If God exists, is there a problem with offerings to other gods?

[Brian2]

And what if the neighbors god is the actual, true god? Then what I said originally HOLDS. That is, that the writer of the OP would be the one "in trouble" or finding himself with a problem. So all his talk about his neighbors is misdirected. He should also be talking about himself. Do you not agree? And if you do not... then consider yourself a non-critical thinker Brian.

If his neighbours are right he might be in trouble if their god was a jealous god.
The OP says that the thread was under the premise that the God if the Bible is real, as outlined in the Bible. That's just like saying "let's imagine that the God of the Bible is real".

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

If his neighbours are right he might be in trouble if their god was a jealous god.
The OP says that the thread was under the premise that the God if the Bible is real, as outlined in the Bible. That's just like saying "let's imagine that the God of the Bible is real".

You are correct, and it seems I am the one who is missing something. The OP does, indeed, start by asking us to believe that the God of The Bible is the one, true God before then going on to judge his neighbors shrine-making activities as improper.

My mistake.

However - as I already sort of alluded to - this thread now just seems like a trick of a way to get various others to agree with the OP that it is "impolite" to his specific god for his neighbors to make a shrine to something other than his god. Is the point ONLY to ask whether we might think it impolite to such a god (assuming it exists)? Is it trying to make us all empathize with the god of The Bible and his terrible plight finding himself surrounded by people who don't realize He exists and wasting all His precious materials on tributes to other gods? I'll re-address the OP with this in mind.

 

[sun rise]

My neighbors have a shrine.

God is One. Any love and devotion offered to the One arrives at the destination by whatever route it's offered as many rivers lead to the sea.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I am re-addressing this because it was pointed out to me that I missed something pertinent to the thrust of the OP.

This post is under the premise that God is real - I mean the Creator God as outlined in the Bible.
God gives ressources to a population out of love. If they use it for offerings to some gods that did not provide these things, it's wasting them, which would be impolite towards the (real) creator.

If we assume that your God exists, and that He gives the resources of the planet for the humans/creatures of Earth out of love, then I suppose that, based on our experience with human emotions in such situations, we might expect that God would have some issue with the gifts He has provided being utilized for purposes other than He intended.

In our realm (humans, Earthly existence, etc.) when a person gives a gift, and then finds out that the person he/she gave it to sold it, or re-gifted it, that person who gave the gift often is seen to feel hurt by what appears to be a display of indifference to the gift given. Isn't that right? HUMANS display these emotions over gifts they have given, and get upset and throw mini-tantrums for themselves when they find that someone didn't find their gift quite as amazing as they had expected the other to find it. Correct?

Please note why I took the particular tone I did in the paragraph above. It is because such emotions over gifts "given in love" are CHILDISH. As in - it is the way I would expect a child to think. To attach meaning to an object, on your own, and then expect that everyone else attach the same amount and strength of meaning. That's an infantile response to such a situation. You don't get to determine how invested a person is in a particular object, or gift, etc. You don't. Do you at least see how ridiculous it would be to claim that you DO get to determine how much someone else should value something?

 

[Windwalker]

When you give a gift to somebody out of love and they use it to burn it to your enemy, how would you feel?

If you tell someone you love them, and they don't love you in return, how do you feel? Anger? Rage? Violent? Then maybe that "love" was never about them, but was about you looking for something for yourself?

"I love you.... you love me too right? Right?? NO?? Then I hate you!!" What's that about?

For instance, if you have a girl friend and you sit down pondering about what might please her... coming up with a beautiful bracelet.
How would you feel if she burns it to please another guy, your competitor, who is into burning things?

Yeah, it's sucks when people don't respond the way we wanted them to. "I was nice to them, but they didn't give me what I wanted. What a loser they are anyway!". Is this love?

To answer the question, how I would feel is that that person has their own priorities, but if I truly loved them, I would not impose upon them my needs and expectations of them to fulfill those for me. I would let them pursue the path that they feel will best suit them. My love for them, will allow me to not attempt to control them for my gain.

Being angry is just a natural reaction in this case. There is nothing vindictive about it.

