I want to b elieve

[Aupmanyav]

That impacts on the love and kindness that God is supposed to have. He can override human free will and remove all conflicts and miseries. He has the power to make every one in the world happy and secure. But he would not do it. He would wait for a thousand years, let people suffer, send another manifestation, then again wait for a thousand years for things to get alright, and then again send ... Has he not already sent sent enough prophets, sons, messengers, manifestations and mahdis. There seems to be something wrong with God's mind. He should consult a competent psychiatrist.

Basically, all the God, prophet, son, messenger, manifestation and mahdi theories are (you know what ).

 

[Trailblazer]

That impacts on the love and kindness that God is supposed to have. He can override human free will and remove all conflicts and miseries. He has the power to make every one in the world happy and secure. But he would not do it. He would wait for a thousand years, let people suffer, send another manifestation, then again wait for a thousand years for things to get alright, and then again send ... Has he not already sent sent enough prophets, sons, messengers, manifestations and mahdis. There seems to be something wrong with God's mind. He should consult a competent psychiatrist.

It is not God who has the problem, it is humans who FAIL to recognize God's Messengers. Clearly, this is human failure because an infallible God cannot fail. Baha'u'llah says that some people are guided, but if you read the passages carefully it become clear WHY some are guided whereas others are not... How anyone can fail to recognize the greatness of the Cause of Baha'u'llah is beyond me, then again I was never a member of any other religion so I do not have confirmation bias and prejudice. Jews and Christians totally misinterpret all the prophecies in the Tanakh and the Bible, simply because they want what they want. Jews want the Messiah that is made in their own image and Christians want the same Jesus.

“Great indeed is this Day! The allusions made to it in all the sacred Scriptures as the Day of God attest its greatness. The soul of every Prophet of God, of every Divine Messenger, hath thirsted for this wondrous Day. All the divers kindreds of the earth have, likewise, yearned to attain it. No sooner, however, had the Day Star of His Revelation manifested itself in the heaven of God’s Will, than all, except those whom the Almighty was pleased to guide, were found dumbfounded and heedless.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 11

“So blind hath become the human heart that neither the disruption of the city, nor the reduction of the mountain in dust, nor even the cleaving of the earth, can shake off its torpor. The allusions made in the Scriptures have been unfolded, and the signs recorded therein have been revealed, and the prophetic cry is continually being raised. And yet all, except such as God was pleased to guide, are bewildered in the drunkenness of their heedlessness!”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 39

"Some were guided by the Light of God, gained admittance into the court of His presence, and quaffed, from the hand of resignation, the waters of everlasting life, and were accounted of them that have truly recognized and believed in Him. Others rebelled against Him, and rejected the signs of God, the Most Powerful, the Almighty, the All-Wise.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 145

“Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.””
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 266-267​

 

[Aupmanyav]

How anyone can fail to recognize the greatness of the Cause of Baha'u'llah is beyond me, then again I was never a member of any other religion so I do not have confirmation bias and prejudice.

That is probably the problem with you and why you fail to see bias and prejudice in your own thinking.

The cause does not belong to Bahaullah, it is of the whole humanity. Claiming oneself to be a prophet, son, messenger, manifestation or mahdi of a particularly nasty God (and who denies the existence of other Gods or Goddesses) and assuming a fictitious authority is not the answer for it. The problem should have been presented as one human to another. How can anyone fail to recognize the falsities in these unproved claims is beyond me.

 

[Trailblazer]

That is probably the problem with you and why you fail to see bias and prejudice in your own thinking.

I have a bias, we all have a bias towards what we believe. But that does not mean I have a prejudice against what others believe. I simply do not share some beliefs since they contradict my beliefs.

The cause does not belong to Bahaullah, it is of the whole humanity.

Correct, it is for all of humanity. Baha'u'llah never claimed that the Cause belonged to Him. He claimed it was the Cause of God.

“Who can ever believe that this Servant of God hath at any time cherished in His heart a desire for any earthly honor or benefit? The Cause associated with His Name is far above the transitory things of this world. Behold Him, an exile, a victim of tyranny, in this Most Great Prison. His enemies have assailed Him on every side, and will continue to do so till the end of His life. Whatever, therefore, He saith unto you is wholly for the sake of God, that haply the peoples of the earth may cleanse their hearts from the stain of evil desire, may rend its veil asunder, and attain unto the knowledge of the one true God—the most exalted station to which any man can aspire. Their belief or disbelief in My Cause can neither profit nor harm Me. We summon them wholly for the sake of God. He, verily, can afford to dispense with all creatures.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 85​

Claiming oneself to be a prophet, son, messenger, manifestation or mahdi of a particularly nasty God (and who denies the existence of other Gods or Goddesses) and assuming a fictitious authority is not the answer for it. The problem should have been presented as one human to another. How can anyone fail to recognize the falsities in these unproved claims is beyond me.

