"I read the news today, oh boy"

[Left Coast]

And, if that's true are they less valid?

Quite obviously, yes. A comforting untruth is not as "valid" as an uncomfortable truth. I don't care if it makes someone feel good to believe racism no longer exists. I want to know if it actually does, based on the evidence - not how the outcome makes me feel.

Depends on the facts you accept, but that's the case for anyone. We're under no duty to accept anything blindly, are we?

Certainly not.

Absolutely? Nah, there are always racists who are in the bleeding heart left and the far right.

Oh great, so you admit your previous statement that there are no racists left in America is incorrect. Thank you.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious, as this is literally the point of everyone's belief system, lol.

LOL no, it literally isn't. The point of many people's belief systems is to have as accurate a view of reality as possible, regardless of how that makes them feel. Part of the growing up process for children is learning to accept that life is often full of painful truths. But once again, thank you for giving us a window into where your head is at emotionally.

 

[Mindmaster]

Oh great, so you admit your previous statement that there are no racists left in America is incorrect. Thank you.

Absolutely? Nah, there are always racists who are in the bleeding heart left and the far right. Can't completely stop it, just like you aren't going to stop stupid. But, for the majority of the population that's true, so it's no longer a government problem other than to deal with hate crimes that barely ever happen.

Poe's Law, boring. Racism requires proof that the majority supports the idea or it cannot be proven to exist. Provide that proof or stop talking about psuedo-facts. Specifically required:

1) Evidence that a majority of Americans support racist views
2) Evidence that they've petitioned politicians to represent them on those views
3) Evidence that those politicians are catering them with any policy with race as the primary concern.
4) Evidence that not only that this has occurred, but occurred endemically in a way where someone couldn't get a fair shake ANYWHERE based on their color. Required to support the "systematic" idea.

I assert such racism doesn't exist because I can't find that evidence. Because some idiot on CNN says it doesn't make it true. I don't know what school you went to, but you don't have to prove a negative condition unless the previous condition was uncertain. The onus is on the people claiming racism rose like a phoenix out of someone's *** the minute Donald Trump got elected. Somehow, I find that difficult to accept. You know like how this racism wasn't a big problem during Obama's term? Please transition me from Jan. 21 2016 when Obama passed Trump the torch and racism came out of the 50 years before that and instantly became a thing. The fact that you believe this at all means you just believe complete and utter trash, lol. (Excluding the obvious prison conversation, but w/e)

 

[Father Heathen]

@Mindmaster Let me get this strait; you're openly admitting that your beliefs are based on cherry picked facts chosen by their emotional palatability? This revelation makes it much easier for others to assess the validity and value of your posts.

@Revoltingest Is this how you form your point of view as well?

 

[Revoltingest]

Flies orbiting around turds (see my last post), and then wonder what's wrong with you because you got better things to do. Might be something to do with the fact that it obviously smells like crap. But, I digress...

I basically view Marxist Intersectionality as the product of poorly educated people, in that every place where it "took off" you have a population that has extremely low levels of capacity to process data. I'm blaming, "no child left behind", for now. I know people who graduated high school with 4th-grade math and reading comprehension. That's what you're dealing with, and it's a damn shame. They've been robbed. Do you think these people regardless of their color got a shot? The rest of the world is educated to college level with none of that "no child" nonsense, and you think you're going to win that competition? Pfft. These are the same people that are getting involved in the silly bleeding heart left. They aren't intellectuals anymore than the Neanderthals were -- it's not revolution, it's devolution. Taking us right back to where we were 150 years in the past.

I don't blame edumacation or the lack thereof for magical thinking.

 

[Left Coast]

Poe's Law, boring. Racism requires proof that the majority supports the idea or it cannot be proven to exist.

How did you arrive at that conclusion? Let's start there, because the remainder of your post was a dovetail from this initial, totally baseless assumption.

To prove racism exists in America, I need to find only one racist. This isn't even getting into the larger conversation about systemic racism. I already schooled you on that in a previous thread a few days ago, and you had nothing substantive to say.

