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IDF publishes unedited footage showing Hamas equipment in al-Shifa hospital

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Sure, the scum of Jan 6, supporting the corrupt trump

I do not call fauci an ignorant doctor. The doc was far more important on addressing covid than trump. When will you consider trump as lying scum?

Trump should have been shut down before ever running for president, as His lies caused more problems for US than any good.

Science? Science proved that improving the immune system of the US population, helped well beyond hurt. That fact is based on science, not politics.

That is not the topic but I did my own homework to find that putin/russia had a problem. They would not allow trump to build in russia under the terms trump asked for.

I did not see any such request.

No one bailed him out, he bankrupted his liabilities. He owed the contractors and then failed to pay them.

No idea what that tangent is about.

No. And stop attempting to insult. I am not chasing your request because you have no answer, just a rant.

Good .. so you agree that you are for classifying political dissenters as terrorists -- including the Capital Protesters .. and by precedent .. cop city protesters .. taking away judicial protection and givng them the GITMO - treatment .. glad we established that much .. :)

"Ignorant Doctor Fauci" .. I never claimed Fauci was an ignorant Doctor. -- what was said was that Fauci lied and was engaged in propaganda efforts in relation to the lab leak.

"Science - mrna vax improved immune system of US population" - that unsuported claim may or may not be true .. but what has it to do with the fact that Gov't lied to us about Transmission ? and what is this insult ? I can't help it that you are insulted by the Blue Team lying to you ... its not my fault they lied .. and how is you playing the victim not .. in your words " just a rant"

Gov't lied about Transmission .. then made essential liberty violating legislation on the basis of that lie .. and got the Social media .. and corporate media companies to go along with the lie.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
Good .. so you agree that you are for classifying political dissenters as terrorists -- including the Capital Protesters .. and by precedent .. cop city protesters .. taking away judicial protection and givng them the GITMO - treatment .. glad we established that much .. :)
Actually, people that attacked our capital should be punished with treason. Not just imprisoned. The corrupt that gathered them including trump and the disbarred attorneys as enemies of the state.


"Ignorant Doctor Fauci" .. I never claimed Fauci was an ignorant Doctor.
You write it and then deny the claim.
-- what was said was that Fauci lied and was engaged in propaganda efforts in relation to the lab leak.
Lab leak? What are you trying to convey? That the virus was man made? Was the so called leak based in media propaganda or is there proof that a lab created the virus? The world was affected by the virus, do you believe fauci was involved?
"Science - mrna vax improved immune system of US population"
Are you making up comments? I never wrote that. That's 2 in one post, placed in bold. You are making up arguments that i never made.
- that unsuported claim may or may not be true ..
You created them, as if furthering propaganda.
but what has it to do with the fact that Gov't lied to us about Transmission ?
What lie? The virus was air born, just like the flu.
and what is this insult ? I can't help it that you are insulted by the Blue Team lying to you ...
Looks like you are creating the lies and continue to move the goal post during even a basic conversation.
its not my fault they lied .. and how is you playing the victim not .. in your words " just a rant"
The rant is you are claiming that 'they' lied. About what? Covid is and was deadly.... period!
Gov't lied about Transmission .
Is that the 'lie'? OK, if you have no idea that covid was air born and transmitted by breathing droplets does not make it a lie.
Masking did help save lives. Is that what you hated, having to take on the inconvenience to save the lives of others?
. then made essential liberty violating legislation on the basis of that lie .. and got the Social media .. and corporate media companies to go along with the lie.
So that was it. OK. It's over, move on.

My question: will you vote for that punk trump again? Do you actually believe that He is good for US? Would you trust a crook to have access to our governmental infrastructure again?
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Actually, people that attacked our capital should be punished with treason. Not just imprisoned. The corrupt that gathered them including trump and the disbarred attorneys as enemies of the state.



You write it and then deny the claim.

Lab leak? What are you trying to convey? That the virus was man made? Was the so called leak based in media propaganda or is there proof that a lab created the virus? The world was affected by the virus, do you believe fauci was involved?

Are you making up comments? I never wrote that. That's 2 in one post, placed in bold. You are making up arguments that i never made.

You created them, as if furthering propaganda.

What lie? The virus was air born, just like the flu.

Looks like you are creating the lies and continue to move the goal post during even a basic conversation.

The rant is you are claiming that 'they' lied. About what? Covid is and was deadly.... period!

Is that the 'lie'? OK, if you have no idea that covid was air born and transmitted by breathing droplets does not make it a lie.
Masking did help save lives. Is that what you hated, having to take on the inconvenience to save the lives of others?

So that was it. OK. It's over, move on.

My question: will you vote for that punk trump again? Do you actually believe that He is good for US? Would you trust a crook to have access to our governmental infrastructure again?

