I was wrong - and that makes me angry.

[Shadow Wolf]

I agree with you that Republicans care less about the views of Muslims.

However, what happens in future, is not the responsibility of those who abstain from voting,
in my view.

Not voting is consenting to whatever happens.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The news, analysts commentary and the discussion here have brought me to the conclusion that at least Trump's voters were not malicious, just delusional.

I get that feeling a lot. They aren't necessarily haters as they are desperate and under-and-misinformed.

 

[Watchmen]

Let's say that article is correct. It means that when given the chance to pick between a candidate that represents misogyny and xenophobia, and a candidate that (in their minds at least) represents identity politics, americans picked the former. What does that say about americans?

Did you read the article or only the headline?

 

[Koldo]

Did you read the article or only the headline?

The whole thing.

 

[stvdv]

For many decades, whenever the republicans took power, there has been a 'feeding frenzy' among the rich and greedy. They like to call this a "good economy", but it's really only good for them. This one will be a doozy, as they say

"doozy" I learned a new word, thanks, indeed what I meant

, because they know it may be the last. And a whole lot of Americans will end up broke, jobless, homeless, in prison, deported, or dead.

It was my gut feeling, I hoped it would be wrong

And the rich criminals will just move to their mansions in Spain or wherever once the U.S. is used up.

"Rich criminals" is indeed a better description for these rich billionaires enriching themselves over the back of others

 

[stvdv]

However, what happens in future, is not the responsibility of those who abstain from voting,
in my view.

True, IMV

Not voting is consenting to whatever happens.

Untrue and easy to prove

IF 99% or 50% don't vote
THEN the impact is immense
This can't/won't be ignored
Hence it proves your comment is false

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Untrue and easy to prove

IF 99% or 50% don't vote
THEN the impact is immense
This can't/won't be ignored
Hence it proves your comment is false

See, I can say I do not at all consent to anything Trump and Reps do. I didn't vote for any of it, I put my stamp of approval on other candidates, including a write in of the Insane Clown Posse in two races where it was only Reps running.
To those who didn't vote, you are effectively saying you are ok with whoever wins as you failed to actually voice any sort of opinion, concern, thought or approval. They may say they didn't vote for the mess, but inaction is a passive endorsement for it because you did nothing about it.

 

[stvdv]

See, I can say I do not at all consent to anything Trump and Reps do. I didn't vote for any of it, I put my stamp of approval on other candidates, including a write in of the Insane Clown Posse in two races where it was only Reps running.

True

To those who didn't vote, you are effectively saying you are ok with whoever wins

Not true

as you failed to actually voice any sort of opinion, concern, thought or approval.

Silence has been proven to be powerful

They may say they didn't vote for the mess, but inaction

"Silence vote" is not inaction, as I explained

BUT

I do understand your point
IF you see violence and do nothing
THEN you are as guilty for it to continue

Still
This doesn't apply to "voting"
Just think about it, keeping below poll in mind

is a passive endorsement for it because you did nothing about it.

It can be an active expression that none of the options are correct

IF you have a poll on RF asking:
1) I vote for Trump as a dictaor
2) I vote for Elon Musk becoming triple as rich

I would vote "silent"

BUT I will always respect your free choice

 

[muhammad_isa]

When a voter has the ability to cast a vote
against a malefactor, but doesn't, then
that voter bears responsibility for that
choice to abstain, putting the malefactor
in power.

No .. this attitude assumes that the voter really has a power to shape what their govt.
does. This is an illusion.

We are all responsible for what we do .. including those in the govt.
You cannot blame a person who abstains, for what other people vote for.
..for what other people do.

"No nation will change, until its people change".
If the majority vote for Trump, then you get Trump.

If the majority vote for Hitler, then they get Hitler.

Perhaps its time to take to the hills?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Not voting is consenting to whatever happens.

No .. not consenting .. accepting fate, yes.

Why should you vote for one of two, when you don't agree with either?
Why should you not vote for a third candidate, even though you don't think it will be
victorious?

What many people in this thread are trying to do, is blame everybody except themselves!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

IF 99% or 50% don't vote
THEN the impact is immense
This can't/won't be ignored
Hence it proves your comment is false

People say holy crap, that was a really low turn out and things go on as normal. I saw this in Indiana, 2014 election, when there was a record setting, abysmally low voter turnout.

 

[Revoltingest]

No .. this attitude assumes that the voter really has a power to shape what their govt.
does. This is an illusion.

It's a small power that the individual has.
But aggregated, voters determine who is elected.
If voters who stood down had instead voted for
Harris, Trump wouldn't be President.
So voting isn't an illusion.

If the majority vote for Hitler, then they get Hitler.

Then it would be useful for people who
oppose Hitler to vote against him,
rather than letting others choose him.

Perhaps its time to take to the hills?