Here in this thread, what I replied to was your initial denial there were any individual racists to be found in America. I don't need to demonstrate anything about what a majority of Americans think to establish that there are racists in America today.

 

[Revoltingest]

@Mindmaster Let me get this strait; you're openly admitting that your beliefs are based on cherry picked facts chosen by their emotional palatability? This revelation makes it much easier for others to assess the validity and value of your posts.

@Revoltingest Is this how you form your point of view as well?

Duh....whuh?
Don't even suggest by question, the attribution of
perceived thought processes of others to me, bub.
Mischief, that is!

Btw, RF didn't notify me to your intended alert to your post.
Staff are pranking us again, eh.

 

[Father Heathen]

@Mindmaster Let me get this strait; you're openly admitting that your beliefs are based on cherry picked facts chosen by their emotional palatability? This revelation makes it much easier for others to assess the validity and value of your posts.

@Revoltingest Is this how you form your point of view as well?

I ask because you appeared to give his assessment of world events your seal of approval, so I was wondering if you also gave this method the same approval; cherry picking facts that fit what he wants to perceive rather than base his perception on a rational, objective look at all of the facts.

 

[Revoltingest]

I ask because you appeared to give his assessment of world events your seal of approval, so I was wondering if you also gave this method the same approval; cherry picking facts that fit what he wants to perceive rather than base his perception on a rational, objective look at all of the facts.

I didn't even know that I had a "seal of approval".
So you really wonder if I believe that bias confirming
cherry picked facts beat rational objective thought?
I won't reward that with an answer.

This time, It's clear why I wasn't alerted to your post.
(It was within the quote function.)

 

[Father Heathen]

Flies orbiting around turds (see my last post), and then wonder what's wrong with you because you got better things to do. Might be something to do with the fact that it obviously smells like crap. But, I digress...

I basically view Marxist Intersectionality as the product of poorly educated people, in that every place where it "took off" you have a population that has extremely low levels of capacity to process data. I'm blaming, "no child left behind", for now. I know people who graduated high school with 4th-grade math and reading comprehension. That's what you're dealing with, and it's a damn shame. They've been robbed. Do you think these people regardless of their color got a shot? The rest of the world is educated to college level with none of that "no child" nonsense, and you think you're going to win that competition? Pfft. These are the same people that are getting involved in the silly bleeding heart left. They aren't intellectuals anymore than the Neanderthals were -- it's not revolution, it's devolution. Taking us right back to where we were 150 years in the past.

There needs to be a "Godwin's Law" formarxism, socialism, etc.

 

[Revoltingest]

There needs to be a "Godwin's Law" formarxism, socialism, etc.

Guess what "Father Heathen's Law" is.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

That is literally, verbatim, an admission that your political views are born not from factual analysis but from avoidance of emotional pain.

And, if that's true are they less valid? (Obviously, it's not. It's not for anyone, but why worry about that whole nasty hyperbole thing.)

Views based on emotional needs rather than reason applied properly to evidence are not valid at all except to those holding them.

And of course, when you make comments such as that there are no fascists or racists, all of your judgments and your ability to make them are suspect.

Racism requires proof that the majority supports the idea or it cannot be proven to exist.

Nope. Racism requires a person to view all members of a particular class, in this case usually all non-whites, as their inferior. Did you see Karen's reaction to a black bird watcher? That's racism. Trump's kung flu slur was racist.

Also, there is no duty to even try to convince the racist that he is one, much less prove anything. When I see, "All lives matter" in the present context, I translate that to, "No, all lives don't matter, but I can't say that out loud." You probably object, but that wouldn't matter. As I said, you've disqualified your opinions on the matter by failing to see and admit that these people have a legitimate complaint worthy of empathy and remedy.

Regarding majorities, how is that relevant? Suppose only 40% of America (or whatever Trump's approval rating is these days) is racist. That's a severely racist nation as the events of the past several weeks reveal. Those people aren't protesting for nothing. All of this violence and antipathy are the natural byproduct of racist policies and attitudes. America earned that, and for as long as she refuses to listen to these complaints, she can expect more of the same again. Your choice.