"Ignorant Dr Fauci" Notice the quotation marks friend = this is not me claiming Dr Fauci is ignorant ... it is addressing t you posted - and told you in previous post .. Dr. Fauci was called a liar .. not an ignorant Dr. so why are you still trying to pretend that he was called ignorant ?

"What Lie - the virus was air born, just like the flue" you exclaim, and then go on and on about masks and other nonsense not related to the Gov't lying about the Vax preventing Transmission .. and then making legislation violating essential liberty on the basis of this lie.

Do you now understand that the Gov't lied to you (about the vax preventing transmission) and not "follow the Science".
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
"Ignorant Dr Fauci" Notice the quotation marks friend = this is not me claiming Dr Fauci is ignorant ... it is addressing t you posted - and told you in previous post .. Dr. Fauci was called a liar .. not an ignorant Dr. so why are you still trying to pretend that he was called ignorant ?

Trump was the ignorant one. Who called fauci a liar? Be specific!
"What Lie - the virus was air born, just like the flue" you exclaim, and then go on and on about masks and other nonsense no
Flu is short for influenza .......... no 'e'
Gov't lying about the Vax preventing Transmission ..
did you not realize, trump was the president? So pick on that SOB, not me.
and then making legislation violating essential liberty on the basis of this lie
What's your point; TRUMP was that government.



Do you now understand that the Gov't lied to you (about the vax preventing transmission) and not "follow the Science".
Sure.... Trump was in charge, that makes lies a part of each day. Fauci was one of the few that did not take trump orders as law.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
Intellectual dishonesty coupled with intellectual ignorance is the claim that one need know Hebrew to understand what a Passage in the OT states. Thats just a fact Jack .. a person can ask someone who does know Hebrew would be just one way to show this nonsense claim false.
Oh, I'm not saying just that you need to know Hebrew. You need to know biblical Hebrew and understand the bible and biblical hermeneutics. And you don't. You don't have to like it, but it is true.
YOU were the one that cried out "you don't understand the texts you bring up" -
then in the next breath you cry out "you did not cite any biblical texts" ..

Do you not understand your irrational failure in logic Rose ? You can't know that I don't understand some biblical text if you don't know what biblical text is being referred to .. thus you are spouting complete nonsense .. and in reality it is you who does not understand the Biblical Texts relating to the Amalekites if you can't find Ethnic Cleansing .. ask any Jewish Scholar .. no need to listen to my opinion.
You really need to get a handle on what you are claiming. You made reference to a biblical context. You keep alluding to biblical ideas, but you haven't cited specific text (preferably in the Hebrew if you want to understand it). You mention "Amalek" because that's the word you heard someone else talk about, not because you understand the actual reference to it that was made (it was made in Hebrew by the way...).
But no need to listen to Jewish Scholar Either .. because you are Expert in Judaism who is going to tell us all about the Amalekites and Ethnic Cleansing -- Deut 15 This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

Tell now about YOUR understanding of this passage .. .. where the Israelites are not ordered to slaughter everyone .. women, children infants.
My understanding is that in biblical times, for a variety of reasons, God stated that the people of Amalek deserved a punishment for their behavior and they were past being forgiven. So God told the people then to destroy them and never forget about it. We don't forget about it. Americans don't forget about Pearl Harbor (or the Maine, or the Alamo) but that doesn't mean that invoking Pearl Harbor means that anyone endorses a nuclear option.
Looks like my Hebrew is Just fine .. and you are the one who lacks understanding of Ethnic Cleansing in the Bible.
You still have no Hebrew to be "fine." You are working with a translation, not the text, and then taking that translation and assuming it applies beyond the biblical time. Did you know that Judaism teaches that one cannot know who is Amalek today? In that case, there can be no "ethnic cleansing" of Amalek. Oh wait, that requires logic and thinking. I'll try to dumb it down more for you:

Bible teaches that Amalek is evil so wipe them out
They aren't wiped out
Their identity as a people is lost
so there is no way we can follow the biblical rule and get rid of them
but we can remember what they did and not let ourselves be victims of evil in general.

But you will still see things the strange way you want them to be.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
I did not say that. But as usual, you make up arguments a lies, that are garbage to even address.
Really? Post 406 " israel uses US to make sure egypt blocked it up completely". And you now say that this claim of yours isn't saying that "Israel controls American policy"? Wow.
Statistically, speaking, the majority on the earth as representing in the UN have already put to writing that the illegal occupation is wrong.

