"If God Could Just Show Himself..."

[Quintessence]

The only way you will accept God this way is if you've actually decided that really is what you want. As long as you're in "prove yourself worthy, God" mode, you will never accept what you're looking for. The End.

This is so important for folks to understand.

Accepting or rejecting a particular theological understanding of the gods is entirely a matter of personal preference, tempered through cultural upbringing. Some put a significant amount of work into this exercise while others do not. In either case, accepting or rejecting a particular god-concept boils down to whether or not you want that particular god-concept in your life.

I reject God (aka, the Abrahamic one-god) because I have no need nor want for that god-concept in my life. It has little to do with me not "believing in" that god, I simply have no use for it. I'll certainly grant a respectful nod - after all, that god-concept is central to the culture I dwell in whether I want it to be or not. But beyond that? They're a stranger who I have no interest in cultivating a more meaningful relationship with.

What I find really strange about the monotheist religions in particular is how they insist that everyone should want to have a meaningful relationship with their god in particular. Relationships don't work that way. They aren't one size fits all. Not everyone wants or cares about having a relationship with that god. They invest their time in building other relationships. And that's not a bad thing, I don't think.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

This is totally not a joke thread I wrote at 3am btw. Totally not.

This bit seems like it may be sarcastic? As in, you're trying to play the whole thing off as a "joke thread" that you wrote while you were tired.

It sure doesn't read like a joke. It reads like standard theist fare. And if, instead, you were "joking", I think that may make the OP qualify as trolling. Except wait... don't you believe all this stuff? All I am left with in this slurry of confusing thoughts is that you're only now trying to play it off as a joke because several people have pointed out problems with the content. Problems that are perhaps a little too valid for your taste, eh?

 

[Salvador]

The God of the gaps keeps getting smaller and smaller.

If forward contamination of Mars were to occur and then happen to be scientifically verified, then directed panspermia will be a matter of fact rather than mere conjecture.

 

[McBell]

If forward contamination of Mars were to occur and then happen to be scientifically verified, then directed panspermia will be a matter of fact rather than mere conjecture.

As long as you have to have gaps for your god, your god will at some point become irrelevant.
But you keep doing you.

 

[Salvador]

had

As long as you have to have gaps for your god, your god will at some point become irrelevant.
But you keep doing you.

I don't know the existential status of whoever or whatever had invented and delivered our genetic code from beyond our solar system to Earth; so in this regard, our genetic code's Creator might no longer exist and could indeed be highly irrelevant to us present day humans on Earth.

 

[MJ Bailey]

Lol, if only all of the "mysteries" were solved eah...

 

[MJ Bailey]

There is indeed a mark of extraterrestrial intelligence embedded in our genetic code by its Creator as evident by how the numeric and semantic message of 037 appears in our genetic code. Each codon relates to 3 other particular codons having the same particular type of initial nucleobase and sequential nucleobase subsequently then followed by a different ending nucleobase. Half of these 4 set of codon groups ( whole family codons ) each code for the same particular amino acid. The other half of those 4 set of codon groups ( split codons ) don't code for the same amino acid. So then, in the case of whole family codons, there are 37 amino acid peptide chain nucleons for each relevant nucleobase determinant of how a particular amino acid gets coded. Start codons express 0 at the beginning of 37 Hence, the meaningful numeric and semantic message of 037 gets unambiguously and factually conveyed to us descendants of our cosmic ancestor(s) with our genetic code invented by a superior intelligence beyond that of anybody presently bound to Earth.

“There is no plausible chemical logic to couple directly the triplets and the amino acids. In other words, the principles of chemistry where not the sought essence of the genetic code”

“The zero is the supreme abstraction of arithmetic. Its use by any alphabet, including the genetic code, can be an indicator of artificiality.”

"The place-value decimal system represented through digital symmetry of the numbers divisible by prime number (PN 037). This arithmetical syntactic feature is an innate attribute of the genetic code. The PN 037 notation with a leading zero emphasizes zero's equal participation in the digital symmetry. Numbers written by identical digits are devised by PN 037*3=111 and 1+1+1=3 and appear regularly [from the figure: 037*6 =222 and 2+2+2=6, 037*9=333 and 3+3+3 =9, 037*4=444 and 4+4+4=12, 037*15=555 and 5+5+5=15, 037*18=666 and 6+6+6=18, 037*21=777 and 7+7+7 =21. 037*24 =888 and 8+8+8=24, 037*27=999 and 9+9+9=27.)"

