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If "everything is energy" then what does this mean?

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Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Both you and RW continue to unwittingly dwell in duality.

And you continue to dwell in your Chopra-inspired fantasy down the rabbit hole. You are not the least bit interested in what anyone else has to say, you just want to preach your bizarre DIY religion. You insult and patronise anyone who exposes your pretentious waffle for the nonsense that it is.
You might be better off preaching on a new-age forum where people are more gullible, and like the kind of woo you spout.
 
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Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Show me a valid translation which proves this one erroneous.

Here you go - properly referenced too, unlike your third-hand quote-mining.

“And what, bhikkhus, is the unconditioned? The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this is called the unconditioned."
https://suttacentral.net/en/sn43.2

Clearly you can't respond to MY points because as usual you are just making stuff up. You are a fantasist who craves attention, a tiresome troll.

So disappear back down your la-la land rabbit hole, and stop boring everyone with your Chopra-inspired DIY religion.

 
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godnotgod

Thou art That
This quote:

O bhikkhus, what is the Absolute (Asaṃkhata, Unconditioned)? It is, O bhikkhus, the extinction of desire (rāgakkhayo) the extinction of hatred (dosakkhayo), the extinction of illusion (mohakkhayo). This, O bhikkhus, is called the Absolute.

is taken from:

Saṃyutta-nikāya I (PTS), p. 359


The Samyutta Nikaya (Saṃyutta Nikāya SN, "Connected Discourses" or "Kindred Sayings") is a Buddhist scripture, the third of the five nikayas, or collections, in the Sutta Pitaka, which is one of the "three baskets" that compose the PaliTipitaka of Theravada Buddhism.

There are apparently only two English translations, and one in Chinese. The English translations are:

  • The Book of the Kindred Sayings, tr C. A. F. Rhys Davids & F. L. Woodward, 1917–30, 5 volumes, Pali Text Society[1], Bristol
  • The Connected Discourses of the Buddha, tr Bhikkhu Bodhi, 2000, Wisdom Publications, Somerville, MA, ISBN 0-86171-331-1; the Pali Text Society also issues a private edition of this for members only, which is its preferred translation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samyutta_Nikaya

So LOM and Spiney both have said that these translations are distortions.

Some of CAF Rhys Davids's credentials are as follows:


One of her first publications was a translation of the Dhamma Sangani, the first book of the third Pitaka of the Pali Canon, the Abhidhamma, under the title A Buddhist Manual of Psychological Ethics. This was published in 1900. Another early publication was her translation of the Therigatha, a collection of poems of realization written by early Buddhist nuns (Psalms of the Sisters, 1909). She lectured in Indian Philosophy at Manchester University from 1910 to 1913, and in the history of Buddhism at the School of Oriental Studies from 1918 to 1933.

She held the position of Honourary Secretary of the Pali Text Society from 1907 until her husband’s death in 1922, after 28 years of marriage, and as President of the Pali Text Society from 1923 to 1942. She translated large tracts of the Sutta Pitaka and was one of the first scholars to translate portions of the Abhidhamma. She also edited and supervised other translations of the Society. She also wrote many articles and several popular books on Buddhism, including Buddhism: A Study of the Buddhist Norm (1912), Buddhist Psychology (1914), Gotama the Man (1928), Sakya or Buddhist Origins (1928), A Manual of Buddhism (1932), Outlines of Buddhism (1934), Indian Religion and Survival (1934), Birth of Indian Psychology and Its Development in Buddhism (1936), and What Was the Original Gospel in Buddhism (1938). In all, she wrote 34 books.

https://palisuttas.wordpress.com/2014/07/26/the-life-and-legacy-of-mrs-c-a-f-rhys-davids/
*****

A partial bio of Bhikkhu Bodhi follows:

Bhikkhu Bodhi is an American Buddhist monk from New York City. Born in Brooklyn, New York, in 1944, he obtained a BA in philosophy from Brooklyn College (1966) and a PhD in philosophy from Claremont Graduate School (1972).