But there is something selfish about it. Being disappointed in them, is natural. Being angry at them, is not about them, but about you and how you respond to not getting what you hoped for.

Lets further assume your girl friend calls you vindictive for criticising her, how would you feel?

If I were mature, I'd look at what they were saying in an honest self reflection. Perhaps I really am being selfish and not thinking about them and what they want for their lives. Maybe she is right to leave me?

 

[stvdv]

If God exists, is there a problem with offerings to other gods?

IMO:
How I read the Bible there is no problem to make offerings to other Gods. I found quite a few verses that confirm this

• Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed - Exodus
• They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. - 2nd chronicles

• Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him. - Deuteronomy

I started also with kindergarten, but I decided to move on to the university, and naturally had to let go pictures of kindergarten; glad I did

 

[VoidCat]

Also, despite of the thoughtfulness of your replies, where do the ressources come from you share with the other lovers?

In my opinion I dont know how the earth came into existence...could the God of abraham had made it? Sure. Could someone else have? Definitely. Could it have been the big bang? Maybe. Something else that we dont know? Perhaps. Who made it isnt important to me. But thats just what I believe

 

[VoidCat]

@thomas t thanks for this post so far the responses are fasincinating and I am enjoying reading them...Also the OP and some of your posts on this thread are making me think.

 

[stvdv]

it's your opinion, but it's also an unsupported allegation. No verse in your post.

Yes.

I am confident with my belief and I am fine that others belief differently. So, I see no need to prove myself right or to prove others wrong

 

[Brian2]

You are correct, and it seems I am the one who is missing something. The OP does, indeed, start by asking us to believe that the God of The Bible is the one, true God before then going on to judge his neighbors shrine-making activities as improper.

My mistake.

However - as I already sort of alluded to - this thread now just seems like a trick of a way to get various others to agree with the OP that it is "impolite" to his specific god for his neighbors to make a shrine to something other than his god. Is the point ONLY to ask whether we might think it impolite to such a god (assuming it exists)? Is it trying to make us all empathize with the god of The Bible and his terrible plight finding himself surrounded by people who don't realize He exists and wasting all His precious materials on tributes to other gods? I'll re-address the OP with this in mind.

Yes a good idea. Ask Thomas t about that.

 

[firedragon]

I started also with kindergarten, but I decided to move on to the university, and naturally had to let go pictures of kindergarten; glad I did

Really! So mate, could you please provide the university scholarship you gained on the Judaic God of the Tanakh having no issues with anyone with offering to other God's?

Thanks in advance.

 

[firedragon]

Yes.

I am confident with my belief and I am fine that others belief differently. So, I see no need to prove myself right or to prove others wrong

I think you have just shown your character.

You just basically claimed everyone else is kindergarten and you are at the university level. But you fail to see a logical fallacy when you are acting it. The fallacy of burden of proof is making a statement and expecting others to prove it wrong. Rather, why not act like who you claim you are and provide some university level scholarship of the Tanakh to show that the God of the Tanakh allowed offering to other Gods?

I think rather than trying to demean others and trying to show that you are Godly, you know others are kindergarten and you are varsity, why dont you simply provide evidence to your claim? Is not that a more grown up thing to do?

Please show your scholarship form the university while the kindergarten kids watch you in. Show the biblical scholarship to prove your claim.

 

[Windwalker]

I think you have just shown your character.

You just basically claimed everyone else is kindergarten and you are at the university level. But you fail to see a logical fallacy when you are acting it. The fallacy of burden of proof is making a statement and expecting others to prove it wrong. Rather, why not act like who you claim you are and provide some university level scholarship of the Tanakh to show that the God of the Tanakh allowed offering to other Gods?

I think rather than trying to demean others and trying to show that you are Godly, you know others are kindergarten and you are varsity, why dont you simply provide evidence to your claim? Is not that a more grown up thing to do?

Please show your scholarship form the university while the kindergarten kids watch you in. Show the biblical scholarship to prove your claim.

I see you take offense at someone saying that they consider believing God is petty and vindictive to be an immature understanding of the Divine. Yet, did not the Apostle Paul himself speak many times about those who are still needing milk and not mature enough for strong meat yet? Didn't he contrast those who are still thinking as children, and with those who are mature?