"There is a complete set of information symbols utilizing the decimal syntax 111, 222, 333, 444, 555, 666, 777, 888, 999 in the genetic code. Each of these symbols consists uniformly of a carrier (balanced nucleons) and a meaning (the decimal syntax)."

Reference: The "Wow! signal" of the terrestrial genetic code. Vladimir l. shCherbak and Maxim A. Makukov. http://earth-chronicles.ru/Publications_12/35/64182102-1-s2.0-s0019103513000791-main.pdf Icarus 2013, February

This informational and artificial characteristic of the WOW signal of the terrestrial genetic code demonstrates intelligent design.

This intelligent signal transmitted via genetic code that has been documented and confirmed by scientists researching the WOW signal of the terrestrial genetic code is prima facie evidence for an intelligent designer.

The authors who discovered this mark of intelligence embedded in our genetic code show that "the terrestrial code displays a thorough precision-type orderliness matching the criteria to be considered an informational signal. Simple arrangements of the code reveal an ensemble of arithmetical and ideographical patterns of the same symbolic language. Accurate and systematic, these underlying patterns appear as a product of precision logic and nontrivial computing rather than of stochastic processes (the null hypothesis that they are due to chance coupled with presumable evolutionary pathways is rejected with P-value < 10–13). The patterns are profound to the extent that the code mapping itself is uniquely deduced from their algebraic representation. The signal displays readily recognizable hallmarks of artificiality, among which are the symbol of zero, the privileged decimal syntax and semantical symmetries. Besides, extraction of the signal involves logically straightforward but abstract operations, making the patterns essentially irreducible to any natural origin. Plausible ways of embedding the signal into the code and possible interpretation of its content are discussed. Overall, while the code is nearly optimized biologically, its limited capacity is used extremely efficiently to pass non-biological information."

Reference: The "Wow! signal" of the terrestrial genetic code. Vladimir l. shCherbak and Maxim A. Makukov.Redirectinghttps://www.scribd.com/document/35302916...netic-Code Icarus, 2013 February

Exactly who/what left its/their mark in our genetic coding might not ever get determined by anybody presently bound to Earth. The search for our cosmic relatives and cosmic common ancestor likely then needs to be done with advanced space exploration. I'd like to urge you then to please advise our Senate, Congress and President to expand our tax-payer funded resources for advance space exploration.

Wouldn't this be like asking to see the neighbors house before you have even seen your own? Is 100% of Earth explored and known? Don't get me wrong. I truly believe in space exploration, but believe that tax dollars should be used to solve the problems we have on our own planet first; space exploration being secondary.

 

[PruePhillip]

Natural events, attributed to the emotions of a god.
That what you mean by "what can be known of god,
clearly seen or evident?"

Well well, now who is it that for countless ages has
thought that mental illness was demon possession,
that god threw lightning bolts, sends earthquakes or
volcano eruptions to show displeasure, etc and blah?

The denier of natural process of course says its god.
Half you xians still believe in demon possession.


The way you guys do psychological projection is so
blatant and transparent, you really should be
embarrassed by such a naive display.

But then, a flood believer must of needs be immune
to embarrassment, or, for that matter, evidence.

Funny people!

Jesus commented on the ability of the people to discern the weather from the sky.
These rural, outdoor people could read the skies quite well, ie red sky in the morning
was the shepherds' warning etc..Doesn't mean God doesn't bring the weather. They
would do a better job of forecasting than you or me.

It's like saying "the sun rises in the east" doesn't mean we believe the sun goes
around the earth. It's just a way of looking at things.

 

[PruePhillip]

Wouldn't this be like asking to see the neighbors house before you have even seen your own? Is 100% of Earth explored and known? Don't get me wrong. I truly believe in space exploration, but believe that tax dollars should be used to solve the problems we have on our own planet first; space exploration being secondary.

