IDF publishes unedited footage showing Hamas equipment in al-Shifa hospital

[SkepticThinker]

The bravery in championing Israel during an existential crisis. The morality in their behavior and their willingness to step up and protect everyone from those who want them dead.

What's moral about killing thousands of women and children?

What's moral about bombing refugee camps, hospitals and schools? (I work with a man who's aunt and nieces were in that refugee camp.)

 

[rosends]

What's moral about killing thousands of women and children?

Following the rules of war (and often going beyond them).

What's moral about bombing refugee camps, hospitals and schools? (I work with a man who's aunt and nieces were in that refugee camp.)

It is moral to defend your citizenry. Sadly, in war people die. Are you familiar with the Dresden defense?

 

[Bthoth]

Strange. A south African (a former defense minister) whose opinion of what apartheid is means nothing to you.

OK, the objective approach:

Pandor said Pretoria believes Israel should be classified as an apartheid state and that the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) should establish a committee to verify whether it satisfies the requirements.

You don't get to define what Judaism is.

I did not define, i observed the integrity of the religion! Have you ever even read torah? If you have then comprehending that personal responsibility is key to why g-d preferred some over the other is without a doubt.

It involves lineage.

parents teach they children PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. If you do not comprehend that, then let's agree to disagree and you can be the dross of tanakh and just prepare to live in your hole.

I'm significantly qualified to discuss them.

But your not trust worthy and prove it at most every post

If you can't write in comprehensible English, don't try to hold a conversation.

I am writing in english and you lack the comprehension of what even personal responsibility means.

You can't argue because you don't understand.

I dont understand the obtuse and how a person can be so rude with arrogance.

Wow. You really don't know history.

waqf. Read the UN res 181 and look up the term hashemite and waqf. Neither require judaism to be understood.

So you don't like the source but can't argue the content. Noted.

Joke post (JPost) has a group of very biased, rude and arrogant sob's writing the content. NO, i have no interest in observing their opinions.

This makes no sense (on a variety of levels). They are generally non-observant Jews using the name "Jew" as if that confers some power to replace logic and law.

So you hate Jews for not accepting your narrative? Your comment is trying to condemn jews for being honest?

Israel, the apartheid; using the label of Jewish has caused more damage to jews worldwide, than anything since ww2.

You don't know Judaism, nor do you know how I "use" it.

I just watched you use that lack of integrity to attack me.

Why would you say that? Not only is it a woefully incomplete statement, you are in no position to decide what Judaism is about.

I write that because I comprehend the dialogue of torah. When you read it you will learn why judaism is one of the best religions and impose the integrity of requiring personal responsibility

You are just digging your hole deeper and deeper.

OK.... the dross are not the Jew, the dross are directly identified as israel............ as written in tanakh, the prophets of jewish literature.

Are you trying to create something to discredit me?

 

[Bthoth]

What's moral about killing thousands of women and children?

What's moral about bombing refugee camps, hospitals and schools? (I work with a man who's aunt and nieces were in that refugee camp.)

Sorry to read that last part.

Please do not condemn Jews for what the apartheid/israel has done.

 

[Bthoth]

Following the rules of war (and often going beyond them).

Such as destroying gaza is what you consider rules of war?

It is moral to defend your citizenry. Sadly, in war people die. Are you familiar with the Dresden defense?

Are you familiar with civility and personal responsibility?

 

[metis]

What's moral about killing thousands of women and children?

What's moral about bombing refugee camps, hospitals and schools? (I work with a man who's aunt and nieces were in that refugee camp.)

When we were attacked by Japan, should the U.S. not do what we did? How about when we heavily bombed Germany? Should we have done nothing after 9-11?

This post is a one-and-out.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Sorry to read that last part.

Me too. He's been walking around like a zombie the last few weeks. Can't say I blame him.

Please do not condemn Jews for what the apartheid/israel has done.

I would never do so. I separate Palestinians from Hamas' actions as I separate Israelis from the actions of the IDF.

 

[Bthoth]

Me too. He's been walking around like a zombie the last few weeks. Can't say I blame him.

I would never do so. I separate Palestinians from Hamas' actions as I separate Israelis from the actions of the IDF.

IDF are israelis....... Ignorant Dumb ffff's...

Israelis DO NOT represent Jews or judaism.