Voting summary: 14 voted for; None voted against; 1 abstained

International legal opinions. At present, based on the result of numerous UN resolutions that cite Article 49 of the Geneva Convention, the consensus view of the international community is that Israeli settlements are illegal and constitute a violation of international law.
Weird. You insist that it is the "consensus view" of the international community. Is Eugene Kontorvich part of that community? He helped draft 242. Or maybe he doesn't count because he disagrees with you https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/israeli-settlements-are-not-illegal

Condemning all measures aimed at altering the demographic composition, character and status of the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, including, inter alia, the construction and expansion of settlements, transfer of Israeli settlers, confiscation of land, demolition of homes and displacement of Palestinian civilians, in violation of international humanitarian law and relevant resolutions,
How can there be "Palestinian territory" if there was never a sovereign "Palestine"?
Is that why israel has bombed the gaza stripe, jealousy?
Hey, if you would let 1000+ of your friends get killed by a surprise invasion and then just sit on your hands, then that's great. You do you. Countries often go to war because of attacks on them.
ISRAELI APARTHEID SYSTEM IS ILLEGAL: Laws Violated: International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid (1976). Link to our fact sheets on Israeli Apartheid.
Still, no apartheid.
The apartheid is wrong and you continue to rant with some kind of good that israel has done for palestine.
Like unilaterally withdrawing from Gaza (again) and leaving a strong infrastructure. Your welcome. I mean, it isn't Israel's fault that Arabs came in and ruined it
OK.... UN res 2334 does not reflect the word 'apartheid'..........


But it sure listed a bunch of UN resolutions expressing that the illegal occupation is wrong. Illegal.
So now that you are shown your mistake, you just jump to a different claim. Way to abandon your errors.

Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territory is ‘apartheid’:​

Friday that “apartheid is being practiced by Israel in the occupied Palestinian territory”.​


“Apartheid is not, sadly, a phenomenon confined to the history books on southern Africa,” Mr. Lynk said, in his report to the Human Rights Council.

“The 1998 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court came into law after the collapse of the old South Africa. It is a forward-looking legal instrument which prohibits apartheid as a crime against humanity today and into the future, wherever it may exist.”

Please look up when the apartheid will end so that no more people join HAMAS
Please look up the Rome Statute and try to find a way that it applies to a situation in which it applies to the citizens of Israel (besides the laws that favor Arabs).
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
The intellectual already know that Hebrew is not the best language to learn. The language was practically extinct until zionism started up.

With the rise of Zionism in the 19th century, the Hebrew language experienced a full-scale revival as a spoken and literary language, after which it became the main language of the Yishuv in Palestine,

Having ceased to be a dead language in the 19th century, today's Hebrew serves as the only successful large-scale example of linguistic revival. It is the only non-extinct Canaanite language, and is also one of only two Northwest Semitic languages still spoken, with the other being Aramaic.


Why did Hebrew become extinct?



Hebrew: A Dead Language Revived - Unpacked


But when the Romans destroyed the second Jewish Temple in 70 CE, Hebrew began to die out. It was essentially completely dead 65 years later in 135,


Documents which are at the core of the Jewish relational experience are written in Aramaic, not Hebrew.

Though it is commonly thought that the Torah, or Jewish holy book, is written in Hebrew, this is not actually the case. The text was written in a form of Aramaic, which was the common language of the Persian empire during the seventh century BCE.

However, by the 4th century BCE, Aramaic had become the dominant language spoken by the Jewish people. Thus, many of the later books of the Bible were written in Aramaic. The text of the Torah has been copied by hand over and over again for thousands of years.



That arrogance that you own torah, the commandments or the USE of the doctrine is getting old.

The Aramaic languages are now considered endangered, and considered a dead language since several varieties are used mainly by the older generations.
Wow, what a load of wacky tripe! First, Hebrew has never been a dead language. Modern conversational Hebrew is the latest iteration of Hebrew but there are many forms of it that are and have been used daily for thousands of years.

The loony part is "
Documents which are at the core of the Jewish relational experience are written in Aramaic, not Hebrew."
What documents? The Babylonian Talmud (which is a mix of Hebrew and Aramaic)? The Jerusalem Talmud (much more Hebrew there) or the various codes of law (most written in Hebrew)?

Then the claim that the Torah was written in Aramaic? Wow. Much of the book of Daniel is is Aramaic. Most of the Jewish biblical canon is in Hebrew. Just compare the languages of the bulk of Daniel and any book in the 5 books of Moses. Different languages (assuming one can read and understand, but you don't think that is necessary).

