Ideal secular society?

[Apex]

This is from a blog post from an atheist asking if we will ever live in a secular society.

Will We Ever Live in a Secular Society? | Friendly Atheist

He expresses his view a of a "truly" secular society and asks if others share his view (even though he admits it is currently unrealistic).

Here is how he thought of a secular society.

As an atheist, I have gotten the idea that secular sections of society, like the workplace, should be completely devoid of religion. I had the idea that a secular society would be a magical place where no mention of religion was ever uttered in public except by evangelists. Religious people would be relegated to only speaking of their superstition in the confines of their own home or church. I hoped that admitting you were religious in public got you the same looks of disbelief that an atheist gets when they admit a lack of belief in god while socializing after a church service.

For atheists here, what do you think of this view of a secular society? Would it be better than what we have today? Worse? Or possibly just the same old status quo with a different dominant world view?

For theists, would you enjoy living in such a society?

 

[Tristesse]

This is from a blog post from an atheist asking if we will ever live in a secular society.

Will We Ever Live in a Secular Society? | Friendly Atheist

He expresses his view a of a "truly" secular society and asks if others share his view (even though he admits it is currently unrealistic).

Here is how he thought of a secular society.
For atheists here, what do you think of this view of a secular society? Would it be better than what we have today? Worse? Or possibly just the same old status quo with a different dominant world view?

For theists, would you enjoy living in such a society?

I think society would generally be a better place if religion were gone. So, I'd have to agree with his post.

 

[fantome profane]

I had the idea that a secular society would be a magical place

First I have to say that that is a really unfortunate choice of words.


Second I would like to live in a society where ideas where honestly judged based on the merit of those ideas, not give special protection, nor special scorn, just because they belong to a category labelled “religious”.

And third I would hope that people would be free to express ideas and practice customs in public that would not be acceptable at work. Work is boring. I don’t want the whole world to be like that.

 

[Penumbra]

This is from a blog post from an atheist asking if we will ever live in a secular society.

Will We Ever Live in a Secular Society? | Friendly Atheist

He expresses his view a of a "truly" secular society and asks if others share his view (even though he admits it is currently unrealistic).

Here is how he thought of a secular society.
For atheists here, what do you think of this view of a secular society? Would it be better than what we have today? Worse? Or possibly just the same old status quo with a different dominant world view?

For theists, would you enjoy living in such a society?

From what some people of other countries have told me, there are places where religion is considered a rather private matter, and people don't parade it. I've never been to them or know enough to verify, but it doesn't seem like some magical outcome.

This part struck me as odd:

I am fortunate enough to work in what I consider to be a secular workplace.
We have a Holiday Tree and written into the rules of the desk decoration contest is a “no religious iconography” clause. I know that I am lucky to have this.

I don't care how people decorate their desks. People at my work occasionally decorate their desks with religious stuff. I couldn't care less.

With regards to religion in secular life, all I care is that it doesn't lead to the creation of religion-inspired laws, or that government doesn't show favoritism to any religion or spend tax dollars on it.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Well. I'm not sure better would be a good description in light of the nature of who we are as humans. There obviously will still be issues present.

Of course there would be less ingorance and irrationality of which would be notably refreshing within the scope of any givin societys policy. Yet in spite of such a benefit, I wouldnt think suppressing people for expressing their religious beliefs is necessarily a very good thing overall, with exception of course that religion stays out of the rulebook to maintain overall fairness and stability.

 

[kerravon]

This is from a blog post from an atheist asking if we will ever live in a secular society.

He expresses his view a of a "truly" secular society and asks if others share his view (even though he admits it is currently unrealistic).

I consider Australia to already be an ideal secular society. Religion is a complete non-issue. No-one is interested in your religion, and the general public doesn't attempt to spread their religion. We still have Jehovah's Witnesses etc door-knocking, and letterbox drops from churches though, which is nothing more than healthy freedom of speech/religion in action. Our 3rd-longest serving Prime Minister was an atheist, and I never heard a single person say that they weren't going to vote for him because he was an atheist. I was an atheist most of my life, and never once did anyone discriminate against me or anything else because of that. They discriminated against me because of my lack of interest in sport though.

We do have a Christmas tree at work though. But so too do people distribute food after Eid and Diwali. The lack of discrimination by Christians makes a Christmas tree totally inoffensible to me (regardless of whether I was a theist or atheist).

Truth be told it is me with an atheist mindset (even though I'm a theist) who makes an effort to challenge other people's religious dogma when an opportunity arises, and they do not consider it to be offensive - just part of the same freedom of speech that the JWs etc exercise.

The thing that most infringes on my daily life is actually smoking. Smoking is allowed in public, so I need to run the gauntlet of smokers smoking outside of the workplace to get to the safe work environment. It used to be much worse though - a couple of decades ago it was legal to smoke inside the workplace too!

 

[1137]

Religion is not the problem. Humanity itself is the problem. It seems many other atheists have this idea that religion causes hate, anger, inequality, etc etc etc and if we got rid of religion they would go away. These people are extremely ignorant. Hate and such comes directly from humans, not the religions we created. Everything is individual, and religion can only influence, or only control if one allows it to. We hate because we are hateful.

We do not need to eliminate religion, we need to change human nature. Good luck.

 

[nnmartin]

Religious people would be relegated to only speaking of their superstition in the confines of their own home or church

sounds fairly Totalitarian to me.

similar to Stalin.

Pol Pot wasn't a great fan of religion either - he killed most of the monks and smashed the temples up (in Cambodia)

 

[Tristesse]

sounds fairly Totalitarian to me.

similar to Stalin.