The worth of GPS to the world's economy is about one hundred billion dollars a year.
That's about, in real terms, what the American moon program "cost."
Imagine, just GPS alone. Not counting communication, resource sensing, environmental
observation, ship tracking, fire sensing and a gazillion other things.
During the 1960's when America invested such a huge sum in space, everything from
upgrading their universities to promoting science and engineering - America went through
a decade long economic boom.

I wish Elon Musk and his SpaceX company well. He will be the world's first trillionaire
maybe. I wish he would take his company to another country where space is appreciated
as the treasure trove it is.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

That's easily settled by the evidence, from two sources - creation itself, and the Bible.
I'll be back later.

Which attributes would be the Bible and creation show?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's easily settled by the evidence, from two sources - creation itself, and the Bible.
I'll be back later.

Easily settled to your standard of evidence, maybe, but the fact that the world has 5.5 billion non-Christians suggests to me that the Bible doesn't "easily settle" much for most people.

... but good luck showing otherwise when you return.

 

[Audie]

Jesus commented on the ability of the people to discern the weather from the sky.
These rural, outdoor people could read the skies quite well, ie red sky in the morning
was the shepherds' warning etc..Doesn't mean God doesn't bring the weather. They
would do a better job of forecasting than you or me.

It's like saying "the sun rises in the east" doesn't mean we believe the sun goes
around the earth. It's just a way of looking at things.

Dont be simple. Yo know perfectly well I was not commenting
on weather prediction, but on this insubstantial claim of yours-
In a similar way, what may be known of God, is clearly seen, or evident, but the denier would attribute this to natural possesses, even those that he cannot demonstrate, or prove - as in the case of Abiogenesis, and evolution.

I noted that in more credulous, superstitious and less learned
times people attributed divers things such as lightning, mental
illness and earthquakes to supernatural forces.

NONE of which has the faintest strand of evidence, still less
anu demonstration of supernatural involvement.

If you choose to remain in the dark ages, that is your deal,
chronic and probably incurable.

It does, though, not excuse such egregious ignorance as talking
of "proof" in science. One can play semantic games with
"demonstration" of evolution, but any claim about a lack of
evidence is either simply lying, or, extreme ignorance.

Why you chose to respond to what I said with irrelevancy
and falsehood, I do not know.

You spoke of what can be "known" or "clearly seen" about
"god" is itself unclear, if not total fantasy.

If you dont want to actually respond to what I say, maybe
dont say anything at all?

 

[Audie]

Wouldn't this be like asking to see the neighbors house before you have even seen your own? Is 100% of Earth explored and known? Don't get me wrong. I truly believe in space exploration, but believe that tax dollars should be used to solve the problems we have on our own planet first; space exploration being secondary.

Kinda like a creationist saying he loves science but.

IF the decision really is to "solve earth problems first" then,
that is the end of space exploration ever, for lo, problems
will never be all solved.

I THINK maybe what you mean is something about the common
sense of not wildly spending money on luxuries before dealing
with necessities.

There is no bright line distinction between the two, of course.
I believe that sober judgement indicates we need to go ahead
with basic research in many many fields, some of which show
no promise of ever being economically useful in themselves.

 

[Audie]

Easily settled to your standard of evidence, maybe, but the fact that the world has 5.5 billion non-Christians suggests to me that the Bible doesn't "easily settle" much for most people.

... but good luck showing otherwise when you return.

The standard standard being, "This was I raised, thus doth I
believe."

 

[nPeace]

Easily settled to your standard of evidence, maybe, but the fact that the world has 5.5 billion non-Christians suggests to me that the Bible doesn't "easily settle" much for most people.

... but good luck showing otherwise when you return.

First of all, I would like to mention, in the hope that it will show the illogical, and irrelevant argument about thousands of different religions and gods.
The thousands, or billions of counterfeit dollars do not refute the fact that there is real money, nor make real money invalid.
Likewise, millions of religions and gods, do not refute the fact that there is a true and living God - maker of heaven and earth.
I hope that puts that logical fallacy to rest.

Secondly, just because someone does not understand something, that does not mean, it is not understandable.
Just as code is designed by the individual who intends it to be understood, only by those it is intended for, we should understand that this can be applied where the Bible is concerned. Not that the Bible is coded, but according to what it says, it is not for all to grasp, the things the spirit says.
Let those that have ears hear, and eyes see.
That statement is not even understood the same way by all, so that's an example.

