If Christ comes today, how do you know it is really Him?

[CG Didymus]

I'm not defending the credibility of the gospels. I'm not a believing Christian anymore but I can't bear seeing scripture being butchered like this.

Baha'is won't see it any other way, because their religion depends on a physically dead Jesus. The spirit of Jesus appearing they can deal with.

But it is amazing how literal Baha'is can be about the Bible and the NT when it's something that supports their view. He walked, talked, ate, and was touched by the disciples... but that's symbolic. He said they see him no more in the world? That is literal. And Baha'is believe in the virgin birth. I don't see why? I still don't understand why they don't make that symbolic too.

 

[PearlSeeker]

So, let's say, "thief in the night" means, He comes suddenly and no one other than the Father know which day.

1. What difference does it make, whether one watches or does not watch? I suppose there must make a difference to watch, since Jesus emphasized to watch, right?

2. What does He mean by watching? Like keep looking at sky?

2. What difference does it make, to know, that He comes like a thief without anyone knowing?

Watching is not looking at sky. It's looking after your heart.

Philippians 1
9 And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment,
10 so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ,
11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

Luke 21:34
34 "But watch yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap.

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

Matthew 25
31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

Acts 3
19 Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out,
20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus,
21 whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.

Acts 17
30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,
31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think those means, the people will have new names.

What people?

Isaiah 62:2 says: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

Sorry, I don't think so, for example because:

who also said, Men, Galileans, why do you stand looking up to the heaven? This Jesus, the One being taken from you into the heaven, will come in the way you saw Him going into the heaven.
Acts 1:11

Acts 1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Below is my interpretation of those verses.
The disciples were staring up into the sky as the spirit of Jesus was taken up to heaven out of their sight. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky because they wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky. Then the angels told the disciples that the same spirit of Jesus that was taken up to heaven will return just as it went to heaven, in like manner.

The verse does not say that the disciples saw a body go up. It was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits.

Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of a human being. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Baha’u’llah descended in like manner, from the heaven of the will of God.

I have understood his kingdom is in the people:

Being asked by the Pharisees when God’s Kingdom would come, he answered them, “God’s Kingdom doesn’t come with observation; neither will they say, ‘Look, here!’ or, ‘Look, there!’ for behold, God’s Kingdom is within you.”
Luke 17:20-21

I agree. God’s Kingdom is within His people, in a spiritual sense, but I also believe that God's Kingdom will come to earth, after it is built by God's people, and it will be a physical reality.

 

[CG Didymus]

Acts 17
30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,
31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.

And what "assurance" was given if God didn't raise Jesus physically from the dead? Where is the miracle of letting his body rot away and see "corruption", if only his spirit rose? Baha'is believe that everybody's spirit rises.

So still, the problem is Baha'is can't have a physically risen Jesus. For me the easiest way for them to solve that is to say it was a hoax. The disciples and the gospel writers made it all up. But... Baha'is can't say that either. They need Jesus to be a manifestation of God. The stories have to be true. So, Baha'is make them true... just not literally true, but symbolically true. And that explanation works for them.

 

[Trailblazer]

So still, the problem is Baha'is can't have a physically risen Jesus.

Baha'is could have a physically risen Jesus and it would not change anything, since that Jesus would still die eventually, just like the rest of us.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Baha'is could have a physically risen Jesus and it would not change anything, since that Jesus would still die eventually, just like the rest of us.

Nope.

1 Corinthians 15
42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If Christ comes today, how do you know it is really Him, and not a fake one?

Assuming this christ is the all-powerful creator of the universe, I'ld say that there will be no room for doubt.
So IF there is ANY reason for doubt, then that alone would be conclusive evidence that he's not that all-knowing, all-powerful creator of the universe and all it contains.

 

[1213]

What people?

Isaiah 62:2 says: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

I had to read it again. Sorry, I was wrong, it seems to be speaking about Jerusalem.