You are copying and pasting bizarre and easily disproven lies but you latch on to them because you need them in order to maintain your crumbling world view.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
An "Argument" can not claim to cite anything Rose .
Um, sure it can. When one makes an argument and says "you didn't respond to the text I cited or read the website I linked to" then that argument is making a claim to citation. If that citation content is lacking then that presents a problem for the argument.
In the case at hand Rose .. we have a person claiming that another does not understand the cited text .. yet this person has not read the cited text
Who says I haven't. Maybe I just know what it really means so I know that the claims being made which allude to the text don't understand it.
, nor do they know what text in the Bible is being referred to .. and in fact later claiming that there was no citation to begin with.. so the original claim is ridiculously false . this person can't possibly have any idea of that persons understanding of the cited text.
If I say "the Constitution says that drinking coffee is illegal" then even if someone doesn't have the citation in which you claim that that this law exists, if someone knows the whole constitution and knows it isn't in there, then that person can make the counter claim.
In the present .. you were going to enhance our understanding - using the cited text where YHWH orders the wholesale slaughter of entire towns . men, women, children, babies and fetuses -- of Ethnic Cleansing in the Bible - using the Amalakites ..and the townspeople of King Sihon as examples .. where Ethnic Cleansing occured
There are cases in the text in which God commands killing entire groups during the biblical Exodus and conquest of the land of K'na'an. If you want to call that ethnic cleansing, go ahead. Feel free to be angry at God.
.. then relate this Cleansing to what has been happening to the Palestinians for the last 70 years
I can't. there is no relationship.
.. Those dirty subhuman Arabs infesting the land .. according to the Zionist Crew
Really? I'm a Zionist and have never said that. In Israel, Arabs seem very happy and their numbers have increased. So why would you assume anyone calls them subhuman?
.. but thats just the way things were back in the day of the Nakba .. when racial cleansing was more of an acceptible practice
Oh, like the expulsion of 800,000 Jews from Arab countries?
.. but don't let me go on further .. we are all excited to hear your understanding of the previously cited Text about the Amalekites .. .. and King Sihon of Deut 2

“Then the Lord said to me, ‘Look, I have made King Sihon and his land helpless before you; take his land and occupy it.’ 32 Sihon came out with all his men to fight us near the town of Jahaz, 33 but the Lord our God put him in our power, and we killed him, his sons, and all his men. 34 At the same time we captured and destroyed every town, and put everyone to death, men, women, and children. We left no survivors. 35 We took the livestock and plundered the towns. 36 The Lord our God let us capture all the towns from Aroer, on the edge of the Arnon Valley, and the city in the middle of that valley, all the way to Gilead.
Ah yes, biblical times. Good time...of course, we aren't in biblical times now, but if you want to be angry at the biblical God and let that influence your choice of religions, good luck.
Kind of reminiscent "From the River to the Sea" if you ask me .. but no matter my opinion .. put my thoughts aside .. we all want to hear about your understanding of this homicide .. this cleansing of the land .. of all its indigenous inhabitants ..
Do I feel particularly bad for the Jebusites? No, not really. Do you know any Jebusites who are angry with me for that? Any Girga****es?
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
Oh, I'm not saying just that you need to know Hebrew. You need to know biblical Hebrew and understand the bible and biblical hermeneutics. And you don't. You don't have to like it, but it is true.
It may be true to you but not me or mankind.
You really need to get a handle on what you are claiming. You made reference to a biblical context. You keep alluding to biblical ideas, but you haven't cited specific text (preferably in the Hebrew if you want to understand it). You mention "Amalek" because that's the word you heard someone else talk about, not because you understand the actual reference to it that was made (it was made in Hebrew by the way...).
I cannot make you stop trying to insult me.
My understanding is that in biblical times, for a variety of reasons, God stated that the people of Amalek deserved a punishment for their behavior and they were past being forgiven.
I get it, just like the prophets spoke of things yet to happen.
So God told the people then to destroy them and never forget about it. We don't forget about it.
OK............. but then you contradict yourself. Likewise, you have no first position memory about Amalek. Only what you are taught to claim.
Did you know that Judaism teaches that one cannot know who is Amalek today?
So then why do you claim too know?
In that case, there can be no "ethnic cleansing" of Amalek. Oh wait, that requires logic and thinking. I'll try to dumb it down more for you:
But naksa is ethnic cleansing................
The Naksa, which led to Israel's occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in 1967, displaced 350,000 Palestinians. “Israel has already carried out mass ethnic cleansing of Palestinians under the fog of war,” the expert said.

Bible teaches that Amalek is evil so wipe them out
They aren't wiped out
How would you know.........?

You wrote:
"" Did you know that Judaism teaches that one cannot know who is Amalek today? """
Their identity as a people is lost
so there is no way we can follow the biblical rule and get rid of them
So then why are you still arguing on the topic? You have no idea what amalek is nor care but you are definitely trying to attack me.
but we can remember what they did and not let ourselves be victims of evil in general.
You do not remember what Amalek did, you have learned what you were told.


The evil is what israel created from apartheid and illegal occupation. That is real world, here and now.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
"Ignorant Dr Fauci" Notice the quotation marks friend = this is not me claiming Dr Fauci is ignorant ... it is addressing t you posted - and told you in previous post .. Dr. Fauci was called a liar .. not an ignorant Dr. so why are you still trying to pretend that he was called ignorant ?