So for one thing, if what the Bible says, is true (and it is), and we can prove it is true (which we have), then that is one clear evidence that God is.
It is also clear evidence of the truth we arrive at, that creation gives evidence of a creator... although that speaks for itself, without the Bible.

So there is enough evidence.
The only thing is, we are free agents, with the ability to interpret things however we want, and to suit whatever we want to believe, so we can argue about these until pigs grow wings and fly, the only time they will be proven, is when "the fat lady sings". ...and she has not sung yet. So what do we do in the meantime? Argue? When will it ever end?

What do you suggest?

 

[Audie]

First of all, I would like to mention, in the hope that it will show the illogical, and irrelevant argument about thousands of different religions and gods.
The thousands, or billions of counterfeit dollars do not refute the fact that there is real money, nor make real money invalid.
Likewise, millions of religions and gods, do not refute the fact that there is a true and living God - maker of heaven and earth.
I hope that puts that logical fallacy to rest.

Secondly, just because someone does not understand something, that does not mean, it is not understandable.
Just as code is designed by the individual who intends it to be understood, only by those it is intended for, we should understand that this can be applied where the Bible is concerned. Not that the Bible is coded, but according to what it says, it is not for all to grasp, the things the spirit says.
Let those that have ears hear, and eyes see.
That statement is not even understood the same way by all, so that's an example.

So for one thing, if what the Bible says, is true (and it is), and we can prove it is true (which we have), then that is one clear evidence that God is.
It is also clear evidence of the truth we arrive at, that creation gives evidence of a creator... although that speaks for itself, without the Bible.

So there is enough evidence.
The only thing is, we are free agents, with the ability to interpret things however we want, and to suit whatever we want to believe, so we can argue about these until pigs grow wings and fly, the only time they will be proven, is when "the fat lady sings". ...and she has not sung yet. So what do we do in the meantime? Argue? When will it ever end?

What do you suggest?

There is no logical fallacy in pointing out that in the absence of
any way to know which if any is true, it seems improbable that
you had the amazing luck to get the one True dollar bill, or religion.


Secondly, just because someone does not understand something, that does not mean, it is not understandable.

We so often try t o get the creationists to understand that much!

So for one thing, if what the Bible says, is true (and it is), and we can prove it is true (which we have),

Really now. Example? You proved that there really is a place called
Egypt?
How about the proof that there was no "flood"?

the ability to interpret things however we want,

And there you have it. What a marvellously compact
way to explain religious belief.

No rules, no standards, no logic, nothing but personal
whim.

Poor old law and science have to cripple along with
the horrors of evidence and disciplined thought.

Wouldn't it be marvy for you to be on trial for your
life with a jury who were instructed to interpret
(Hey, you are free to) the evidence any way they want?

Maybe you should think this over a bit.

 

[MJ Bailey]

The worth of GPS to the world's economy is about one hundred billion dollars a year.
That's about, in real terms, what the American moon program "cost."
Imagine, just GPS alone. Not counting communication, resource sensing, environmental
observation, ship tracking, fire sensing and a gazillion other things.
During the 1960's when America invested such a huge sum in space, everything from
upgrading their universities to promoting science and engineering - America went through
a decade long economic boom.

I wish Elon Musk and his SpaceX company well. He will be the world's first trillionaire
maybe. I wish he would take his company to another country where space is appreciated
as the treasure trove it is.

You have mistaken what I have meant. His interests already lie within other countries however. You mention the 60's space race, well that was to even reach outer space and try to touch a dim light that reflects in the night sky; in which yes did help to accelerate intellectual developments. I honestly do believe that space exploration is way more important than even some experts may warrant, but I live on Earth which a part of space. In comparison our small planet in which we have used, abused and took for granted is way more important considering humans can not exist in the realms of Dark Matter, nor have found a feasibly reachable planet in which to continue existing. Many scientists now currently believe in the absolute possibility of advanced alien habitation within the known Universe: if this is so, how do you think they would react to a lifeform in which cannot or will not take care of its own habitat before trying to take on another one?

