If "everything is energy" then what does this mean?

[atanu]

Many words are used and they mean different things for different people. But words such as Immutable, Absolute, Transcendental are used by Buddhist teachers of all varieties: Zen, Mahayana, and Theravada. A few samples.

http://selfdefinition.org/zen/Zen-and-Dzogchen--12-page-article.pdf
Thus, Absolute or Ultimate Truth—shunyata—is both origin and aim. While the gradualist path of the Hinayana and the Mahayana uses prajna, the Inner Tantras, and especially the Ati Yoga of Dzogchen, utilise the non-coneptual, nondual innate primordial wisdom (sahajajnana, yeshe, gnosis) the natural luminosity of essential mind nature. This blissful intuitive wisdom cannot be grasped by discursive, conceptual analytic meditation (prajna). It can only be directly realised (pratyaksa), suddenly, through transmission and empowerment by the master. It is then brought to fruition by nondual meditation under the guidance of the master. The primordial wisdom is the Buddha Nature, the tathagatagarbha,.......

http://buddhism.about.com/od/mahayanabuddhism/a/aboutmahayana.htm
Connected to sunyata is the teaching that Buddha Nature is the immutable nature of all beings....
Very simply, dharmakaya is the body of absolute truth,....

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/Philosophical/Absolute_in_Chan.htm
The Womb of Tathaagata spoken by the Buddha means aalayavij~naana; however, those of defective knowledge do not understand that the Womb is the aalayavij~naana. The relationship between the pure Womb of Tathaagata and the worldly aalayavij~naana resembles gold and its productions such as finger-rings; the characteristics might be different, yet [the substance] is not.(30)

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha135.htm
Buddhism has been a religion of practices than of grace. It changed from the radical pluralism of Hinayana to the absolutism of the Mahayana. There was felt the need for a mediating principle between the absolute and phenomenal being. Buddha is that mediator. In Prajnaparamita, as non-dual knowledge, it is equated with Tathagata and as prajna he is identical with the absolute; but as a human being subjecting himself to all limitations, he is at once phenomenal. Relation of the Tathagata to the Absolute (prajna-sunyata) is one sided; the former depends on the latter, and not vice verse.

The late Tibetan master Kalu Rinpoche said: "You live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is reality, you are that reality. When you understand this, you will see that you are nothing. And being nothing, you are everything. That is all."

 

[godnotgod]

godnotgod said: ↑

No. If it were, it would not be Shunyata.

Exactly. But ....
...

So if you agree that it would not be Sunyata if it were different for everyone, then it must, by default, be universal, since Sunyata to be what it is has to be the same for everyone. Being universally identical for everyone establishes it as The Absolute. There is no 'non-absolute' interpretation of Sunyata, else it would not be Sunyata.

 

[godnotgod]

Many words are used and they mean different things for different people. But words such as Immutable, Absolute, Transcendental are used by Buddhist teachers of all varieties: Zen, Mahayana, and Theravada. A few samples.

http://selfdefinition.org/zen/Zen-and-Dzogchen--12-page-article.pdf
Thus, Absolute or Ultimate Truth—shunyata—is both origin and aim. While the gradualist path of the Hinayana and the Mahayana uses prajna, the Inner Tantras, and especially the Ati Yoga of Dzogchen, utilise the non-coneptual, nondual innate primordial wisdom (sahajajnana, yeshe, gnosis) the natural luminosity of essential mind nature. This blissful intuitive wisdom cannot be grasped by discursive, conceptual analytic meditation (prajna). It can only be directly realised (pratyaksa), suddenly, through transmission and empowerment by the master. It is then brought to fruition by nondual meditation under the guidance of the master. The primordial wisdom is the Buddha Nature, the tathagatagarbha,.......

http://buddhism.about.com/od/mahayanabuddhism/a/aboutmahayana.htm
Connected to sunyata is the teaching that Buddha Nature is the immutable nature of all beings....
Very simply, dharmakaya is the body of absolute truth,....

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/Philosophical/Absolute_in_Chan.htm
The Womb of Tathaagata spoken by the Buddha means aalayavij~naana; however, those of defective knowledge do not understand that the Womb is the aalayavij~naana. The relationship between the pure Womb of Tathaagata and the worldly aalayavij~naana resembles gold and its productions such as finger-rings; the characteristics might be different, yet [the substance] is not.(30)

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/ebdha135.htm
Buddhism has been a religion of practices than of grace. It changed from the radical pluralism of Hinayana to the absolutism of the Mahayana. There was felt the need for a mediating principle between the absolute and phenomenal being. Buddha is that mediator. In Prajnaparamita, as non-dual knowledge, it is equated with Tathagata and as prajna he is identical with the absolute; but as a human being subjecting himself to all limitations, he is at once phenomenal. Relation of the Tathagata to the Absolute (prajna-sunyata) is one sided; the former depends on the latter, and not vice verse.

The late Tibetan master Kalu Rinpoche said: "You live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is reality, you are that reality. When you understand this, you will see that you are nothing. And being nothing, you are everything. That is all."

Most excellent!

from the notes above:

Buddhism has been a religion [more] of practices than of grace. It changed from the radical pluralism of Hinayana to the absolutism of the Mahayana.