 

[SkepticThinker]

When we were attacked by Japan, should the U.S. not do what we did? How about when we heavily bombed Germany? Should we have done nothing after 9-11?

This post is a one-and-out.

Not sure dropping atom bombs were the most moral thing to do. Bombing German civilians, same deal.

I do not think "nothing" should have been done after 9/11. Invading Iraq and Afghanistan maybe weren't the greatest of ideas though.

Rather than just keeping on fighting like we used to in the past, I feel like we should learn from it, make appropriate changes and alterations in our plans, and do everything we can to protect innocent civilians moving forward.

I was recently listening to a podcast where I think it was a Marine that was being interviewed. He was talking about risk assessment as it pertains to bombing a heavily civilian area in order to take out one Hamas leader, which is I think at the time, the reason the IDF gave for bombing the Al-Sharif hospital. What he said, was in that particular situation, they would never, ever plan any kind of attack on such an area to take out just one Hamas leader because they would definitely end up killing a ton of innocent civilians. He said they just wouldn't do it, because it's not worth it. And I've been thinking about that ever since.

 

[SkepticThinker]

IDF are israelis....... Ignorant Dumb ffff's...

Pardon me, I should have said I separate Israeli civilians from the actions of the IDF.

Israelis DO NOT represent Jews or judaism.

I don't think they do.

 

[rosends]

OK, the objective approach:

Pandor said Pretoria believes Israel should be classified as an apartheid state and that the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) should establish a committee to verify whether it satisfies the requirements.

How is that objective? It starts with "believe". The former defense minister "believes" that it isn't an apartheid state and legal texts support that. Once you reject the legal definition and start mving from law to belief, you lose objectivity.

I did not define, i observed the integrity of the religion!

You made statements about what Judaism IS. That means you are trying to define it. Are you denying that you made those declarations? Need I quote you back to yourself?

Have you ever even read torah? If you have then comprehending that personal responsibility is key to why g-d preferred some over the other is without a doubt.

Seriously, you shouldn't be trying to match up with me in terms of knowledge of Judaism. It is a really bad idea.

parents teach they children PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. If you do not comprehend that, then let's agree to disagree and you can be the dross of tanakh and just prepare to live in your hole.

Making things up does not help your cause.

But your not trust worthy and prove it at most every post

But if I prove it then I must be trustworthy. You just logic-ed yourself into a corner.

I am writing in english and you lack the comprehension of what even personal responsibility means.

Here's some English: "actual departmentalability". Do you know what it means? Just sticking two words in English together doesn't necessarily make for a comprehensible concept.

I dont understand the obtuse and how a person can be so rude with arrogance.

I'm not the one claiming to speak for a religion I am not part of.

waqf. Read the UN res 181 and look up the term hashemite and waqf. Neither require judaism to be understood.

Do you know why the waqf controls the temple mount? Do you understand how the hashemite kingdom was turned into Jordan? Clearly not.

Joke post (JPost) has a group of very biased, rude and arrogant sob's writing the content. NO, i have no interest in observing their opinions.

Or the facts they present apparently.

So you hate Jews for not accepting your narrative? Your comment is trying to condemn jews for being honest?

Where did I say i hate Jews? And why do you decide that those jews who say what you like are, by definition, honest? And what does their being jewish have to do with anything? You are very confused.

Israel, the apartheid; using the label of Jewish has caused more damage to jews worldwide, than anything since ww2.

What a weird statement. Not only is it grammatically confused, but it isn't saying anything that makes any sense.

I just watched you use that lack of integrity to attack me.

What lack of integrity? I pointed out that you don't understand Judaism. Are you trying to play the victim by being proud of what you don't know?

I write that because I comprehend the dialogue of torah.

LOL! You can't even read it.

When you read it you will learn why judaism is one of the best religions and impose the integrity of requiring personal responsibility

More stuff you don't know about Judaism.

OK.... the dross are not the Jew, the dross are directly identified as israel............ as written in tanakh, the prophets of jewish literature.

You don't understand the written text let alone the complementary ones. You just like writing the word "dross."

Are you trying to create something to discredit me?

you don't need my help on that front.

 

[rosends]

Such as destroying gaza is what you consider rules of war?

No, bombing during wartime and notifying civilians in advance so they are not injured. Are you not familiar with the rules of war?

Are you familiar with civility and personal responsibility?