 

[coconut theology]

"Then I would believe." Right?

Well, no. You wouldn't. And that's because anyone who wants God to pop into view and play the magic trick game, probably doesn't actually understand why they would want to see God in the first place. In fact, some of them would either vent for several hours about everything God has done wrong, or try to kill Him. ...

Well, God did show up, several times in the history of this world, personally. One time God showed up even in the likeness of sinful flesh - Christ Jesus (the Son of the Father). Not only did God's own people try to kill him, they did kill him (humanity, not Divinity).

Every prayer of every atheist is soon to be answered in a most spectacular way. They will indeed all stand before God, and see with their own eyes and confess with their own mouth the truth. It's just that most aren't that patient to wait until then (and desire immediate interaction, as if God had to agree to the terms of a petulant child) and of course, they are impatient, being without the fruit of the Spirit. Yet, even so, their desire will be granted. It will not help them at that time though.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Every prayer of every atheist is soon to be answered in a most spectacular way.

What atheists do you know that "pray?"

They will indeed all stand before God, and see with their own eyes and confess with their own mouth the truth.

Highly doubtful. I know you don't have good evidence for this nor any way to demonstrate the truth of it. I feel you should think more about why that is.

It's just that most aren't that patient to wait until then (and desire immediate interaction, as if God had to agree to the terms of a petulant child) and of course, they are impatient, being without the fruit of the Spirit.

Petulant child? What about an inquisitive child who asks questions? Do you feel that they are also doing "something wrong?" I know I have heard stories that affect such about religion's and their adherents. Such as first-hand accounts of people who grew up in religious households who were discouraged when they raised questions, or even punished outright if the answers given weren't good enough and the child still had more questions. If God is not strong enough to face scrutiny, then He is a very pathetic creature indeed. I would count myself stronger than Him if He is truly that weak. Or perhaps it is the people who make claims about God that are not strong enough to face scrutiny, eh? They are the ones getting infuriated enough to exact punishment on someone for merely asking questions.

Yet, even so, their desire will be granted. It will not help them at that time though.

What "desire" is this? To "see" God and finally "have proof?" I have no such "desire." I simply want to know what is true... no matter what that is. If that is that God exists, so be it. If it is that He doesn't - so be it. I have no "desire" to see God or see proof of God. I've stated before that were God proved to be real, I would be very disappointed with the state of the universe at that point. It would no longer be the place I thought it was... and I would have so many MORE questions that I would want answers to. As it stands, I don't have to wonder "why" certain things happen to people who don't seem to "deserve" them. Things happen, and there is no need to cast blame. It is quite liberating. But all that liberty of thought would be destroyed if I were to learn that God actually does exist.

 

[Audie]

What atheists do you know that "pray?"

Highly doubtful. I know you don't have good evidence for this nor any way to demonstrate the truth of it. I feel you should think more about why that is.

Petulant child? What about an inquisitive child who asks questions? Do you feel that they are also doing "something wrong?" I know I have heard stories that affect such about religion's and their adherents. Such as first-hand accounts of people who grew up in religious households who were discouraged when they raised questions, or even punished outright if the answers given weren't good enough and the child still had more questions. If God is not strong enough to face scrutiny, then He is a very pathetic creature indeed. I would count myself stronger than Him if He is truly that weak. Or perhaps it is the people who make claims about God that are not strong enough to face scrutiny, eh? They are the ones getting infuriated enough to exact punishment on someone for merely asking questions.

What "desire" is this? To "see" God and finally "have proof?" I have no such "desire." I simply want to know what is true... no matter what that is. If that is that God exists, so be it. If it is that He doesn't - so be it. I have no "desire" to see God or see proof of God. I've stated before that were God proved to be real, I would be very disappointed with the state of the universe at that point. It would no longer be the place I thought it was... and I would have so many MORE questions that I would want answers to. As it stands, I don't have to wonder "why" certain things happen to people who don't seem to "deserve" them. Things happen, and there is no need to cast blame. It is quite liberating. But all that liberty of thought would be destroyed if I were to learn that God actually does exist.

The "child" here is the one who is in effect saying
"Wait till my daddy gets here, he will beat you up."