...which is why Hinayana has been described as a 'stagnant backwater', Hinayanist Theravada being that sect of Buddhism that Spiney was steeped in. No wonder he denies The Absolute so vehemently!

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Just more pointless quote-mining, and I doubt you understand what these passages actually MEAN.

In any case the references are mostly to absolute TRUTH, not to the "Absolute" you are so attached to.

You really do have an "absolute" addiction, you are completely obsessed with it. Perhaps you could cut down gradually, maybe use it 50 times a day instead of 75 times a day?

 

[YmirGF]

And that is why I ask "Is experience of Shunyata different for different persons?"

Arguably, it would be, yes, due to the unique understanding of each individual. I'm somewhat insistent that the individual experiences their expectations both consciously and unconsciously and that we should not overlook how our beliefs about reality subtly and quite unconsciously colour of experiences of said reality, regardless of what those experiences entail. Human animals are welcome to pretend otherwise but they will only succeed in fooling themselves and misleading those who listen to them.

 

[godnotgod]

Let us close this case.

Sunyata is The Absolute. Brahman is The Absolute. Nirvana is The Absolute.

 

[godnotgod]

Arguably, it would be, yes, due to the unique understanding of each individual. I'm somewhat insistent that the individual experiences their expectations both consciously and unconsciously and that we should not overlook how our beliefs about reality subtly and quite unconsciously colour of experiences of said reality, regardless of what those experiences entail. Human animals are welcome to pretend otherwise but they will only succeed in fooling themselves and misleading those who listen to them.

You don't know what you are saying!

If Sunyata is different from one person to the next, is it not Sunyata!

When it is seen and understood rightly as Sunyata, then everyone will see the exact same Reality. What this means is that their own personal 'self-view' has been dropped so that Sunyata is now seen correctly.

 

[atanu]

Let us close this case.
Sunyata is The Absolute. Brahman is The Absolute. Nirvana is The Absolute.

These arguments never close. Mind returns from it. Word returns from it.

 

[YmirGF]

Let us close this case.

Sunyata is The Absolute. Brahman is The Absolute. Nirvana is The Absolute.

 

[godnotgod]

Just more pointless quote-mining, and I doubt you understand what these passages actually MEAN.

So what do they mean?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

..which is why Hinayana has been described as a 'stagnant backwater', Hinayanist Theravada being that sect of Buddhism that Spiney was steeped in. No wonder he denies The Absolute so vehemently!

Pathetic and inaccurate. I wasn't "steeped" in Theravada, in fact I came to it quite late, after many years in Mahayana and Vajrayana schools.

A mature Buddhist wouldn't indulge in this kind of petty sectarianism, but of course you are neither mature or Buddhist. You are just a tiresome Chopra clone who hijacks threads to preach his bizarre DIY religion.

 

[godnotgod]

The quote in question calls extinguishing 'the unconditioned'.

A direct synonym for 'unconditioned', according to the dictionary, is 'absolute'.

Case closed.

Now go to your room and weep.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So what do they mean?

The starting point is that they are referring to Buddhist teachings, which are NOT the same as Hindu teachings, despite your dishonest attempts to portray them as the same.

 

[godnotgod]

Pathetic and inaccurate. I wasn't "steeped" in Theravada, in fact I came to it quite late, after many years in Mahayana and Vajrayana schools.

A mature Buddhist wouldn't indulge in this kind of petty sectarianism, but of course you are neither mature or Buddhist. You are just a tiresome Chopra clone who hijacks threads to preach his bizarre DIY religion.

So you left Mahayana for more secure and cozy stagnant waters. You went backwards, which is reflected in your staid thinking.

 

[YmirGF]

Let us close this case.

Sunyata is The Absolute. Brahman is The Absolute. Nirvana is The Absolute.

I might go along with:

Sunyata is the unknown. Brahman is the unknown. Nirvana is the unknown.
But then it's just the unknown, BFD. I simply fail to see why these designations are important of even particularly meaningful.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

A direct synonym for 'unconditioned', according to the dictionary, is 'absolute'.

Pathetic attempt at point scoring. We established several pages ago that it is about what "unconditioned" means in the context of the sutta passage, not what some dictionary says about it.

 

[viole]

A loaded question, of course.

Absolute Joy/Divine Love is present even under the most horrific of human conditions, a...

'troubled voyage in perfectly calm weather'

I could equally say that grumpiness/divine hate is present even under the most beautiful of human conditions....

Now what? Did I prove anything about God's hate?

Ciao

- viole

 

[godnotgod]

The starting point is that they are referring to Buddhist teachings, which are NOT the same as Hindu teachings, despite your dishonest attempts to portray them as the same.

They describe Sunyata as absolute.

 

[godnotgod]

Pathetic attempt at point scoring. We established several pages ago that it is about what "unconditioned" means in the context of the sutta passage, not what some dictionary says about it.

So now unconditioned has two meanings. Tell us about the meaning in the sutta passage.

 

[atanu]

I might go along with:

Sunyata is the unknown. Brahman is the unknown. Nirvana is the unknown.
But then it's just the unknown, BFD. I simply fail to see why these designations are important of even particularly meaningful.

That is true. But Big Bang is unknown too. Whereas that I exist is not an unknown.