Drawn to Buddhism in his early 20s, after completing his university studies he traveled to Sri Lanka, where he received novice ordination in 1972 and full ordination in 1973, both under the late Ven. Ananda Maitreya, the leading Sri Lankan scholar-monk of recent times.

He was appointed editor of the Buddhist Publication Society (in Sri Lanka) in 1984 and its president in 1988. Ven. Bodhi has many important publications to his credit, either as author, translator, or editor, including the Buddha — A Translation of the Majjhima Nikaya (co-translated with Ven. Bhikkhu Nanamoli (1995), The Connected Discourses of the Buddha — a New Translation of the Samyutta Nikaya(2000), and In the Buddha’s Words (2005).

http://bodhimonastery.org/ven-bhikkhu-bodhi.html
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Spiney have said that these translations are distortions.

Eh? The translation I just posted is by Bikkhu Bodhi, who is regarded as the gold standard these days.

“And what, bhikkhus, is the unconditioned? The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this is called the unconditioned."
https://suttacentral.net/en/sn43.2

Your frenetic quote mining just further illustrates your ignorance of the issues involved, and your desperation not to be exposed as the fraud that you are.
 
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Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
I already stated that interaction is not an absolute, nor am I trying to make it out to be one.

The "absolute" is just a red herring, used to distract from the gaping holes and contradictions in the Chopra-inspired DIY religion being preached here.

It's a horrible bodge-up which attempts to merge new-age "teachings", Hinduism, Buddhism and pseudo-science. There is a continual misrepresentation of authentic traditions, the regular moving of goalposts, the continual changing of personas, and the regular dumping of off-topic material into the discussion. Not to mention the random emission of ill-defined jargon, ie PPNs ( Pretentious Proper Nouns ).

I notice we haven't heard so much about "cosmic consciousness" lately. Chopra will be disappointed in his star pupil!
 
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godnotgod

Thou art That

“And what, bhikkhus, is the unconditioned? The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this is called the unconditioned."

https://suttacentral.net/en/sn43.2

Not so fast, Holmes. Now we use our heads:

British Dictionary definitions for unconditioned:

unconditioned

(metaphysics) unrestricted by conditions; infinite; absolute

without limitations; unconditional
*****
unconditioned: definition:


not subject to conditions; absolute.

*****

unconditioned:
Synonyms for unconditioned

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/unconditioned

Even if you could now somehow prove that 'unconditioned' does NOT mean 'absolute', which you cannot, you have now incriminated and contradicted yourself in print, by acknowledging 'the unconditioned', which you previously denied as being a valid Buddhist teaching. Do you now wish to rescind your claim that there are no absolutes in Buddhist thought?

There will be no pudding for your desert this evening. :p

Now go to your room!


 
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Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Your quote mining is as usual pointless, the question is what "unconditioned" means in this passage.

"And what, bhikkhus, is the unconditioned? The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this is called the unconditioned."
https://suttacentral.net/en/sn43.2

"Unconditioned" here means not conditioned by lust, hatred and delusion. It's actually very simple.

Perhaps you could start thinking about what Buddhist teachings really MEAN, instead of twisting them out of shape to make them fit into your bizarre DIY religion.

Shouting in red just makes you look even more foolish and desperate. As does your continued eel-wriggling.
 
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godnotgod

Thou art That
Your quote mining is as usual pointless, the question is what "unconditioned" means in this passage.

And what, bhikkhus, is the unconditioned? The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this is called the unconditioned."
https://suttacentral.net/en/sn43.2

"Unconditioned" here means not conditioned by lust, hatred and delusion. It's actually very simple.

Right. And if something is unconditioned, it is absolute, because there is no relative conditioned state to which it can be compared. Something conditioned is always relative.
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Right. And if something is unconditioned, it is absolute, because there is no relative conditioned state to which it can be compared. Something conditioned is always relative.