God is not nasty simply because God reveals Himself as One. Since God is omnipotent and omniscient it would make no sense to have more than one God and there is no such need.

God does not speak to anyone directly. God speaks through the Holy Spirit only through His Chosen Messengers since only they can understand God's communication. They are mediators between God and man.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I have a bias, we all have a bias towards what we believe. But that does not mean I have a prejudice against what others believe. I simply do not share some beliefs since they contradict my beliefs.

Good.

Correct, it is for all of humanity. Baha'u'llah never claimed that the Cause belonged to Him. He claimed it was the Cause of God.

You said it was 'cause of Bahaullah'. See your post # 102. I do not believe in any God.

God is not nasty simply because God reveals Himself as One. Since God is omnipotent and omniscient it would make no sense to have more than one God and there is no such need.

All monotheistic religions had many Gods to begin with who lived in peace with each other. Strife came up only with this One God and those who claimed that they were prophets, sons, messengers, manifestations and mahdis of this God. They destroyed the peace of the world.

God does not speak to anyone directly. God speaks through the Holy Spirit only through His Chosen Messengers since only they can understand God's communication. They are mediators between God and man.

There is no God and no reason why should God speak only through the mediators? And what proof these mediators have to establish that they are the mediators?

 

[Trailblazer]

Good.You said it was 'cause of Bahaullah'. See your post # 102.

Baha'u'llah called it His Cause, but He also said that whatever He did was for the sake of God, not for Himself.

"Their belief or disbelief in My Cause can neither profit nor harm Me. We summon them wholly for the sake of God. He, verily, can afford to dispense with all creatures." Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 85​

I do not believe in any God. All monotheistic religions had many Gods to begin with who lived in peace with each other. Strife came up only with this One God and those who claimed that they were prophets, sons, messengers, manifestations and mahdis of this God. They destroyed the peace of the world.

I apologize, I do not know much of religious history or the Bible, because I was never any religion but a Baha'i and I was not interested in religion most of my life.

There is no God and no reason why should God speak only through the mediators? And what proof these mediators have to establish that they are the mediators?

It makes sense to me that there is a God, one God, which is the only reason I believe in God. It also makes sense to me that God would speak through mediators instead of speaking to everyone directly. These mediators have evidence that supports their claims, their deeds and words and the history of their Cause. Baha'u'llah has more evidence to support His claim than any Messenger of the past since we have verifiable history and original scriptures that he wrote with His Own Pen.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It makes sense to me that there is a God, one God, which is the only reason I believe in God. It also makes sense to me that God would speak through mediators instead of speaking to everyone directly. These mediators have evidence that supports their claims, their deeds and words and the history of their Cause. Baha'u'llah has more evidence to support His claim than any Messenger of the past since we have verifiable history and original scriptures that he wrote with His Own Pen.

Circular reasoning. True because he said it. That is not evidence. Just as one God makes sense to you, many Gods and Goddesses make sense to Hindus.

Replace the name of 'Bible' with any other book of your choice (Kitáb-i-Aqdas if you so desire).

 

[Trailblazer]

Circular reasoning. True because he said it. That is not evidence. Just as one God makes sense to you, many Gods and Goddesses make sense to Hindus.

Replace the name of 'Bible' with any other book of your choice (Kitáb-i-Aqdas if you so desire).

I understand your point but I am not saying that it should make sense to you or to anyone else just because it makes sense to me... People can only believe what makes sense to them... That will vary because we are all individuals with our different backgrounds and life experiences.

My belief in Baha'u'llah is not based upon circular reasoning because I do not believe that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God just because He claimed to be one. Anyone can say that but why would I believe them without a lot of evidence to back up that claim? The evidence is as follows:

What He was like as a person (His character);
What He did during His mission on earth;
The history of His Cause, from the time He appeared moving forward;
The scriptures that were attributed to Him or scriptures that He wrote;
What others have written about Him;
The Bible prophecies that He fulfilled by His coming,
The prophecies of other religions that He fulfilled by His coming;
The predictions He made that have come to pass;
The religion that He established (followers), what they have done and are doing now.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The Bible prophecies that He fulfilled by His coming;
The prophecies of other religions that He fulfilled by His coming;
The predictions He made that have come to pass;
The religion that He established (followers), what they have done and are doing now.

