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I think this is the procedure to win at casnios

evane123

Active Member
I think going to a 50/50 betting game and betting in this procedure will make the statistical chance of wining extremely large compared to 50/50
1 win
1 lose
2 lose
4 lose
8 lose
16 win
1 win
1
I think in the procedure above the chance of losing the bet is near 6 percent.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Not sure I'm following this, Evan. If you're talking about doubling your bet every time you lose, and then going back to your original bet after you win, that's actually a pretty old strategy.

If that's what you mean, betting this way doesn't effect the odds. There are variations of this strategy that can help you lose more slowly :p, which is a benefit since they allow you to play longer, but no matter how you slice it the house still has the advantage.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Doubling the bet every time until one wins is a mathematically unsound strategy, and can be proven with expected value mathematics. Casinos know mathematics, and use it to their advantage.

E[x] = Σ[x(px)] from i to n.

By doubling the bet on a loss, and walking a way on a win, you increase your chances of winning, but when you lose, you lose so badly that it doesn't make sense mathematically to do it.

Firstly, finding a 50/50 legal bet is unlikely. Casinos are designed so that the house has the edge in probability.

Secondly, even if you found one, doubling your bet every time does not help your long-term chances of winning.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Besides, casinos have the right to stop anyone they wish from betting any time they wish. If it even appears that you're more likely than not to beat them they'll politely escort you to a new table where you can begin giving them your money all anew.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
It doesn't work like that. Roulette has the green (0) to prevent people from doing what you described.

It may work in blackjack. The problem is the more you bet the more you risk to win the same amount. Also remember that casinos do this sort of math before they incorporate games to prevent smart people from cleaning them out.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Doubling the bet every time until one wins is a mathematically unsound strategy, and can be proven with expected value mathematics.
And for good measure, here's the proof.

Suppose I have a game where we flip a coin, and if it's heads, I win, and if it's tails, you win, and we each bet a dollar. You lose, so you try again with a $2 bet, and lose again, so you bet $4. You can keep this up until you run out of money, and can't double your bet again. The plan is that you walk away on a win.

Let's say you have $32 total to bet.

For the first bet, you put in $1 and have an expected winning value of $0.
Math: E[x] = (1/2)*(-1) + (1/2)*(1) = 0 (Meaning, you have a 1/2 chance of losing a dollar, and 1/2 chance of winning a dollar, so your expected win is mathematically 0.)
If you lose, you now have $31 left. You have a 1/2 chance of winning at this stage, and you get $1 if you win.

For the second bet, assuming you lost the first bet, you put in $2 and have an expected winning value of $0.
Math: E[x] = (1/2)*(-2) + (1/2)*(2) = 0
If you lose, you now have $29 left. You have a 1/4 chance of losing in the first stage and winning at this stage, because (1/2)^2 = 1/4, and you get $2 if you win, but you've already lost $1, so you only get $1 if you win at this stage.

For the third bet, assuming you lost the second bet, you put in $4 and have an expected winning value of $0.
Math: E[x] = (1/2)*(-4) + (1/2)*(4) = 0
If you lose, you now have $25 left. You have a 1/8 chance of losing in the first two stages and winning at this stage, because (1/2)^3 = 1/8, and you get $4 if you win, but you've already lost $3, so you only get $1 if you win at this stage.

For the fourth bet, assuming you lost the third bet, you put in $8 and have an expected winning value of $0.
Math: E[x] = (1/2)*(-8) + (1/2)*(8) = 0
If you lose, you now have $17 left. You have a 1/16 chance of losing in the first three stages and winning at this stage, because (1/2)^4 = 1/16, and you get $8 if you win, but you've already lost $7, so you only get $1 if you win at this stage.

For the fifth bet, assuming you lost the fourth bet, you put in $16 and have an expected winning value of $0.
Math: E[x] = (1/2)*(-16) + (1/2)*(16) = 0
If you lose, you now have $1 left and CANNOT double again, so you lose for good. You have a 1/32 chance of losing in the first four stages and winning at this stage, because (1/2)^5 = 1/32, and you get $16 if you win, but you've already lost $15, so you only get $1 if you win at this stage.

.....

Your chance of winning in at least 1 of the 5 bets (and therefore walking away a winner) is 31/32 (math: 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 + 1/32 = 31/32). And you get $1 if you win.

Your chance of losing all five bets (the only way to be a loser in this strategy) is 1/32 (math: (1/2)^5 = 1/32). And you lose $31 if lose.

So if we calculated your expected value of the whole game, we get:
E[x] = (31/32)*(1) + (1/32)*(-31) = 0

In other words, not only is your expected value of each bet zero, but your expected value from this whole game is zero too. You have a very likely chance of winning $1, and a very unlikely chance of losing $31, but mathematically, if you keep playing this, you'll end up with what you started. More realistically, in a casino, since no games are 50/50, your expected value is negative, and you eventually end up broke if you keep playing.

The same math applies no matter how much you start with and how much the initial bet is, as long as you start with a finite amount. And it doesn't make sense to start with an infinite amount, because a) there's no such thing as infinite money and b) if you had infinite money then gambling is irrelevant.

So, the strategy of doubling on a loss is not viable.
 

ninerbuff

godless wonder
I ALWAYS walk away from a black jack table once I'm $100+ up.
If I lose the money I started with, I flat out quit for that day.
Will probably never be a pro gambler, but I've won more than I've lost.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I ALWAYS walk away from a black jack table once I'm $100+ up.
If I lose the money I started with, I flat out quit for that day.
Will probably never be a pro gambler, but I've won more than I've lost.

I haven't been in a casino in years, but when I did go, I'd approach it as paying for entertainment: I'd come in with a set amount of money and play games that I find fun. If I lost, so be it - I had fun. If I won, it was a bonus.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
I haven't been in a casino in years, but when I did go, I'd approach it as paying for entertainment: I'd come in with a set amount of money and play games that I find fun. If I lost, so be it - I had fun. If I won, it was a bonus.
That is how I do it too. I haven't been to a casino in a while, but then I only played some slots that I found to be interesting (my mother sold gaming supplies for awhile and she would sell slot machines, so I got interested in them).

If I really want to gamble, and win, I just get myself invited to a poker game at either a friends house or their friend's house. And then I use my knowledge of card manipulation to give me an advantage. Okay, I cheat.
 

ninerbuff

godless wonder
That is how I do it too. I haven't been to a casino in a while, but then I only played some slots that I found to be interesting (my mother sold gaming supplies for awhile and she would sell slot machines, so I got interested in them).

If I really want to gamble, and win, I just get myself invited to a poker game at either a friends house or their friend's house. And then I use my knowledge of card manipulation to give me an advantage. Okay, I cheat.
I'd hate to play with you then!!!! Lol, we'd have to keep counting all the cards and not let you deal!
Like you I enjoy a good game of poker with friends and gambling with them more than at a casino, which is why I don't go hardly at all. Something about just "one upping" your friends in a good game of poker that feels really good!
 

Marble

Rolling Marble
The only way to win in a casino is when you are a millionaire and don't need that money at all.
Sad but true.
 
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