For Zion's sake, I will not be silent; and for Jerusalem's sake, I will not rest; until her righteousness goes forth as brightness, and her salvation as a burning lamp. And nations shall see your righteousness, and all kings your glory. And you shall be called by a new name which the mouth of Jehovah shall name. You also shall be a crown of beauty in the hand of Jehovah, and a royal diadem in the palm of your God. You no longer shall be called Forsaken; nor shall your land any longer be called Desolate. But you shall be called, My Delight is in Her; and your land, Married. For Jehovah delights in you, and your land is married. For as a young man marries a virgin, so shall your sons marry you. And as a bridegroom rejoices over the bride, so your God shall rejoice over you. I have set watchmen on your walls, O Jerusalem. All the day and all the night they shall not always be silent; you who remember Jehovah, do not let a pause be to you. And give no pause to Him until He sets up and makes Jerusalem a praise in the earth.
Isaiah 62:1-7

The verse does not say that the disciples saw a body go up.

Sorry, I understand it was him in his new body.

I also believe that God's Kingdom will come to earth

I believe it is already here, in the people.

 

[1213]

How could it be visible to all given all people cannot be at the same place at the same time?

I would emphasize the, it will not go unnoticed. But, I don't know what exactly it will look like. I am just sure, you wont miss to see it.

 

[1213]

Ok, but how though? How would Christ come in a way that every eye shall see Him? And why He said "watch"? Why would people need to watch, if when He comes, it will be easily noticeable anyways?

Sorry, what scripture you mean, where did he say "watch", regarding his return?

I suppose this is a puzzle. Maybe some Christians do not think it is necessary to really solve it. But, what if, Jesus was speaking in parables? Maybe He did not really mean literally.

When he spoke about parables, it was clear from the text. Nothing in the scriptures indicates he meant his return is some kind of parable.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Assuming this christ is the all-powerful creator of the universe, I'ld say that there will be no room for doubt.
So IF there is ANY reason for doubt, then that alone would be conclusive evidence that he's not that all-knowing, all-powerful creator of the universe and all it contains.

Is that how it happened 2000 years ago?

Regards Tony

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Is that how it happened 2000 years ago?

Regards Tony

Since there were doubters back then.....

I think you can see what my conclusion is.

 

[PearlSeeker]

The verse does not say that the disciples saw a body go up. It was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits.

Luke 24
36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost.
38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds?
39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

1 John 4
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.

 

[Nakosis]

If Christ comes today, how do you know it is really Him, and not a fake one?

I ran into an incarnate of Christ once and the thing is you can't. That is where faith comes in.
Faith is a gamble of the ignorant. You roll the dice and hope. You have to wait to see how it plays out having faith that you made the correct choice.

 

[Sargonski]

If Christ comes today, how do you know it is really Him?​

He'd be black, wearing a head scarf and come over the border from Mexico - in fact he's probably already been turned back

Only those that know "Da Trut" - See him come. I tell you a secret - When get through pearly gates .. what song they play on your arrival back your friends they all welcome you back from your vacation .. ask you how things went in the Milky Way Galaxy ..

You think on that for a bit --- which Song .. then after that .. gonna go hang our .. maybe watch some TV - millions of reality TV shows .. millions of worlds .. Check out which one you might wanna visit on next vacation .. remembering that while there are few rules in heaven .. the vacation rule is one of them - which is simply that when to on vacation they give you the Blue Pill .. you go sleep .. when wake up .. your soul has been transported into some fleshy vessel awaiting at the vacation spot .. but you will not remember heaven or your past vacations. Sometimes folks get a glimmer but in general no one is remembering nutting.

Now .. What this has to do with Christs Return .. "The Secret" .. which already you were given part. Tell you now about heavenly rule 2. You see, back in the day .. every soul the "Supreme one" would meet .. do nothing but blow smoke up the old guys backside 24/7 .. prasing .. Hallelujah .. it got really boring and tiring after a Trillion or so years .. so made a rule --- "Absolutely NO Praising Da Most High" and that was that ..