Maybe instead of taking offense at that, consider that other may have a more sophisticated, or mature understanding of God than who they thought about God from Sunday School teachings? "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ". Do you take offense at Paul's words too?

Certainly, there are those who see God in terms of a child's view of a Strict Father. But there are also those who see God in terms of Nurturant Parent, or beyond that even, yet they are not given over to sin and debauchery, as some younger in faith may believe they must be if they don't imagine God in the ways they do.

 

[firedragon]

I see you take offense at someone saying that they consider believing God is petty and vindictive to be an immature understanding of the Divine. Yet, did not the Apostle Paul himself speak many times about those who are still needing milk and not mature enough for strong meat yet? Didn't he contrast those who are still thinking as children, and not yet mature?

Maybe instead of taking offense at that, consider that other may have a more sophisticated, or mature understanding of God than who they thought about God from Sunday School teachings? "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ". Do you take offense at Paul's words too?

No. You are wrong.

He claimed that the Biblical God of the Old Testament has no problem with anyone making offerings to other Gods. I showed some verses that proves otherwise, "HE" took offence, and claimed that he has gone from kindergarten to the university insulting others of being at the kindergarten level.

Of course, I dont mind hearing from you since you seem to side with him "can you provide some biblical scholarship to prove that YHWH is perfectly fine with anyone worshiping or making offerings to other Gods"?

Please show.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Yes a good idea. Ask Thomas t about that.

I don't believe I thanked you, originally, for the correction. So thanks.

 

[HonestJoe]

I think the jealousy thing might be right in this case for God.
Jealousy is normal in certain instances, I guess.

Jealousy (and anger as you mentioned earlier) might be normal (though not admirable) in flawed mortals but why would you expect it to be normal for God?

The Biblical God is meat to be infinite, all-knowing and all-powerful. I don't see how any petty emotions could be in any way relevant to such a being. I'm not even sure how they'd be logically possible.

I do think this boils down to the more fundamental contradiction of God being described as this unimaginably great and powerful being but at the same time anthropomorphised as some relatable person with all the same kind of wants, needs and demands as any other powerful leader might have. I don't think you can have it both ways.

 

[Thief]

you cannot serve two masters
you will love one and hate the other

if God be......God

who do you serve?
the Greater God?
or the lesser one?

 

[Windwalker]

No. You are wrong.

He claimed that the Biblical God of the Old Testament has no problem with anyone making offerings to other Gods.

I did not see him claiming those verses were not there. I saw you instead refuting his idea that God is really not like that, and you slamming him with verses to prove he was like that. I think everyone knows those verses are there. What they think about them however, does show differences in understandings about God though, which I believe was his point.

Of course, I dont mind hearing from you since you seem to side with him "can you provide some biblical scholarship to prove that YHWH is perfectly fine with anyone worshiping or making offerings to other Gods"?

Please show.

If you are looking for scholarship that addresses why we see God being violent in the Bible, I can provide that for you. While it does require some effort to understand, here's a quick reference to where you can find more information about that in a thread I started some time ago: How to Read the Bible, and Still be a Christian

I know people take offense at the idea that their views are less developed than those of others, but that's just pride speaking, IMHO. There are always understandings of the Divine which are more mature than our own we are currently holding. That was true for me from what I believed in my early 20's, to what I believe today now decades later. There is a considerable growth trajectory between then and now. And it is a true now for my thinking today, by contrast to what it will be in the future if I continue to grow and mature.

If you take offense at looking at the stages or levels of development, then you must find Paul's writings offense as well, since he addresses that distinction in many places. Romans 14 is a good place to start.

 

[Vinayaka]

My challenge here is why anyone would feel that it's any of their business what the neighbours do. Of course there are valid reasons like a tree about to fall into your yard, noisy barking dogs, but a shrine? Wow.

 

[Windwalker]

My challenge here is why anyone would feel that it's any of their business what the neighbours do. Of course there are valid reasons like a tree about to fall into your yard, noisy barking dogs, but a shrine? Wow.

Maybe it's a noisy shrine?