"What Lie - the virus was air born, just like the flue" you exclaim, and then go on and on about masks and other nonsense not related to the Gov't lying about the Vax preventing Transmission .. and then making legislation violating essential liberty on the basis of this lie.

Do you now understand that the Gov't lied to you (about the vax preventing transmission) and not "follow the Science".

Oh, I'm not saying just that you need to know Hebrew. You need to know biblical Hebrew and understand the bible and biblical hermeneutics. And you don't. You don't have to like it, but it is true.

You really need to get a handle on what you are claiming. You made reference to a biblical context. You keep alluding to biblical ideas, but you haven't cited specific text (preferably in the Hebrew if you want to understand it). You mention "Amalek" because that's the word you heard someone else talk about, not because you understand the actual reference to it that was made (it was made in Hebrew by the way...).

My understanding is that in biblical times, for a variety of reasons, God stated that the people of Amalek deserved a punishment for their behavior and they were past being forgiven. So God told the people then to destroy them and never forget about it. We don't forget about it. Americans don't forget about Pearl Harbor (or the Maine, or the Alamo) but that doesn't mean that invoking Pearl Harbor means that anyone endorses a nuclear option.

You still have no Hebrew to be "fine." You are working with a translation, not the text, and then taking that translation and assuming it applies beyond the biblical time. Did you know that Judaism teaches that one cannot know who is Amalek today? In that case, there can be no "ethnic cleansing" of Amalek. Oh wait, that requires logic and thinking. I'll try to dumb it down more for you:

Bible teaches that Amalek is evil so wipe them out
They aren't wiped out
Their identity as a people is lost
so there is no way we can follow the biblical rule and get rid of them
but we can remember what they did and not let ourselves be victims of evil in general.

But you will still see things the strange way you want them to be.

I don't need to know any Hebrew, as you are going to tell us what this passage means .. being an expert in Judaism. You say I havn't cited a text .. but I have cited a number of Biblical Texts .. here is the one about King Sihon .. where the Israelites are ethnically cleansing the land .. well more like genocide I suppose .. worse than ethnic cleansing .. Deut 2 -

32 When Sihon and all his army came out to meet us in battle at Jahaz, 33 the Lord our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. 34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed[c] them—men, women and children. We left no survivors. 35 But the livestock and the plunder from the towns we had captured we carried off for ourselves.


Whats difficult to understand ? .. The Israelites killed everyone .. all the townspeople .. men, women, children, babies and fetuses .. leaving no survivers .. but kept the livestock and plunder.

are you going to try and claim that in your Hebrew Understanding the Israelites did not slaughter everyone ? Please tell us what the ancient Hebrew version states .. show where my understanding of the text differs as you claim.
 
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rosends

Well-Known Member
It may be true to you but not me or mankind.
You speak for mankind now? LOL!
I cannot make you stop trying to insult me.
well, you could reduce the instances by responding to what I wrote to YOU, not to someone else. Unless you are using 2 handles...
OK............. but then you contradict yourself. Likewise, you have no first position memory about Amalek. Only what you are taught to claim.
How does that contradict anything? The text says not to forget what the text relates, so I don't forget it. What does that contradict?
So then why do you claim too know?
Where do I claim to know?
But naksa is ethnic cleansing................
The Naksa, which led to Israel's occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in 1967, displaced 350,000 Palestinians. “Israel has already carried out mass ethnic cleansing of Palestinians under the fog of war,” the expert said.
Not "Naksa" -- that is something very different.
You really need to be more careful when you type

How would you know.........?
Because the biblical text, specifically, the story of Sha'ul and Agag says so. Don't you know the bible?
So then why are you still arguing on the topic? You have no idea what amalek is nor care but you are definitely trying to attack me.
The claim is being made that Jews are doing something along the lines of what was done to Amalek or in some way connected to that and it isn't true. You want me to sit here while make uninformed and offensive misrepresentations of both the bible and current events? No thanks. I'll call out the mistakes.
The evil is what israel created from apartheid and illegal occupation. That is real world, here and now.
that is certainly your belief.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
I don't need to know any Hebrew, as you are going to tell us what this passage means .. being an expert in Judaism. You say I havn't cited a text .. but I have cited a number of Biblical Texts .. here is the one about King Sihon .. where the Israelites are ethnically cleansing the land .. well more like genocide I suppose .. worse than ethnic cleansing .. Deut 2 -

32 When Sihon and all his army came out to meet us in battle at Jahaz, 33 the Lord our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. 34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed[c] them—men, women and children. We left no survivors. 35 But the livestock and the plunder from the towns we had captured we carried off for ourselves.


