If "everything is energy" then what does this mean?

[godnotgod]

I'm actually somewhat of an eternalist myself. There is no end to that which has no beginning.

The eternalists of Buddha's time were talking about an afterlife in linear time; after this lifetime, a future eternal existence. But eternity can mean the timeless eternity of the Present Moment, in which there is no beginning nor end. It is non-linear.

 

[idav]

"(Thus) virtual particles exist only in the mathematics of the model used to describe the measurements of real particles . To coin a word virtual particles are particlemorphic, having a form like particle but [is] not a particle."

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/185110/do-virtual-particles-actually-physically-exist
*****

"The Higgs field is also thought to make a small contribution, giving mass to individual quarks as well as to electrons and some other particles. The Higgs field creates mass out of the quantum vacuum too, in the form of virtual Higgs bosons. So if the LHC confirms that the Higgs exists, [which it has] it will mean all reality is virtual."

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16095-its-confirmed-matter-is-merely-vacuum-fluctuations/

Thats like saying reality is a game or computer or holographic, non of which means not real. Even if reality is just a frequency it is what makes up everything and needs a medium in order to vibrate. I can go with a holographic universe but notice we are using just basic senses to find this stuff.

Also it is different from the description of virtual reality game. Not like observing something that is based on frequencies but being part of it is an entirely different thing. The higgs boson must be as real as the table it makes up.

 

[Runewolf1973]

The eternalists of Buddha's time were talking about an afterlife in linear time; after this lifetime, a future eternal existence. But eternity can mean the timeless eternity of the Present Moment, in which there is no beginning nor end. It is non-linear.

I am an atheist, but I do believe in reincarnation. I believe that we go from our present manifestation to a different manifestation in the next life. It is really just a continual form of interaction, but it is possible that you are right and it is no more than a continual re-manifestation of what you call maya. The universe is very illusory indeed. What we call physical existence is not as "physical" as we think it is. I personally wouldn't go so far as to call it pure nothingness, but it is definitely something beyond our current ability to reason.

 

[godnotgod]

Thats like saying reality is a game or computer or holographic, non of which means not real. Even if reality is just a frequency it is what makes up everything and needs a medium in order to vibrate. I can go with a holographic universe but notice we are using just basic senses to find this stuff.

Also it is different from the description of virtual reality game. Not like observing something that is based on frequencies but being part of it is an entirely different thing. The higgs boson must be as real as the table it makes up.

It, too, is a virtual particle, created as it is from fluctuations in the Unified Field. All of its mass is virtual.

It should not be seen, however, in terms of a computer or virtual reality game. How boring. That came later than the Universe. It can be seen in the sense that the Ultimate Reality is playing itself as all of the parts of the Universe, all at once, in a cosmic game of Hide and Seek, a wonderfully compelling and joyous play. But, you see, it is not an object of your consciousness that is playing this game 'out there'; it is none other than YOU.

The basic senses only provide clues, but no understanding as to what those clues actually mean.

 

[godnotgod]

I am an atheist, but I do believe in reincarnation. I believe that we go from our present manifestation to a different manifestation in the next life. It is really just a continual form of interaction, but it is possible that you are right and it is no more than a continual re-manifestation of what you call maya. The universe is very illusory indeed. What we call physical existence is not as "physical" as we think it is. I personally wouldn't go so far as to call it pure nothingness, but it is definitely something beyond our current ability to reason.

I am glad to hear you realize that. But try to take it a step further and adopt what the Buddha said:

1. 'think neither God, nor not-God', and
2. 'negate negation'

As regards reincarnation, tell me: if all is an illusion, who, or what, is it that live; that dies; that is reincarnating?

 

[idav]

It, too, is a virtual particle, created as it is from fluctuations in the Unified Field. All of its mass is virtual.