You know like how this racism wasn't a big problem during Obama's term?

Sure it was. Republican voters hated Obama for being black. Trump didn't create racism in America. He fanned its flames.That's why America burned recently, but not under Obama.

Racism has always been a prominent feature of America. You would see that if the idea wasn't uncomfortable for you. You wouldn't need to filter out the evidence. You would be able to countenance it dispassionately and make accurate judgments about how present, destructive, and unfair racism is.

 

[Mindmaster]

Sure it was. Republican voters hated Obama for being black. Trump didn't create racism in America. He fanned its flames.That's why America burned recently, but not under Obama.

Racism has always been a prominent feature of America. You would see that if the idea wasn't uncomfortable for you. You wouldn't need to filter out the evidence. You would be able to countenance it dispassionately and make accurate judgments about how present, destructive, and unfair racism is.

Uhm, Obama's voters were Trump's voters in many, many, cases... I assure you, sorry to break the news. I supported Obama on his first term, though not his second, I didn't vote. Most of the people I knew who voted from Trump last time voted for Obama previously.

I get it... everything is Trump's fault... even when it's someone else's...

No, there is no systematic racism, just habits of urban folks getting into lots of trouble for reasons and getting repeated convicted and stacked on because they were already on probation or supervision which makes their previous charges go to the max. Most of this was the result of Biden's lovely zero-tolerance crime bill in 1994, but who's gonna mention it here.

Just because something appears to be true doesn't mean it is, but in this case, it's simply that a certain segment of the urban population is prone to making mistakes and the law is exactly the same for them as anyone else. If I did it, I get the slap too, so what's not fair about it? Fairness isn't the problem, maybe the severity is something we can agree on.

The majority of the population still isn't racist, and you probably don't even know one IRL. I certainly have no associates that are, even in a minor way. I'm ceasing to think anyone here actually knows what racism means. Racism isn't, "You feel oppressed or you were treated unfairly." It's BEING treated unfairly with evidence. There is a distinction... Is it ever going to be completely gone? I doubt it. Is it going to be 99.9% gone? Already there. It's just a ghost that haunts your mind, it's not real.

 

[crossfire]

<...>
Aggressive anti-mask customers are forcing some restaurants to shut dining rooms to protect employees from abuse
<...>

Well, you have to admit that it's difficult to eat in a restaurant dining room while wearing a mask.

 

[sun rise]

Rather be wrong, than miserable. But, since I can have my cake and eat it too here: (We're about at 250 deaths/day now.)

Pain and suffering are not important to you. Got it.

people like you have never met an actual racist or fascist.

I was called names by a bigot because I'm Jewish. Does that count?

One should seek out non-news sources that present a larger & less angry picture.

Most of the media sensationalizes but not all. NPR/PBS is much better than other sources. But in general, adjusting for sensationalism is worthwhile.

Racism requires proof that the majority supports the idea or it cannot be proven to exist.

Making up stuff, I see. If 49.9% of the populace is racist that does not count in your book.

Well, you have to admit that it's difficult to eat in a restaurant dining room while wearing a mask.

People are being asked to wear masks when not actually eating. That's not rocket science and is perfectly reasonable.

 

[sun rise]

To respond to @Revoltingest 's point about the media, here's one headline

WATCH: ‘Park ranger Karen’ tells Asian family ‘you can’t be in this country’ after scolding them for bringing dog on hiking trail

The video is included so people can judge for themselves. I mentally adjust the headline to remove "Karen" because it's not something I like. The headline then becomes the quote from the Ranger.

WATCH: ‘Park ranger’ tells Asian family ‘you can’t be in this country’ after scolding them for bringing dog on hiking trail

So my question to @Revoltingest is: How would you modify the headline or story to be better?

 

[sun rise]

This also floated through my browser illustrating the difference between reporting news in a calm and useful way and using clickbait headlines. I need to know that problems and symptoms can last longer than the initial infection and apparent resolution. I want to know it in a straight-forward non-fear forward, non-clickbait way. The last two stories do that focusing on different parts of the puzzle.