Sure. It is what you act with when you admit you don't understand a religion and don't try to tell practitioners about their own belief system. You should try it.

 

[Sargonski]

How is that objective? It starts with "believe". The former defense minister "believes" that it isn't an apartheid state and legal texts support that. Once you reject the legal definition and start mving from law to belief, you lose objectivity.

You made statements about what Judaism IS. That means you are trying to define it. Are you denying that you made those declarations? Need I quote you back to yourself?

Seriously, you shouldn't be trying to match up with me in terms of knowledge of Judaism. It is a really bad idea.

Making things up does not help your cause.

But if I prove it then I must be trustworthy. You just logic-ed yourself into a corner.

Here's some English: "actual departmentalability". Do you know what it means? Just sticking two words in English together doesn't necessarily make for a comprehensible concept.

I'm not the one claiming to speak for a religion I am not part of.

Do you know why the waqf controls the temple mount? Do you understand how the hashemite kingdom was turned into Jordan? Clearly not.

Or the facts they present apparently.

Where did I say i hate Jews? And why do you decide that those jews who say what you like are, by definition, honest? And what does their being jewish have to do with anything? You are very confused.

What a weird statement. Not only is it grammatically confused, but it isn't saying anything that makes any sense.

What lack of integrity? I pointed out that you don't understand Judaism. Are you trying to play the victim by being proud of what you don't know?

LOL! You can't even read it.

More stuff you don't know about Judaism.

You don't understand the written text let alone the complementary ones. You just like writing the word "dross."

you don't need my help on that front.

What a mess of a response .. crying out .. "You don't know about Judaism" - -- and you do ? "Not being part of Religion" and all ? then murmuring some irrelevant googled factiod about the Hashemite Kingdom turning into Jordan.

What does Hashemite Jordan have to do with the fact that Palestine is an apartheid state ? -- at least according to the Nation that knows Apartheid best -

South Africa lawmakers vote to suspend Israel ties, close embassy​

South Africa lawmakers vote to suspend Israel ties, close embassy

The motion calling for the closure of the embassy passed with 248 votes in favour and 91 votes against.

www.aljazeera.com

"Israel is committing war crimes and genocide in the besieged Gaza Strip, where Palestinian authorities have said more than 14,100 people have been killed in Israel’s air and ground assault since October 7"


Guilty of Ethnic Cleansing - "You don't know about Ethnic Cleansing" now do you Rose -- this was asked of you before .. because you don't seem to understand the Biblical Cleansing that is taking place .. by the extremist Zionist and extremist religious Zealots in unholy union.

Tell us about the "Cleansing" .. since you claim to be the expert on Judaism -- whats this Ethnic Cleansing all about .. From the River to the Sea ? .. "Cleansing the Land - from the River to the Sea"

The podium is yours Rose .. eager are we to hear about the Cleansing ?

Such as destroying gaza is what you consider rules of war?

Are you familiar with civility and personal responsibility?

Oh .. Rose knows about the Rules of War .. claims to all the time .. never giving any rules but .. the claim is there .. like Judaism and Today that claim will be tested and assessed as Rose tells us about the Cleansing of the Land .. and how this meets the definition of "Ethnic Cleansing"

 

[rosends]

What a mess of a response .. crying out .. "You don't know about Judaism" - -- and you do ?

Yes. Yes I do.

"Not being part of Religion" and all ?

am I not part of the religion? I had no idea.

then murmuring some irrelevant googled factiod about the Hashemite Kingdom turning into Jordan.

I didn't murmur about any irrelevant google factoid. I did make reference to a historical event that the other person involved is unfamiliar with.

What does Hashemite Jordan have to do with the fact that Palestine is an apartheid state ? -- at least according to the Nation that knows Apartheid best -

Then you aren't following the discussion.

​

Guilty of Ethnic Cleansing - "You don't know about Ethnic Cleansing" now do you Rose -- this was asked of you before .. because you don't seem to understand the Biblical Cleansing that is taking place .. by the extremist Zionist and extremist religious Zealots in unholy union.

I cited legal documentation and you are talking about your twisted "biblical" view? Wow.

Tell us about the "Cleansing" .. since you claim to be the expert on Judaism -- whats this Ethnic Cleansing all about .. From the River to the Sea ? .. "Cleansing the Land - from the River to the Sea"

Yes, I cited something saying that.