Usual blah-blah. They have done nothing special other than trying to get converts. As for social services, all religions do that.

 

[Trailblazer]

Usual blah-blah. They have done nothing special other than trying to get converts. As for social services, all religions do that.

But no other religions have set up the framework for a future world government.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But no other religions have set up the framework for a future world government.

I think Plato did in his Utopia/Republic. So, Bahaullah also has his, where he is the latest manifestation of his One God and worshiped by the seven and a half billion humanity. In psychiatry, is it not named as 'megalomania' (Narcissistic personality disorder - NPD)?

"Grandiose delusions (GD), delusions of grandeur, expansive delusions also known as megalomania are a sub-type of delusion that occur in patients suffering from a wide range of psychiatric diseases, including two-thirds of patients in manic state of bipolar disorder, half of those with schizophrenia, patients with the grandiose sub-type of delusional disorder, and a substantial portion of those with substance abuse disorders."
Grandiose delusions - Wikipedia, Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia

"A utopia (/juːˈtoʊpiə/ yoo-TOH-pee-ə) is an imagined community or society that possesses highly desirable or nearly perfect qualities for its citizens. .. One could also say that utopia is a perfect "place" that has been designed so there are no problems. .. The term utopia was coined from Greek by Sir Thomas More for his 1516 book Utopia, describing a fictional island society in the south Atlantic Ocean off the coast of South America."
Utopia - Wikipedia

 

[Trailblazer]

"A utopia (/juːˈtoʊpiə/ yoo-TOH-pee-ə) is an imagined community or society that possesses highly desirable or nearly perfect qualities for its citizens. .. One could also say that utopia is a perfect "place" that has been designed so there are no problems. .. The term utopia was coined from Greek by Sir Thomas More for his 1516 book Utopia, describing a fictional island society in the south Atlantic Ocean off the coast of South America."
Utopia - Wikipedia

No, it is not a utopia. It is simply the betterment of the world and the tranquility of its peoples, and peace and security, through the establishment of world unity.

“The One true God beareth Me witness, and His creatures will testify, that not for a moment did I allow Myself to be hidden from the eyes of men, nor did I consent to shield My person from their injury. Before the face of all men I have arisen, and bidden them fulfil My pleasure. My object is none other than the betterment of the world and the tranquillity of its peoples. The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established. This unity can never be achieved so long as the counsels which the Pen of the Most High hath revealed are suffered to pass unheeded.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 286​

In the Bible this is called the Kingdom of God and Baha’is call it the Golden Age. It is also called the Messianic Age, and it was envisioned long, long before Baha’u’llah came.

The Messianic Age and it was prophesied by ALL the religions of the past and it was expected to be ushered in by the coming of the Messiah.

Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah came in fulfillment of the Messianic prophecies, but everyone is free to decide for themselves whether that is true or not.

“Each of the world's major religions contains Messianic prophecies.

Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, the Zoroastrian religion and even the Native American religions all foretell the coming of a Promised One. Each of the Founders of these great religions either promised to personally return himself, to send another like himself or in some instances.... the Founder promised to do both.

Christians await the return of Christ and the coming of "another comforter." The Jewish scriptures foretell the coming of "another Prophet" like Moses and the return of Elijah from heaven. Many Moslems await the appearance of Mahdi and Meseeh. Krishna promised to personally return from age to age. Buddha said that he was not the first Buddha ever to appear and that another "supremely enlightened" Buddha was still yet to come. Zoroastrian prophecies foretell the coming of a "World-renovator." Native American prophecies foretell the coming of a bearded white man from the east who will bring teachings which will restore the hoop of unity.

Each religion, in its own way, has foretold the coming of a great 'religion restoring', 'world uniting', 'peace bringing' Messiah.

For centuries, people from all over the world have been hoping and praying that they will be the generation which will witness the appearance of their Promised One. Not many have considered the possibility that these prophecies from the various religions might actually all be foretelling the exact same event.

Members of the Baha'i Faith believe that in the middle of the last century these prophecies actually were fulfilled and that the Promised One truly did appear.

Baha'u'llah, the Prophet founder of the Baha'i Faith, claims to be the Promised One whose coming was explicitly foretold, not only in the Old and the New Testaments.... but also in the prophecies of the Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, Islamic and other religions.