It should not be seen, however, in terms of a computer or virtual reality game. How boring. That came later than the Universe. It can be seen in the sense that the Ultimate Reality is playing itself as all of the parts of the Universe, all at once, in a cosmic game of Hide and Seek, a wonderfully compelling and joyous play. But, you see, it is not an object of your consciousness that is playing this game 'out there'; it is none other than YOU.

The basic senses only provide clues, but no understanding as to what those clues actually mean.

Gravity is a clue, an invisible force coming from an actual object with mass. Forces have sources don't they?

 

[idav]

It, too, is a virtual particle, created as it is from fluctuations in the Unified Field. All of its mass is virtual.

It should not be seen, however, in terms of a computer or virtual reality game. How boring. That came later than the Universe. It can be seen in the sense that the Ultimate Reality is playing itself as all of the parts of the Universe, all at once, in a cosmic game of Hide and Seek, a wonderfully compelling and joyous play. But, you see, it is not an object of your consciousness that is playing this game 'out there'; it is none other than YOU.

The basic senses only provide clues, but no understanding as to what those clues actually mean.

Finding the higgs boson was proof of something existing, it is a finite point and reconciles the standard model. That isn't virtual there is something there, it isn't infinite.

 

[godnotgod]

Gravity is a clue, an invisible force coming from an actual object with mass. Forces have sources don't they?

Aren't all of them coming from The Unified Field?

 

[godnotgod]

Thats like saying reality is a game or computer or holographic, non of which means not real. Even if reality is just a frequency it is what makes up everything and needs a medium in order to vibrate.

 

[godnotgod]

Finding the higgs boson was proof of something existing, it is a finite point and reconciles the standard model. That isn't virtual there is something there, it isn't infinite.

As I understand it, not only is the Higgs boson a virtual particle, but particles themselves make no sense as particles without the fields out of which they are constantly being created and re-created, moment by moment. Virtual particles, even the Higgs boson, are the product of field fluctuations. To say that they are 'real' is like saying that the rope seen as a snake is real. The key is that they are 'held in position' via the field fluctuations, like an image is held on a computer monitor via rapid refresh rates undetectable to the human eye.

From the New Scientist article previously referenced:

"The Higgs field creates mass out of the quantum vacuum too, in the form of virtual Higgs bosons."

 

[idav]

From the New Scientist article previously referenced:

"The Higgs field creates mass out of the quantum vacuum too, in the form of virtual Higgs bosons."

More semantics. Do you understand what virtual means, it is not the same as illusion.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I am glad to hear you realize that. But try to take it a step further and adopt what the Buddha said:

1. 'think neither God, nor not-God', and
2. 'negate negation'

As regards reincarnation, tell me: if all is an illusion, who, or what, is it that live; that dies; that is reincarnating?

I know the answer you want me to give, but it is not what I believe. I do not believe in nothingness. That which changes form is energy. That which reincarnates is energy. Change is not an illusion, the forms which energy takes are illusions. Interaction and change and energy are all very real in my books, but I believe there is no doubt a more unified or complete explanation to all of it, we just haven't got that far yet.

 

[Aupmanyav]

C'mon, Aupmanyav! You're smarter than that! Use your head and the logic you cherish so highly. Pay attention to what is being said and not what you have been infected to automatically react to. Does logic show you that the analogy is a valid one, or not? If not, please point out the flaw instead of slapping the statement with a label.

What I mean is that the action is because of the stuff (I would not discuss 'stuff' here because we do not fully know it), but bereft of the the stuff, universal consciousness, does not float in the universe by itself. It is a property of the 'stuff'.

You, I, algae, and grass do what they do because of the greater Reality that is Brahman, just as the wave does what it does because of the greater Reality of the ocean.

Greater than what? There is no other reality. That is what I disagree with, the adjectives. Otherwise we are on the same page.

The link I posted is a synopses of various scientific studies verifying the non-local behavior of the brain.

Tht is not science. It is pseudo-science, para-normal, mystic/religious woo, and I do not subscribe to it.

