simulation theory, it’s a joke. It’s not based on science, it’s NOT rational. There is ZERO evidence for it being even close to a rational thought, let alone something geeks in Silicon Valley refer to as a “theory”. Frankly, it’s only a little less ridiculous than string theory; you at least might find a sliver of evidence for that... Maybe.

 

[sooda]

You are not an antichrist. If we read 1 John 4, we see that antichrists are actually spirits. These are spiritual entities that inspire false prophets to teach false doctrines about counterfeit christs rather than the true Christ.

I'm sorry if some Christians have called you an antichrist; because they don't know what they're talking about.

Actually, antichrists are those who have heard the message and left the church to work against it.. at least according to scripture.