If God is loving and omnibenevolent why would God…

[Trailblazer]

I believe there is only one way,

So you believe that the one way is God, through whatever religion He is revealed?
I can go with that.

 

[InChrist]

I agree that an All powerful, All knowing God knows more than you or me, but I don't believe there is only one way to God for all of time and eternity, as Christians believe, since that makes no sense to me if God is benevolent and loving.

You are certainly free to have your own beliefs, but I think the scriptures show that God chose to have one way and demonstrated that because of His very Personal love.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

 

[Spice]

You are certainly free to have your own beliefs, but I think the scriptures show that God chose to have one way and demonstrated that because of His very Personal love.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

Both Hellenists schools of thought, which is not necessarily a bad thing. But it should not override what Jesus taught.

Matthew 7:1“Judge not, that you be not judged.......9Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?
Matthew 8:10When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith. 11I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, 12while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” 13And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; let it be done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment.
And in Matthew 20:13But he replied to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14Take what belongs to you and go. I choose to give to this last worker as I give to you. 15Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?’

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If God is loving and omnibenevolent why would God make Christianity the only true religion and Jesus the only way to God?

That makes no sense to me and that is one reason why I could never be a Christian. I believe that God is just and it would be terribly unjust if Christianity was the only true religion and Jesus was the only way to God. What about the 67% of the world population who are not Christians? Even worse, to say that all those people are going to hell is an untenable belief. How can people actually believe that?

It’s time for Christians to stand up and defend their beliefs.

“It’s in the Bible” is not good enough because the Bible can be used to support any beliefs that people want to hold. I can even use the Bible to support my Baha’i beliefs.

Wow, that is some hypocrisy here. Those in glass houses and all. Baha'is believe they're the one true religion, too, and everyone else is wrong to varying degrees. Well, until your god changes his mind and creates another religion that contradicts the ones that came before.

Also, Christians are constantly having to defend their beliefs on this board. Did you think you were being brave with yet another thread bashing Christianity?

 

[Trailblazer]

Wow, that is some hypocrisy here. Those in glass houses and all. Baha'is believe they're the one true religion, too,

No, Baha'is do not claim we are the only true religion. Christianity claims that. We only believe that we are the religion for the present age.
Moreover, we believe more religions will be established in the future that will supersede the Baha'i Faith.

and everyone else is wrong to varying degrees. Well, until your god changes his mind and creates another religion that contradicts the ones that came before.

What is 'wrong' is what the followers and leaders of those religions have done to corrupt those religions since they were originally revealed.
God did not change His mind, God simply added on to the religious truth that was already revealed. You don't think an omnipotent God can do that?

Also, Christians are constantly having to defend their beliefs on this board. Did you think you were being brave with yet another thread bashing Christianity?

I was not bashing Christianity. I was just asking a question. Apparently you cannot answer my question:

If God is loving and omnibenevolent why would God make Christianity the only true religion and Jesus the only way to God?
What about the 67% of the world population who are not Christians?


“It’s in the Bible” is not good enough because the Bible can be used to support any beliefs that people want to hold. I can even use the Bible to support my Baha’i beliefs.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

According to your finite, limited understanding….

No. According to common sense.

maybe, but I am of the view that an All powerful, All knowing God knows more than you or me and has come up with the most efficient, effective, wisest and most loving way.

But it's obviously not the most efficient nor the most effective.
If it were, there wouldn't be thousands of different religions...

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

No. According to common sense.


But it's obviously not the most efficient nor the most effective.
If it were, there wouldn't be thousands of different religions...

Give it up. Efficient and effective have only subjective measurement standards. I get what you are saying, but that humans have different ways to do morality as subjective is a part of how the world works.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Give it up. Efficient and effective have only subjective measurement standards.

Not when it is used in terms of comparison.


A car 'A' that requires less fuel to travel a distance X then another car 'B' traveling the same distance, is objectively more efficient in its fuel use.

I get what you are saying, but that humans have different ways to do morality as subjective is a part of how the world works.

Yeah, and that's how you get people who think it is "moral" to blow yourself up in a crowded market or by flying into buildings.
Or who think it is "moral" to send gay people to "re-education camps"
Or who think it is "immoral" for white and black people to make babies
etc.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Not when it is used in terms of comparison.


A car 'A' that requires less fuel to travel a distance X then another car 'B' traveling the same distance, is objectively more efficient in its fuel use.
...

Yeah, that is objective. Now do the same for morality.

 

[wellwisher]

If God is loving and omnibenevolent why would God make Christianity the only true religion and Jesus the only way to God?

That makes no sense to me and that is one reason why I could never be a Christian. I believe that God is just and it would be terribly unjust if Christianity was the only true religion and Jesus was the only way to God. What about the 67% of the world population who are not Christians? Even worse, to say that all those people are going to hell is an untenable belief. How can people actually believe that?