If Baha'u'llah truly is the Promised One then His appearance is one of the greatest events of human history. Are Baha'u'llah's claim true? How can we know for certain? Just take a look at some of the proofs and prophecies... and then decide for yourself.”

From: Prophecy Fulfilled Webpage​

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, cult leaders resort to all sorts of strategies.
"There are two historical and intellectual denotations of Obscurantism: the deliberate restriction of knowledge - opposition to disseminating knowledge; and, deliberate obscurity - an abstruse style (as in literature and art) characterized by deliberate vagueness."
Obscurantism - Wikipedia, Cult - Wikipedia

 

[Sand Dancer]

What's wrong with monotheism? Not all monotheistic religions are like Christianity. Do you think there is more than one God? How much sense does it make that we would need more than one God?

It's not really the concept, it's just those religions tend to be more forceful, since there's only belief in that god and unbelief. Polytheists don't care which deity you believe in, so there's not much proselytizing. I did look into Baha'i, except that they are not open to homosexual marriage.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's not really the concept, it's just those religions tend to be more forceful, since there's only belief in that god and unbelief. Polytheists don't care which deity you believe in, so there's not much proselytizing. I did look into Baha'i, except that they are not open to homosexual marriage.

But logically speaking, there is either one God or there are many gods. Do you want to believe in many gods if there is only one God, just because it feels better, or do you want to believe the Truth? Is the fact that Baha'i does not allow homosexual marriage a good enough reason to turn away from the Truth from God? The Baha'i Faith allows homosexuals and some are members, they just cannot be married according to Baha'i Laws.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

I was a Christian for a long time and became atheist. I got fed up with right wing Christianity. Lately though, I have been wanting something. I want to believe but do not want a Christian god. I am obsessing about it but am no closer to finding what I want. Any suggestions?

I share your concerns about ring wingers who hijack Christianity and other religions. Who says people need to be right wing to join Christianity or another religions? I am a centrist moderate democrat who leans left. I feel what you are going through. If you ever feel like discussing this some more, lemme know. If not, I still love you. PS, you sound more agnotic than atheist if you are open to being spiritual stuff. I was one for a while.

 

[islam abduallah]

I was a Christian for a long time and became atheist. I got fed up with right wing Christianity. Lately though, I have been wanting something. I want to believe but do not want a Christian god. I am obsessing about it but am no closer to finding what I want. Any suggestions?

I actually can't get your motivation in that seeking, is it important to know the motivation? I think so
I can't imagine to seek God (s) on desire like saying I don't want to be a Christian
If Christian god is a real god, so it's he who deserve you and your heart even if it's apparently against your desire

Then it's he who will bring happiness and satisfaction in your heart

And what's gain of seeking falsehood but it matches my desires
Trust me it'll make things worst
It's not a call to be a Christian but it's a call to change your criteria of selection

 

[masonlandry]

I was a Christian for a long time and became atheist. I got fed up with right wing Christianity. Lately though, I have been wanting something. I want to believe but do not want a Christian god. I am obsessing about it but am no closer to finding what I want. Any suggestions?

I was in the same boat as you for a while. Religion fills a lot of roles that humans have a strong desire, if not a need, for. Our problem is thinking that to fulfill our spiritual needs we have to believe something ridiculous. That's really not necessary. I would suggest listening to Jordan Peterson talk about mythology and religion, listen to Alan Watts, and also to Sam Harris talk about spirituality.

The word "spiritual" is a point of contention for some because it has the connotation of a ghost, some real but not real thing made of ectoplasm or some other "substance" that just doesn't register to human senses. I don't feel that way about it. Anything metaphysical gets popped under the realm of spiritual for me. Which includes ideas like potential, morality, meaning, and love. Mythology in particular is important to me, because I think ancient people told stories that symbolized real phenomena and didn't even realize they were describing something profoundly true through that symbolism.

 

[GoldenThread]

I was a Christian for a long time and became atheist. I got fed up with right wing Christianity. Lately though, I have been wanting something. I want to believe but do not want a Christian god. I am obsessing about it but am no closer to finding what I want. Any suggestions?

Usually the answer we are looking for is something we don't want to hear.

I would encourage you to go into this 'soul searching' with a willingness to believe whatever God puts in your path. If you hold onto any biases on this journey, then you will only find the answers that fit your biases, not the truth that God wants to reveal to you. If you learn to let go of these things, then you will find the answer you are seeking for.

In peace