Young Woman Names All Her “Terrifying” Covid-19 Symptoms That “Medical Science Doesn't Know What To Do With”

Think a 'mild' case of Covid-19 doesn’t sound so bad? Think again

COVID-19 Can Last for Several Months
The disease’s “long-haulers” have endured relentless waves of debilitating symptoms—and disbelief from doctors and friends.

Coronavirus: Why surviving the virus may be just the beginning

 

[Revoltingest]

Most of the media sensationalizes but not all. NPR/PBS is much better than other sources. But in general, adjusting for sensationalism is worthwhile.

Yes, NPR & PBS are better.
I listen to/watch both.

 

[Revoltingest]

To respond to @Revoltingest 's point about the media, here's one headline

WATCH: ‘Park ranger Karen’ tells Asian family ‘you can’t be in this country’ after scolding them for bringing dog on hiking trail

The video is included so people can judge for themselves. I mentally adjust the headline to remove "Karen" because it's not something I like. The headline then becomes the quote from the Ranger.

WATCH: ‘Park ranger’ tells Asian family ‘you can’t be in this country’ after scolding them for bringing dog on hiking trail

So my question to @Revoltingest is: How would you modify the headline or story to be better?

It's not the headline by itself.
Tis the choice to report agenda serving stories in preference to others.
It's not so much wrong, as something to be aware of...lest one be wrongly influenced.

Btw, I've run across 1 rude park ranger, but yours takes the cake.
We've been on the receiving end of that kind of anti-asian racism.
Both black & white folk supplied it.....a whole rainbow of hate.

 

[Mindmaster]

Pain and suffering are not important to you. Got it.

Don't know why putting words in my mouth is all the rage, but yeah, no.

I was called names by a bigot because I'm Jewish. Does that count?

Maybe, depends on the context. People use racial slurs all of the time when they're mad, but still don't practice racism in their lives -- they're just mad, etc. Racism is more than speech in my view, and speech alone isn't enough. People say a lot of dumb crap when they're angry, it's not really always reflective of their held beliefs.

I
Most of the media sensationalizes but not all. NPR/PBS is much better than other sources. But in general, adjusting for sensationalism is worthwhile.

I don't trust NPR because they're obviously slanted, much like I don't trust Fox News, either. NPR has been running plenty of partisan bits these days, they're not the bastion of unbiased reporting they were. No one is really unhappier than me in that regard... They used to be highly neutral, and I loved it.

Making up stuff, I see. If 49.9% of the populace is racist that does not count in your book.

It doesn't matter if they're racist, so much as if they are forcing that view on others in some way and someone is acting on it. If this much of the population supported this there'd certainly be candidates coming out in favor of it. That's not happening, obviously, so the number has to be way, way, lower. But, facts matter I guess...

Sorry, Everyone, America Isn’t That Racist

"Ku Klux Klan membership has shrunk drastically from millions a century ago to fewer than 5,000 today. The Black Panthers are essentially extinct."

"Consider, for example, that in 1958 a mere 4 percent of Americans approved of interracial marriage. By 2013, that number had grown to 87 percent. In 2012 these once-taboo unions hit an all-time high."

I've seen those numbers elsewhere, but if 87% consider a different race marriage perfectly OK for them there is very little racism. The KKK is about the "softest" racist organization there is, compared to something like the neo-Nazi's, etc. Anyway, I find focusing on racism presently very myopic due to the obvious lack of any of it going on.

 

[sun rise]

Don't know why putting words in my mouth is all the rage, but yeah, no.

Your words were only about the death toll.

People use racial slurs all of the time when they're mad, but still don't practice racism in their lives -- they're just mad

People's real feelings come out under intense emotion. People might consciously believe they are not racist but if anger causes them to utter racist statements, they are not perfect.

these once-taboo unions hit an all-time high."

Yes I agree - things are getting better. The difference between the late 1960's and today is notable as I know from living both. The path is not yet done. We have yet to achieve equality where skin color is no more notable than eye color.