So ... if you see the Big Guy .. walking around as normally does in Sandals smoking a pipe full of Heavenly Hash .. Just be Cool ... Jah Rasta ain't gonna bite.

And now you know .. when comes down to earth this White Guy Rasta divinity gonna stick out like a sore thumb.. Just don't tell them you heard it from me .. not supposed to be giving the secret out randomly.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Assuming this christ is the all-powerful creator of the universe, I'ld say that there will be no room for doubt.
So IF there is ANY reason for doubt, then that alone would be conclusive evidence that he's not that all-knowing, all-powerful creator of the universe and all it contains.

Your argument is based on assumption that, human mind is able to recognize "All-powerful" and that, the All-powerful wants you to recognize Him easily.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Watching is not looking at sky. It's looking after your heart.

Philippians 1
9 And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, with knowledge and all discernment,
10 so that you may approve what is excellent, and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ,
11 filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

Luke 21:34
34 "But watch yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap.

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

Matthew 25
31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

Acts 3
19 Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out,
20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus,
21 whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.

Acts 17
30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,
31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.

Are you saying that, the purpose of the verse that says "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come", is, to say, to look after your hearts, because, otherwise when Christ comes, they cannot recognize Him?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Sorry, what scripture you mean, where did he say "watch", regarding his return?

Matt 24:


42“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

When he spoke about parables, it was clear from the text. Nothing in the scriptures indicates he meant his return is some kind of parable.

Well, indeed He gave the parable of the "theif in the night", as I quoted from Matt. 24.

 

[Trailblazer]

Nope.

1 Corinthians 15
42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable.

When I said "Baha'is could have a physically risen Jesus and it would not change anything, since that Jesus would still die eventually, just like the rest of us" I meant that the physical body of Jesus would die eventually. The physical body of Jesus was perishable, it is the spiritual body of Jesus that is imperishable.

1 Corinthians 15:42 is true, but it is completely out of kilter with the Christian belief that Jesus rose from the dead in a physical body.

Christians who say that Jesus rose in a body that was both physical and spiritual have no leg to stand on, since no such body exists.
There are only two kinds of bodies, physical bodies (natural bodies) and spiritual bodies. There is no such thing as a hybrid body that is BOTH physical and spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15
New Living Translation

The Resurrection Body

35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!.

 

[Altfish]

Only those that know "Da Trut" - See him come. I tell you a secret - When get through pearly gates .. what song they play on your arrival back your friends they all welcome you back from your vacation .. ask you how things went in the Milky Way Galaxy ..

You think on that for a bit --- which Song .. then after that .. gonna go hang our .. maybe watch some TV - millions of reality TV shows .. millions of worlds .. Check out which one you might wanna visit on next vacation .. remembering that while there are few rules in heaven .. the vacation rule is one of them - which is simply that when to on vacation they give you the Blue Pill .. you go sleep .. when wake up .. your soul has been transported into some fleshy vessel awaiting at the vacation spot .. but you will not remember heaven or your past vacations. Sometimes folks get a glimmer but in general no one is remembering nutting.

Now .. What this has to do with Christs Return .. "The Secret" .. which already you were given part. Tell you now about heavenly rule 2. You see, back in the day .. every soul the "Supreme one" would meet .. do nothing but blow smoke up the old guys backside 24/7 .. prasing .. Hallelujah .. it got really boring and tiring after a Trillion or so years .. so made a rule --- "Absolutely NO Praising Da Most High" and that was that ..

So ... if you see the Big Guy .. walking around as normally does in Sandals smoking a pipe full of Heavenly Hash .. Just be Cool ... Jah Rasta ain't gonna bite.

And now you know .. when comes down to earth this White Guy Rasta divinity gonna stick out like a sore thumb.. Just don't tell them you heard it from me .. not supposed to be giving the secret out randomly.

How do you know all this?