 

[godnotgod]

More semantics. Do you understand what virtual means, it is not the same as illusion.

virtual

adjective vir·tu·al \ˈvər-chə-wəl, -chəl; ˈvərch-wəl\

Simple Definition of virtual

• : very close to being something without actually being it

Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary

So a virtual particle is very close to being a real particle, but is not actually a real particle. IOW, it acts 'as if' it is a real particle. In this case the mass of the atom is not real mass, but virtual mass, created by fluctuations in the Unified Field. And if the mass of all atoms is virtual, then they are not real, rendering all 'material' reality an illusion, or, as the Hindus have already understood this quite well 4000 years ago, 'maya'.

 

[godnotgod]

I know the answer you want me to give, but it is not what I believe. I do not believe in nothingness. That which changes form is energy. That which reincarnates is energy. Change is not an illusion, the forms which energy takes are illusions. Interaction and change and energy are all very real in my books, but I believe there is no doubt a more unified or complete explanation to all of it, we just haven't got that far yet.

No, I have no answer in mind I want you to give. I know you would have to arrive there on your own.

Nothingness is not a belief.

If forms are illusions, then how is the 'change' they undergo real?

 

[Runewolf1973]

No, I have no answer in mind I want you to give. I know you would have to arrive there on your own.

Nothingness is not a belief.

If forms are illusions, then how is the 'change' they undergo real?

Change/interaction is the stimuli which brings about the illusion of forms. The stimuli is real, the illusion is not. Matter only seems solid due to the forces which hold the particles together. Those forces are the stimuli for the illusion which is solid matter. If someone hears voices in the rain, the sound of rain is the stimuli for that illusion as well.

 

[godnotgod]

What I mean is that the action is because of the stuff (I would not discuss 'stuff' here because we do not fully know it), but bereft of the the stuff, universal consciousness, does not float in the universe by itself. It is a property of the 'stuff'

There is no 'stuff': you have been taken in by maya!

You want to tell me that consciousness is a property of stuff, when you admit you don't even know what stuff actually is!

The action is because of the stuff? Evolution is that stuff is because of the action. ha ha

Universal Consciousness cannot 'float'; it is non-material, and it is not 'in' the Universe; it IS The Universe.

You are still thrashing about in duality by thinking consciousness is a property of something else. There is no 'something else'. There is only Brahman, and Brahman is Pure Consciousness.

.Greater than what? There is no other reality. That is what I disagree with, the adjectives. Otherwise we are on the same page.

In the same way that the wave is a total action of the (greater) ocean, as you accepted, you and I are a total action of Brahman.

Tht is not science. It is pseudo-science, para-normal, mystic/religious woo, and I do not subscribe to it.

Sorry, these experiments follow the rules of the scientific method. They are science. It is now clear you have a bias, and want to interpret Reality IN TERMS OF your personally 'forged views', instead of interpreting your views in terms of Reality, a common mistake.

 

[godnotgod]

Change/interaction is the stimuli which brings about the illusion of forms. The stimuli is real, the illusion is not. Matter only seems solid due to the forces which hold the particles together. Those forces are the stimuli for the illusion which is solid matter. If someone hears voices in the rain, the sound of rain is the stimuli for that illusion as well.

If change is real, there must be something real that is changing. But by your own admission, there is nothing real, so nothing exists in reality that can change. Therefore, change too is an illusion.

The only thing you are left with is Nothing, but even you are Nothing, and you know this via Pure Consciousness, the only true Reality.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There is no 'stuff'.

I won't commit myself till I hear from science.

 

[godnotgod]

I won't commit myself till I hear from science.

Science has already spoken: the mass of the atom is not real mass; it is virtual mass. Nothing is real. The material world is now understood as possibility.

Fascinating that those who claim to cherish science, cannot accept the new paradigm of Quanum Physics, and tenaciously cling to the old materialist paradigm for dear life, but the old paradigm has been dead for over 30 years! Amazing!