The podium is yours Rose .. eager are we to hear about the Cleansing ?

You should read the sites I listed then.

Oh .. Rose knows about the Rules of War .. claims to all the time .. never giving any rules but .. the claim is there .. like Judaism and Today that claim will be tested and assessed as Rose tells us about the Cleansing of the Land .. and how this meets the definition of "Ethnic Cleansing"

Really? Never gives any? So you haven't read anything I posted. Got it.

 

[Sargonski]

Yes. Yes I do.

am I not part of the religion? I had no idea.

I didn't murmur about any irrelevant google factoid. I did make reference to a historical event that the other person involved is unfamiliar with.

Then you aren't following the discussion.

I cited legal documentation and you are talking about your twisted "biblical" view? Wow.

Yes, I cited something saying that.

You should read the sites I listed then.

Really? Never gives any? So you haven't read anything I posted. Got it.

Your Jordan factoid was completely irrelevant to the topic being addressed -- "Apartheid" -

Where is this cited legal documentation that supports the claim that crimes against humanity and "Ethnic Cleansing" have not happened over the course of this 70 year blood feud .. this latest spat just a continuation on a bigger scale .. kind of like the Ghettos in Germany during WW2 -- when those in the Ghetto Concentration camp rebeled .. the vermin got out of the cage according to the Authoritarians back then .. similar to what we hear out of the Authoritarians now .. "Animals" and worse .. Push those animals into the Sea .. the parallels are striking.

"Twisted Biblical View" -- What Biblical View .. I didn't give one .. ? You are the one claiming to know about Judaism .. the Bible - tell us about the Zionist Ethnic Cleansing in the Bible .. and what is this "Twisted View" .. Surely you are aware of the xenophobic genocidal maniac God by name YHWH .. a jealous God with the most petty and nasty of human characteristics .. sending his Chosen People out to do his nasty bidding .. Slaughtering innocent women children babies and fetuses --- to cleanse the land.

Thats what the bible says .. what are you claiming is the Twisted View ?

 

[rosends]

Your Jordan factoid was completely irrelevant to the topic being addressed -- "Apartheid" -

Actually, that wasn't the topic discussed which raised that issue. So you missed again.

Where is this cited legal documentation that supports the claim that crimes against humanity and "Ethnic Cleansing" have not happened over the course of this 70 year blood feud

So now you are saying that "ethnic cleansing" isn't what Israel is doing now but something that has been happening. This would account for the INCREASE in Arab population, right?

"Twisted Biblical View" -- What Biblical View .. I didn't give one .. ?

and yet you claimed "because you don't seem to understand the Biblical Cleansing that is taking place". So you are claiming that you see a "Biblical Cleansing" and then say that you didn't give a biblical view. You need to pay more attention to your own claims.

You are the one claiming to know about Judaism .. the Bible - tell us about the Zionist Ethnic Cleansing in the Bible

You are the one who insists that this exists. Why ask me what it means?

.. and what is this "Twisted View"

Your view is twisted because you insist that "biblical cleansing is taking place" and since no cleansing is taking place, your view is twisted. QED.

.. Surely you are aware of the xenophobic genocidal maniac God by name YHWH .. a jealous God with the most petty and nasty of human characteristics .. sending his Chosen People out to do his nasty bidding .. Slaughtering innocent women children babies and fetuses --- to cleanse the land.

Thats what the bible says .. what are you claiming is the Twisted View ?

Your opinion on what any of this means and what is happening now.

 

[Sargonski]

Actually, that wasn't the topic discussed which raised that issue. So you missed again.

So now you are saying that "ethnic cleansing" isn't what Israel is doing now but something that has been happening. This would account for the INCREASE in Arab population, right?

and yet you claimed "because you don't seem to understand the Biblical Cleansing that is taking place". So you are claiming that you see a "Biblical Cleansing" and then say that you didn't give a biblical view. You need to pay more attention to your own claims.

You are the one who insists that this exists. Why ask me what it means?

Your view is twisted because you insist that "biblical cleansing is taking place" and since no cleansing is taking place, your view is twisted. QED.

Your opinion on what any of this means and what is happening now.

Can you not keep track of the topic you are discussing . .. which was apartheid .. you running around claiming to be an expert in Judaism.