I'm staying in Revoltistan...with
occasional trips to PA, MD, & NJ.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It can be an active expression that none of the options are correct

That's why I wrote in Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope. Because a "silent vote" isn't a practical or pragmatic approach here. It changed nothing, of course, but I can literally say I voted for a couple of rapping wicked clowns over Republican ****s (one who is so dirty he sent out flyers saying his opponent wasn't really running). We don't have a none of the above option, someone on the ballot is going to win (nearly always a Dem or Rep), thus there is no power in a silent vote. Not voting is saying ok to all the above and whatever it brings.

IF you have a poll on RF asking:
1) I vote for Trump as a dictaor
2) I vote for Elon Musk becoming triple as rich

I would vote "silent"

Ever notice how many people in polls here say none of the options reflect their actual views? Even though this is true they still make the effort to voice their opinion.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No .. this attitude assumes that the voter really has a power to shape what their govt.
does. This is an illusion.

The LDP in Japan was recently dealt a harsh, and rare, electoral reprisal by the Japanese People who weren't happy about a recent scandal.
A vote is how we shape the government.

 

[F1fan]

Thank you for sharing your detailed view on this issue.

I think there will be major changes very soon in America. Lots of people will loose their jobs I think, and all the extra dollars freed by this, will disappear in the pockets of the very rich.

Would be interesting to keep score, how many billions the billionaires will grab from the poor this time. During Covid, most billionaires enriched themselves without any shame

Trump seems the perfect puppet to accomplish this dollar shift from poor to very rich

I'm seeing reports of Musk and Ramaswami being a "government efficiency" team. This includes laying off massive numbers of civil servants, and without any details of wehtehr there is any rhyme or reason in how this happens. Musk says he can cut 2 trillion from the budget, and apparently part of that is laying off government workers. The question is how does our federal government function? My concern is that Trump and these guys have a very naive understanding of how the government works. I can't even imagine how they can get away with this given the result would be catastrophic at some point. My prediction is that these meaures would be unconstitutional, and perhaps be stopped by federal judges.

 

[stvdv]

My concern is that Trump and these guys have a very naive understanding of how the government works.

Billionaires know that "money talks"

I can't even imagine how they can get away with this given the result would be catastrophic at some point.

They'll get away with it very very very rich
Elon Musk 'got" 18 billion from his Trump stunt

My prediction is that these meaures would be unconstitutional

Some people don't care, and get away with anything. How many charges Trump has?

But, maybe they stop him just in time
But I won't hold my breath
Decision has been made I think

, and perhaps be stopped by federal judges.

Trump will select judges who dance with him

I do hope I have it totally wrong
But I only believe after I've seen

Play and endjoy:

 

[Heyo]

...too Soros.
Definitely too Soros.

Definitely not Soros enough - both have been proposed as explanations.

 

[Estro Felino]

Definitely not Soros enough - both have been proposed as explanations.

Speaking of which...
I think you should start worrying about the EU, because the anti-Soros EU is the future.

Have you seen the last regional elections in Germany?

 

[Heyo]

Does our "aristocracy" not see the guillotines waiting in the future?

I think they do. They just think they will be able to escape.
Humans, at least some, have ambition. Ambition to optimize. For the rich, that means to get an ever bigger piece of the pie. It is a game of chicken for them. Pyramid schemes work that way, and, to an extent, the stock market. The rush of the game is to keep going as long as it's profitable and jump off just before the crash. Sucking a population dry is the same game. They know that their system will end in a revolution if they suck too hard. The rush is to find the spot where the people will not revolt, while still giving most of their money to the rich.
Marx said that capitalism will always lead to socialism. He was only partly right. He was right in the observation that the capitalists will inevitably overturn the screw, but the revolution doesn't have to be a socialistic one. It could just as well lead to fascism.

 

[Heyo]

Tony Blair got re-elected in 2005 despite taking the U.K. into an illegal war, on the coattails of America. But that war, and the loss of faith it engendered in the population helped keep the British Labour Party out of power for 14 years.

Electors punish left leaning parties for warmongering, because they see that as a betrayal; they don’t punish right wing parties for the same crime, because they expect the right to be warlike. And they expect the right to be materialistic, selfish, and morally compromised.

The left are generally held to higher standards, and when they demonstrably fail to meet those standards, they instantly lose the support of not only dreamers and idealists, but also of those electors most inclined to vote on the basis of sincerely held principles and beliefs.

That makes sense as an explanation. But I wouldn't put it on the "left" or the "right", I'd put it on the realists and the delusional. Reality has a left leaning bias, but that is not the point.
Delusion is a strong motivator. When you think that your saviour can't do wrong, you will vote for him, no matter what. When you are a realist, you see the flaws in your party, and sometimes the doubt will make you not vote for them.
I think that is what happened in the US.

I used the word "saviour" deliberately. Trump has that charisma, and many people who were prone to delusions (by believing in saviours in the first place), fell for him. Watch the Trumpists, they have excuses for every fault - or they will simply not answer you, having the faults blanked out of their perception. Contrast that to the realistic view of leftists of Kamala. They do see the flaws, and they deliberate the cons against the pros. That leads to less than the 100% enthusiasm the Trumpists bring to the voting booth.

And that is not specific to right and left. Get a left "saviour" and it will be the other way around.