Idols

[Sunstone]

If a belief has, at best, the same relationship to reality that a map has to its terrain*, then would worshiping a belief be the same as having an idol? Why or why not?

When we worship god how do we know we are worshiping god and not just our beliefs about god?

Suppose, when I am worshiping god, I am also thinking of god (that is, I have a concept of god, a concept of what I am worshiping). If that is the case, then am I not worshiping my belief rather than god? Am I not worshiping the map, rather than the terrain?

Can I worship god without experiencing god? Can I worship the terrain without experiencing the terrain?



__________________________

* A map can be thought of as a way of stating (or symbolizing) the notion that "x is the case". "The map shows the tree is 500 feet from the house."

A belief can be thought of as a proposition stating (or symbolizing) the notion that "x is the case". "I believe the tree is 500 feet from the house."

Therefore, there seem to be at least some similarities between maps and beliefs.

 

[chinu]

When we worship god how do we know we are worshiping god and not just our beliefs about god?

If your demand is Money or Health or Wealth or Any wordly things, than you are not the customer of "God", you are the customer of "Things created by God", means for you "His" created things are "God".

If your demand is "God" from "God" or "Salvation", than either you may stand in Temple or Masjid or Church or Buddh temple or Gurwadra, You are the real customer of "God".

One should not notice, What are my beliefs.
One should notice, Why are my beliefs.

_/\_
Chinu

 

[atanu]

If a belief has, at best, the same relationship to reality that a map has to its terrain*, then would worshiping a belief be the same as having an idol? Why or why not?

When we worship god how do we know we are worshiping god and not just our beliefs about god?

Suppose, when I am worshiping god, I am also thinking of god (that is, I have a concept of god, a concept of what I am worshiping). If that is the case, then am I not worshiping my belief rather than god? Am I not worshiping the map, rather than the terrain?

Can I worship god without experiencing god? Can I worship the terrain without experiencing the terrain?



__________________________

* A map can be thought of as a way of stating (or symbolizing) the notion that "x is the case". "The map shows the tree is 500 feet from the house."

A belief can be thought of as a proposition stating (or symbolizing) the notion that "x is the case". "I believe the tree is 500 feet from the house."

Therefore, there seem to be at least some similarities between maps and beliefs.

An excellent question, IMO. At least in some cases, a map is seen as guide (a set of procedures or a set of intellectual pointers or a teacher) and in those cases a map is very useful.

...

 

[Gaura Priya]

I think the one thing that transcends beliefs, is direct experience. The true mystic experiences the Divine in all things, and no longer is trapped in the Kingdom of Names, but beyond that realm and into the realm of Poverty and Absolute Nothingness... far from nothing, it is where the Lover and the Beloved experience that exchange of Love.

Baha'u'llah often spoke of the idols of superstition and false imaginations... and thus even our beliefs may become dogmatic over time... the mystic seeks transcendence in all places and all environments, that the manifesting of the Divine's portents and signs are seen in all things.

By very nature, the transcendent reality is full of life and animate; it is dynamic, not stagnant; living-giving and quickening, and not lethargic or dead.


"O SON OF DUST!
Blind thine eyes, that thou mayest behold My beauty; stop thine ears, that thou mayest hearken unto the sweet melody of My voice; empty thyself of all learning, that thou mayest partake of My knowledge; and sanctify thyself from riches, that thou mayest obtain a lasting share from the ocean of My eternal wealth. Blind thine eyes, that is, to all save My beauty; stop thine ears to all save My word; empty thyself of all learning save the knowledge of Me; that with a clear vision, a pure heart and an attentive ear thou mayest enter the court of My holiness."


-- Hidden Word II:11

 

[blackout]

If a belief has, at best, the same relationship to reality that a map has to its terrain*, then would worshiping a belief be the same as having an idol? Why or why not?

When we worship god how do we know we are worshiping god and not just our beliefs about god?

Suppose, when I am worshiping god, I am also thinking of god (that is, I have a concept of god, a concept of what I am worshiping). If that is the case, then am I not worshiping my belief rather than god? Am I not worshiping the map, rather than the terrain?

Can I worship god without experiencing god? Can I worship the terrain without experiencing the terrain?



__________________________

* A map can be thought of as a way of stating (or symbolizing) the notion that "x is the case". "The map shows the tree is 500 feet from the house."

A belief can be thought of as a proposition stating (or symbolizing) the notion that "x is the case". "I believe the tree is 500 feet from the house."

Therefore, there seem to be at least some similarities between maps and beliefs.

Sure, why not? Idols are often Icons embodying "beliefs" anyway.

In either sense,
one can "bow down" to "characters", things, ideas, ideals, terrains, maps or beliefs.
one can "shape one's Self" to "characters", things, ideas, ideals, terrains, maps or beliefs.

(I have a feeling though, that I'm missing some other distinction that you are making...)

 

[Intrigued]

Thats a good opening post! I have never thought about it like that.

 

[Sunstone]

(I have a feeling though, that I'm missing some other distinction that you are making...)

Is it possible to worship god if we have in our heads at the time of worship a notion of god -- any notion of god, no matter how seemingly profound? Is it possible to worship god under those circumstances, or would we only be worshiping our notion of god?

 

[Willamena]

Is it possible to worship god if we have in our heads at the time of worship a notion of god -- any notion of god, no matter how seemingly profound? Is it possible to worship god under those circumstances, or would we only be worshiping our notion of god?

What does it mean "to worship" in this instance?

 

[kutulu]

to worship anything is to idolize it...

 

[sandandfoam]

Can I worship god without experiencing god? Can I worship the terrain without experiencing the terrain?

The only terrain is that which each of us generate. It's impossible not to experience God as each of us are god - we are the genesis of our own universes.
Whatever I do or do not worship springs from my own mind. There is, for me, no knowable territory beyond mind. I am a map maker. A map maker following a rabbit down a rabbit hole. A rabbit hole with no apparent bottom.