"You are saying ethic cleansing isn't happening" - You have everything backwards Rose -intentionally of course but your strawman addiction aside - We have been telling you - along with all of the civilized world - that Ethnic Cleansing is in fact happening .. and that this has been going on for many decades .. Least according to international law .. which is not Israeli Law .. in case you were wondering.

"Biblical Cleansing" - It is the extremist religious Israeli's who maintain the cleansing ideology .. this is not the ideology I agree with. How is it you do not know about the Biblical Cleansing of the land .. yet claim to be an expert in Judaism ? and of course Ethnic Cleansing is going on .. similar to the Biblical Cleansing of the land. How is it you don't know this .. ?

 

[rosends]

Can you not keep track of the topic you are discussing . .. which was apartheid

Reread message 338 and trace it back to 333.

.. you running around claiming to be an expert in Judaism.

Actually, I'm sitting, and, yes, I'm (at least relatively) an expert in Judaism.

"You are saying ethic cleansing isn't happening" - You have everything backwards Rose -intentionally of course but your strawman addiction aside - We have been telling you - along with all of the civilized world - that Ethnic Cleansing is in fact happening .. and that this has been going on for many decades .. Least according to international law .. which is not Israeli Law .. in case you were wondering.

You keep making that claim even though I present legal and historical facts to the otherwise. This shows the weakness of your position -- no facts, just repetition of empty claims.

"Biblical Cleansing" - It is the extremist religious Israeli's who maintain the cleansing ideology

Really? How many "extremist religious Israelis" have you met and spoken with? I know a bunch and they haven't expressed any interest in any cleansing.

How is it you do not know about the Biblical Cleansing of the land .. yet claim to be an expert in Judaism ?

Because the idea of "biblical cleansing" was a process that was extant when Joshua went in after Moses' death. It isn't an idea that has any bearing anywhere else.

and of course Ethnic Cleansing is going on .. similar to the Biblical Cleansing of the land. How is it you don't know this .. ?

No, there isn't. You clearly don't understand anything.

 

[Bthoth]

Once you reject the legal definition and start mving from law to belief, you lose objectivity.

LAW????? Israel has been criminal for decades.................... breaking the law of illegal occupation, oppression and pillage.

You made statements about what Judaism IS. That means you are trying to define it. Are you denying that you made those declarations? Need I quote you back to yourself?

NO...... Whether the commandments or international law............ you dont care and will break them as you wish any time you want.

Seriously, you shouldn't be trying to match up with me in terms of knowledge of Judaism. It is a really bad idea.

Is that how your conscious works............. find error in another to substantiate breaking the law

But if I prove it then I must be trustworthy. You just logic-ed yourself into a corner.

Note even remotely

Here's some English: "actual departmentalability". Do you know what it means? Just sticking two words in English together doesn't necessarily make for a comprehensible concept.

Israel is an apartheid!

I'm not the one claiming to speak for a religion I am not part of.

Israel are the dross.

Do you know why the waqf controls the temple mount? Do you understand how the hashemite kingdom was turned into Jordan? Clearly not.

They are legally there. Israel is breaking the law. What's the punishment that you will support?

Where did I say i hate Jews? And why do you decide that those jews who say what you like are, by definition, honest? And what does their being jewish have to do with anything? You are very confused.

I am not taking the bait.

What lack of integrity? I pointed out that you don't understand Judaism.

Them 2 sentences are the evidence!

More stuff you don't know about Judaism.

More evidence.

You don't understand the written text let alone the complementary ones. You just like writing the word "dross."

OK i will copy and paste it, since you did not know where it came from

Ezek 22:18 The house of Israel hath been to Me for dross, All of them .......
19 Therefore, thus said the Lord Jehovah: Because of your all becoming dross, Therefore, lo, I am gathering you unto the midst of Jerusalem,

 

[SkepticThinker]

Following the rules of war (and often going beyond them).

The rules of war don't allow the killing of innocent women and children.

It is moral to defend your citizenry. Sadly, in war people die. Are you familiar with the Dresden defense?

Yes I've heard of the Dresden defense and I think it was immoral.

I don't think we just get to say, "Oh well, people die in war. Whatcha gonna do?" Because there is a lot we can do to avoid killing innocent civilians. And we should be learning from things like the Dresden defense instead of just doing it all over again.