More eel-wriggling. It is not "The Absolute" as you keep claiming. This is one of your cheap tricks, moving the goal-posts when your fraudulent claims are exposed.

You have run out of arguments, so all you can do is shout in red. How pathetic.
 
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Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Is the experience of Shunyata different for different persons?

What's your point? Trying to say that Nirvana and sunyata are really Atman/Brahman? Tiresome sectarian rhetoric.

Clearly you can't think outside your Atman/Brahman box.
You are fixated on a reality behind the appearances and cannot conceive of mere appearances.
You are fixated on one who knows and cannot conceive of mere knowing.

From the Bahiya Sutta:

"When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bāhiya, there is no you in connection with that. When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress."
 
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godnotgod

Thou art That
More eel-wriggling. It is not "The Absolute" as you keep claiming. This is one of your cheap tricks, moving the goal-posts when your fraudulent claims are exposed.

You have run out of arguments, so all you can do is shout in red. How pathetic.

READ!

unconditioned:

1. not subject to conditions; absolute.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/unconditioned
*****

unconditioned = absolute

the unconditioned = the absolute

understand?
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
More pointless eel-wriggling. I have just explained what "unconditioned" means in the passage we were discussing, it means unconditioned by craving, aversion and delusion. It's an adjective, not a noun.

You are clearly not in the least bit interested in understanding Buddhist teachings, you are just on an trollish ego-trip, only concerned with trying to prop up your bizarre DIY religion, inspired by that charlatan Chopra.

You can shout all you like and throw tantrums, but everyone here knows you are a fraud.
 
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godnotgod

Thou art That
More pointless eel-wriggling. I have just explained what "unconditioned" means in the passage we were discussing, it means unconditioned by craving, aversion and delusion. It's an adjective, not a noun.

Denser and Denser!

You can't read; you can't think properly. You don't understand how logic works.

Now pay attention!

Your quote reads:


“And what, bhikkhus, is the unconditioned? The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this is called the unconditioned."

'Unconditioned' is an adjective.

But Bikkhu is not saying 'unconditioned', is he? He clearly is saying 'the unconditioned', isn't he?

'the unconditioned' is a noun, not an adjective.


"Nouns are often described as referring to persons, places, things, states, or qualities"

dictionary.com

'the unconditioned' is a state which is present after 'the destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion'

This 'state' is called 'Nirvana', 'The Unconditioned', which is The Absolute. Why? Because there is nothing relative to it which remains after destruction to compare to it.

Bikkhu translates the Buddha as saying that 'the unconditioned' is equivalent to the destruction of lust, hatred, and delusion. Therefore, 'the unconditioned' is what is the case after these three no longer exist. IOW, only that which is the unconditioned exists in reality. If that is the case, it can only be the absolute, since there is no 'other' which exists that can be compared to it. This 'unconditioned' state is Nirvana, the only true Reality.






 
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godnotgod

Thou art That
More pointless eel-wriggling. I have just explained what "unconditioned" means in the passage we were discussing, it means unconditioned by craving, aversion and delusion. It's an adjective, not a noun.

You are clearly not in the least bit interested in understanding Buddhist teachings, you are just on an trollish ego-trip, only concerned with trying to prop up your bizarre DIY religion, inspired by that charlatan Chopra.

You can shout all you like and throw tantrums, but everyone here knows you are a fraud.

Why is it that you fail to properly understand the very quote you posted? I think it is because your non-Buddhist education is deficient, as you fail to grasp simple ideas and concepts, and cling instead to a rote, black and white 'understanding' of the texts. This pattern of misunderstanding is consistent both with your take on the Heart Sutra and now with this particular passage. You say you now practice a simple Zen approach, but Zen is a mystical practice which requires a tuned-in intuitive mind, which you clearly lack, or suppress instead with a kind of fundamentalist/legalistic approach to Buddhist teachings.
 
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