Pol Pot wasn't a great fan of religion either - he killed most of the monks and smashed the temples up (in Cambodia)

The person who wrote that wasn't talking about enforcing laws to prohibit religion, but that religions would be regarded as a fringe belief, and therefor those who believe it wouldn't openly profess belief as they do now. There's nothing totalitarian about that.

 

[Photonic]

This is from a blog post from an atheist asking if we will ever live in a secular society.

Will We Ever Live in a Secular Society? | Friendly Atheist

He expresses his view a of a "truly" secular society and asks if others share his view (even though he admits it is currently unrealistic).

Here is how he thought of a secular society.
For atheists here, what do you think of this view of a secular society? Would it be better than what we have today? Worse? Or possibly just the same old status quo with a different dominant world view?

For theists, would you enjoy living in such a society?

As long as you don't outlaw religion, I don't see why not.

 

[nnmartin]

Tristesse:

it's the slippery slope though.

Why not ban/marginalise philosophy, art, music and fantasy games too - after all, they are also a bit weird.

 

[Photonic]

Religion is not the problem. Humanity itself is the problem. It seems many other atheists have this idea that religion causes hate, anger, inequality, etc etc etc and if we got rid of religion they would go away. These people are extremely ignorant. Hate and such comes directly from humans, not the religions we created. Everything is individual, and religion can only influence, or only control if one allows it to. We hate because we are hateful.

We do not need to eliminate religion, we need to change human nature. Good luck.

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."

-- Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate in physics

 

[Photonic]

Tristesse:

it's the slippery slope though.

Why not ban philosophy, art, music and fantasy games too - after all, they are also a bit weird.

No one is saying ban it here.

 

[nnmartin]

you caught me out before I had a chance to edit!

I have changed it to ban/marginalise now as I knew a sharp fellow like yourself would be on to me pronto.

 

[Tristesse]

Tristesse:

it's the slippery slope though.

Why not ban/marginalise philosophy, art, music and fantasy games too - after all, they are also a bit weird.

Thats the part you seem to have missed, no one is banning anything in this scenerio. What I gather from what that person wrote, while I can't speak for him or her, is that you are still free to practice your religion, but the religious beliefs would be thought of as infintile, thus few would openly profess this belief. And there is no slippery slope because nothing has been banned. It's just a change in the minds of many.

 

[Pineblossom]

I consider Australia to already be an ideal secular society

Australia is fast become a country run by bureaucrats where democracy is just another - expensive - way of changing hats.

I was just watching a SBS doco a couple of days ago on celebrating Christmas in various parts of the world. The sad thing is Workplace Health and Safety would prosecute any such attempts to celebrate in the same way in Australia.

The biggest growth industry, outside of commodities, is the so-called aged care facilities which are little more than stile prisons staffed by very very low paid workers. Inmates are stripped of this dignity and any savings or pension dues to them is ripped off by the institution as 'fees'.

Life is so controlled that the only real outlet for youth is 'recreational' drugs. The 'legal' drugs are now almost legislated out of existence.

You can only catch so many fish and only allowed so many rods and lines.

Try going to a football or cricket match lately? You cannot take anything in but expected to pay the exorbitant prices on the inside.

Even on the beach now there are the muscle police ready to stop anyone swimming except in very tightly controlled and overcrowded swimming areas.

There are vehicle tracking devices embedded into roadways and cameras on every hill and around every corner.

And I have made no mention of the insane security that now operates around the clock and makes one turn up at an airport at least three hours before a flight.

Ordinary citizens are treated as potential criminals.

The fun of living is gone.

If this secular live then bring back religion I say.

 

[kerravon]

Australia is fast become a country run by bureaucrats where democracy is just another - expensive - way of changing hats.
...
If this secular live then bring back religion I say.

Your complaints about Australia are able to be redressed via democracy if you can find enough people to agree with you.

They have nothing to do with the secular nature of the country.

I'd like speed limits to be abolished too, and let traffic flow at its natural speed. That has nothing to do with religion or lack thereof either.

 

[Photonic]

Australia is fast become a country run by bureaucrats where democracy is just another - expensive - way of changing hats.

I was just watching a SBS doco a couple of days ago on celebrating Christmas in various parts of the world. The sad thing is Workplace Health and Safety would prosecute any such attempts to celebrate in the same way in Australia.

The biggest growth industry, outside of commodities, is the so-called aged care facilities which are little more than stile prisons staffed by very very low paid workers. Inmates are stripped of this dignity and any savings or pension dues to them is ripped off by the institution as 'fees'.

Life is so controlled that the only real outlet for youth is 'recreational' drugs. The 'legal' drugs are now almost legislated out of existence.

You can only catch so many fish and only allowed so many rods and lines.

Try going to a football or cricket match lately? You cannot take anything in but expected to pay the exorbitant prices on the inside.

Even on the beach now there are the muscle police ready to stop anyone swimming except in very tightly controlled and overcrowded swimming areas.

There are vehicle tracking devices embedded into roadways and cameras on every hill and around every corner.

And I have made no mention of the insane security that now operates around the clock and makes one turn up at an airport at least three hours before a flight.

Ordinary citizens are treated as potential criminals.

The fun of living is gone.

If this secular live then bring back religion I say.

Fallacy here, you are attributing your flawed government to its secular stance when there is no link.

 

[fantome profane]

The thing that most infringes on my daily life is actually smoking. Smoking is allowed in public, so I need to run the gauntlet of smokers smoking outside of the workplace to get to the safe work environment. It used to be much worse though - a couple of decades ago it was legal to smoke inside the workplace too!

Don’t want to derail this thread, but just want to say I so agree.

 

[1137]

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."

-- Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate in physics

If a person is doing bad things they can hardly be considered a good person. If this simply means that a generally good person can only commit a horrifically bad act with religion, it is utter nonsense.