Whats difficult to understand ? .. The Israelites killed everyone .. all the townspeople .. men, women, children, babies and fetuses .. leaving no survivers .. but kept the livestock and plunder.

are you going to try and claim that in your Hebrew Understanding the Israelites did not slaughter everyone ? Please tell us what the ancient Hebrew version states .. show where my understanding of the text differs as you claim.
I already discussed what happened in the biblical text. You should now be angry with God and deny any and everything about God. I await your righteous indignation at the events of the bible, all those years ago. Have at it.
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
It's 403'd for me. Anyone else?
Here's some of the text of it; it's too long to post.


For me, as a historian, it is important to put the current events in the correct historical context and to diagnose as best we can their deeper causes. A misdiagnosis of such causes, or a denial of them altogether, will only make things worse. It would appear that precisely because of this misdiagnosis or denial, Israel is currently balanced over a precipice, as an increasing number of well-informed commentators are warning (see for instance Thomas Friedman’s op-ed in the NYT). The potential for a regional, if not world-wide conflict, is growing. Making things worse is Israel’s forced displacement of over a million civilians—the majority of whom are Palestinian refugees of the 1948 Nakba and their descendants—from their homes in the northern part of Gaza to the southern part, even as the IDF is now reducing much of that northern part to rubble. By most accounts it has already killed ten times as many Palestinians, including numerous children (who make up 50% of the overall population there), as those murdered by Hamas. Most recently, displaced Gazans in the eastern part of the southern Strip have been ordered to move to its western part, adding even more to the congestion. This military policy is creating an untenable humanitarian crisis, which will only worsen over time. The population of Gaza has nowhere to go, and its infrastructure is being demolished.

In justifying these actions, Israeli leaders and generals have made terrifying pronouncements. On October 7, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that Gazans would pay a “huge price” for the attack by Hamas, and that the IDF would turn parts of Gaza’s densely populated urban centers “into rubble.” On Oct. 28, he added, citing Deuteronomy, “You must remember what Amalek did to you.” As many Israelis know, in revenge for the attack by Amalek, the Bible calls to “kill alike men and women, infants and sucklings.” Israeli President Yitzhak Herzog condemned all Palestinians in Gaza: “It is an entire nation out there that is responsible. It is not true this rhetoric about civilians not being aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true.” Israeli Minister of Energy and Infrastructure Israel Katz similarly stated: “No electrical switch will be turned on, no water hydrant will be opened and no fuel truck will enter, until the abductees return home.” Member of Knesset Ariel Kallner wrote on social media on October 7: “Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of ‘48. Nakba in Gaza and Nakba to anyone who dares to join!” No one in the government denounced that statement. Instead, on November 11, security cabinet member and Agriculture Minister Avi Dichter reiterated: “We are now rolling out the Gaza Nakba.”

Israel’s defense minister, Yoav Gallant, stated on October 9, “we are fighting human animals and we will act accordingly,” a statement indicating a dehumanization of people that has genocidal echoes. He later announced that he had “removed every restriction” on Israeli forces, and that “Gaza won’t return to what it was before. We will eliminate everything.” On October 10, the head of the Israeli army’s Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories (COGAT), Major General Ghassan Alian, addressed the population of Gaza in Arabic, stating: “Human animals must be treated as such. There will be no electricity and no water, there will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell.” The same day, Israeli army spokesperson Daniel Hagari announced that in the bombing campaign in Gaza, “the emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy.” Also on October 10, Major General Giora Eiland wrote in the mass circulation daily Yedioth Ahronoth: “The State of Israel has no choice but to turn Gaza into a place that is temporarily or permanently impossible to live in,” adding that “Creating a severe humanitarian crisis in Gaza is a necessary means to achieving the goal,” and that “Gaza will become a place where no human being can exist.”

In another article in the same newspaper, on November 19, Eiland wrote: “Israel is not fighting against a terrorist organization but against the state of Gaza.” Hamas, he argued, “managed to mobilize… the support of most of its state’s inhabitants… with full support of its ideology. In this sense, Gaza is very similar to Nazi Germany.” This led him to conclude that “the fighting should be conducted accordingly.” To his mind, “the way to win this war faster and at a lower cost to us necessitates the collapse of the systems on the other side, not the killing of more Hamas fighters. The international community warns us of a humanitarian disaster in Gaza and of severe epidemics. We must not be deterred by that.” Indeed, “severe epidemics in the southern Strip will bring victory closer and diminish the number of IDF casualties.” Eiland insisted that “when senior Israeli officials say to the media ‘it’s either us or them,’ we should clarify who ‘they’ are. ‘They’ are not only the armed Hamas fighters but… all the Gazan population that enthusiastically supported Hamas and cheered the atrocities that occurred on October 7.”

Again, no army spokesperson or politician has denounced these genocidal statements. I could quote many more. When asked by Sky News “What about those Palestinians in hospital who are on life support and babies in incubators whose life support and incubator will have to be turned off because the Israelis have cut the power to Gaza?” former Israeli prime minister Naftali Bennett shouted back: “Are you seriously… asking me about Palestinian civilians? What’s wrong with you? Have you not seen what happened? We’re fighting Nazis.”

In brief, Israeli rhetoric and actions are preparing the ground for what may well become mass killing, ethnic cleansing, and genocide, followed by annexation and settlement of the territory. In that spirit, the Kohelet Policy Forum, an arch-conservative think-tank with deep roots in the United States, which was closely engaged in the judicial overhaul plans launched by Netanyahu’s government in February 2023, is now refashioning itself as part of a supposedly humanitarian effort to “relocate” Palestinian refugees from Gaza to other countries around the world where they will, it suggests, live much better lives, thereby leaving the Gaza Strip to Jewish settlers. In the same spirit, one IDF Captain was filmed on November 9 on a beach in Gaza proclaiming to young officers: “We returned, we were expelled from here almost 20 years ago [when Israel unilaterally evacuated its settlements in the Gaza Strip]. We started this battle divided and ended it united. We are fighting for the Land of Israel. This is our land! And that is the victory, to return to our lands.”

There are many other members of the government, the Knesset, and the military who would like to see the Palestinian people, as such, disappear from the map and from consciousness. This has not happened yet and can be prevented. The United States is still pushing for a two-state solution. But under the circumstances, it is crucial to keep warning against the potential for genocide before it happens, rather than belatedly condemning it after it has already taken place.

Since the full-scale invasion of Gaza by the IDF, losses among the civilian population have constantly risen. And while the military has initially made faster progress than anticipated, the likelihood of it becoming bogged down in Gaza remains considerable, and Hizballah is using this as an opportunity to intensify its attacks in the north. This may mean that Israel will face not only a military but also a growing economic crisis with hundreds of thousand of men and women in reserve service rather than at their work places, and international support rapidly eroding.
<edit for length>
Yet such a policy course by Israel appears highly unlikely now, especially under the current political leadership, which is just as extreme as it is incompetent. At this point, not least because of the heated rhetoric in Israel, even from quite a few left-wing commentators appalled by the massacre of October 7, it is crucial for moral pressure to be brought to bear on Israeli policymakers and the public to desist from ever more actions that are bound to result in war crimes, crimes against humanity, ethnic cleansing, and even genocide.

In the decades after World War II and the defeat of Nazism and fascism, historians and other intellectuals often berated their predecessors for having lacked the courage to stand up to their governments and popular sentiments and to have failed to warn against what they clearly saw was about to happen. As a historian of the Holocaust, I have called upon the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, DC, and Yad Vashem in Jerusalem, to stand in the forefront of those warning against Israeli breaches of human rights and international law, currently being legitimized by Israeli political and military leaders, talking heads on television, and social media. I have urged those who dedicate themselves to researching and commemorating the Holocaust to warn against the dehumanizing rhetoric in Israel directed at the population of Gaza that literally calls for its extinction. I have also called upon them to condemn the escalating violence on the West Bank, perpetrated by incited settlers and IDF troops, which is similarly inclining toward ethnic cleansing under the cover of the war in Gaza. But for now, all we hear from these scholars is silence.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
A site that sides with Russia in calling Ukraine "Nazi"?
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
I already discussed what happened in the biblical text. You should now be angry with God and deny any and everything about God. I await your righteous indignation at the events of the bible, all those years ago. Have at it.

There was no disagreement in your discussion with my understanding of the Text in fact you concurred with my understanding .. The people in Amalekite towns were slaughtered .. men, women, childern, babies and fetuses. .. Ethnic Cleansing 101 - Genocide actually.

Bible teaches that Amalek is evil so wipe them out

and wiped out they were .... ethnically cleansed .. by every legal definition .. sans the one's the Israeli's make up on the fly .. as does every warring nation.

Previously you denied "Ethnic Cleansing" now you agree .. and no legitimate definition requires every single member of "The other" be wiped out to fit the definition of Ethnic Cleansing -- don't need to get rid of all the indigenous population to be Genocide .. although the Israelits back in the day were commanded to do so.

You then say something strange saying "You should now be angry with God" and then requested some righteous indignation.

Why would I be angry with Lord YHWH ? This is not my God .. nor the God of Jesus .. nor of Abraham.. If this is your God .. then it is you who should be angry at the slaughter of innocent children .. and the flip flopping commands .. one day the child is to be killed for the sins of the father .. punished down to the third and fourth generation .. next day its Children are not to be killed for the sins of the father .. each for his own sin .. but that is your issue to condend with .. this Loki like behavior and this trickster like nature of this Jealous God with some of the more base human Characteristics.

I prefer the God of Abe and Jesus to Lord YHWH .. so no anger from my end.
 

Orbit

I'm a planet
Over the past two days on twitter, I have seen (from reputable sources, you can Google which one interests you, I'm sure you'll find it).

-Israel violating the ceasefire by shooting Palestinians in both Gaza and in the West Bank. In Gaza, then shooting at the ambulances who arrive to help the person who was shot. (BBC; Al Jazeera)

-Israeli police/IDF invading the homes of the Palestinian children released as part of the hostage swap, confiscating candy and cakes, removing their relatives, and telling them if there are any "expressions of joy, which is a support of terrorism", that they will re-arrest the released child.

-Seen pictures of Palestinian streets in Hebron where they had to put nets over the streets because their Israeli neighbors throw garbage at them.

-Multiple reports of Palestinian hospitals being raided, and people shot, in the West Bank

-The head of the Gazan Al-Shifa hospital was kidnapped by the IDF. No one knows anything else.

-Israeli settlers, armed, and with IDF looking on, doing nothing, beat, evict from their homes, and sometimes shoot Palestinians in the West Bank.

-Found out that Israel locks up Palestinian children as young as 9 under apartheid laws that allow for indefinite detention, and when trials occur they are before a military court, charges are often trumped up (stone throwing, "approving of terrorism" etc) and there is 99.5% conviction rate. The penalty for stone throwing is 20 years. Dickens, anyone?

-Texts and phone calls from the IDF to journalists in Gaza, saying "if you just write a story condemning Hamas all of this will go away." Israel has killed over 60 journalists, and sometimes their entire families.

-Three Palestinian students in Vermont were shot by a white guy for wearing keffiyahs on the way to dinner.

In other news:
1,000+ members of Jewish Voices for Peace are blocking an NYC bridge demanding a ceasefire, and there are lots of protests everywhere.

60% of Americans and 80% of Democrats support a ceasefire.
 
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Sargonski

Well-Known Member
I already discussed what happened in the biblical text. You should now be angry with God and deny any and everything about God. I await your righteous indignation at the events of the bible, all those years ago. Have at it.

There was no disagreement in your discussion with my understanding of the Text in fact you concurred with my understanding .. The people in Amalekite towns were slaughtered .. men, women, childern, babies and fetuses. .. Ethnic Cleansing 101 - Genocide actually.

Bible teaches that Amalek is evil so wipe them out

and wiped out they were .... ethnically cleansed .. by every legal definition .. sans the one's the Israeli's make up on the fly .. as does every warring nation.

Previously you denied "Ethnic Cleansing" now you agree .. and no legitimate definition requires every single member of "The other" be wiped out to fit the definition of Ethnic Cleansing -- don't need to get rid of all the indigenous population to be Genocide .. although the Israelits back in the day were commanded to do so.

You then say something strange saying "You should now be angry with God" and then requested some righteous indignation.

Why would I be angry with Lord YHWH ? This is not my God .. nor the God of Jesus .. nor of Abraham.. If this is your God .. then it is you who should be angry at the slaughter of innocent children .. and the flip flopping commands .. one day the child is to be killed for the sins of the father .. punished down to the third and fourth generation .. next day its Children are not to be killed for the sins of the father .. each for his own sin .. but that is your issue to condend with .. this Loki like behavior and this trickster like nature of this Jealous God with some of the more base human Characteristics.

I prefer the God of Abe and Jesus to Lord YHWH .. so no anger from my end.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Trump was the ignorant one. Who called fauci a liar? Be specific!

Flu is short for influenza .......... no 'e'

did you not realize, trump was the president? So pick on that SOB, not me.

What's your point; TRUMP was that government.




Sure.... Trump was in charge, that makes lies a part of each day. Fauci was one of the few that did not take trump orders as law.

Not sure why you are going on about Trump .. the Fauci Lies and suppression of lab leak hypothesis has nothing to do with everybody's favorite pinata ?

nor does Trump have anything to do the lies told by the Blue team about the Vax and Covid. Trump had nothing to do with the big Transmission prevention lie -- or the censorship of Social media. It wasn't Trump who sent the spooks over to Facebook on a mission.

This walk down authoritarian lane was with Biden not Trump -- Forced medical Treatment .. justified on the basis of a lie .. your body no longer your choice .. storm troopers are on the way if you try to protest these violations and illegitimacy of authority - anyone dissenting from the party line .. "up against the wall" - get ready for the GITMO treatment.

Not saying Trump would mind .. but this is the doing of Biden Blue and the woke team in cancel mode .. canceling the Rule of Law .. and a whole bunch of other stuff..

Unfortunately the Transmission trope was a big lie .. one used to justify .. big violations of liberty and apple pie ..
 
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