It’s time for Christians to stand up and defend their beliefs.

“It’s in the Bible” is not good enough because the Bible can be used to support any beliefs that people want to hold. I can even use the Bible to support my Baha’i beliefs.

If I am not mistaken God (the Father) is morally neutral. He is a blend of loving and hating, which cancels and thereby loses moral value. God is everything and not just the good half of the whole. He is the alpha and the omega.He is the good, the bad and the ugly. It is Jesus, his son, who is the loving and the omni-benevolent aspect of the divinity. If you read the Old Testament, God did not have much patience with the humans. The great flood of Noah, was a time when God was really pissed with humans and decided to erase the humans from the earth and start new, with a few hopeful prototypes. God is more practical and results orientated with all the tools at his disposal.

It was Jesus who said

Matthew 11:28-30

28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

Jesus did away with all the burdensome yoke of the law and all its red tape that attempts to define the neutral complexity of God, into polarized laws and knowledge of good and evil. Jesus reduced this complex convolution of polarized rules to just, Love God and Love your neighbor. He welcomed all, Jew and Gentile.

However, by Jesus becoming polarized to the good side of the polarization of good and evil, the so-called bad side of God also polarized into Satan and then the Devil. God the Father, remains neutral, since the rain still falls on the good and the evil man. We can all come to God; world religions, but the Son has a special peaceful place; Heaven, for those who choose the good side of God and not some version of law; knowledge of good and evil which comes from Satan.

Luke 15 1Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. 2 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”

3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it?5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

It comes down to the choice to do good and be good. What was does not matter, since there is forgiveness of sins. Jesus's yoke is light and not weighty like the law of any rules based religion. Jesus also left behind the spirit of truth, which gives one direction of truth, like instinct, so like the animal, you can act by any means necessary and still remain innocent; change of heart.

 

[CG Didymus]

Wow, that is some hypocrisy here. Those in glass houses and all. Baha'is believe they're the one true religion, too, and everyone else is wrong to varying degrees. Well, until your god changes his mind and creates another religion that contradicts the ones that came before.

I agree completely. If all the other religions have the truth for today, there would be no need for the Baha'i Faith. But Baha'is believe that the teachings their prophet has brought has replaced the teachings of all the other religions. Plus, they believe that the other religions have added in wrong interpretations and wrong traditions into the mix.

But, if the claims in the NT are correct, there is no replacement for what Jesus did. The Born-Again Christian beliefs have sin entering the world and people not being able to be good enough to earn their way into heaven. Jesus, the unblemished sacrificial lamb, was the only person that could pay the penalty for the sins of the world.

Now if the Baha'is want to claim that the NT doesn't say that and that the Christians are wrong in interpreting it that way, then that's okay. But they have to show how and why that Christian interpretation is wrong. And they do try.

They make the claim that people aren't born in sin. Making the need for a savior that pays the penalty for their sins not necessary. But then why did Jesus so willingly let himself be crucified? What a waste if it was not God's plan to have him die that way.

But, in the gospel stories, God raises him up from the dead. But not in the Baha'i version of the story. The resurrection is interpreted by Baha'is as being only a spiritual resurrection. The body of Jesus died, but his spirit rose again. But what's so unusual about that? They believe everybody's spirit rises and lives on.

By the time Baha'is are done, they have done away with every contradictory belief held by any of the other major religions and have made them all conform to Baha'i beliefs. Making all of them just one nice progression of spiritual teachings from one religion to the next... with them being the latest one. So technically, they're not the "only" one, but they are the "only" one that is true right now. All the others are outdated and have been replaced.

 

[Trailblazer]

I agree completely. If all the other religions have the truth for today, there would be no need for the Baha'i Faith. But Baha'is believe that the teachings their prophet has brought has replaced the teachings of all the other religions.

That is a misrepresentation of what Baha'is believe.

We believe that all the other religions have the same spiritual teachings which contain eternal truths, so they will never be abrogated.
The Baha'i Faith has not 'replaced' any of the spiritual teachings of the older religions, they have only been reiterated and renewed.

Plus, they believe that the other religions have added in wrong interpretations and wrong traditions into the mix.

Yes, Baha'is do believe that.

But, if the claims in the NT are correct, there is no replacement for what Jesus did. The Born-Again Christian beliefs have sin entering the world and people not being able to be good enough to earn their way into heaven. Jesus, the unblemished sacrificial lamb, was the only person that could pay the penalty for the sins of the world.

Absolutely. There is no replacement for what Jesus did on the cross when He sacrificed Himself for our sins of humanity. That is a Baha'i belief.

Now if the Baha'is want to claim that the NT doesn't say that and that the Christians are wrong in interpreting it that way, then that's okay. But they have to show how and why that Christian interpretation is wrong. And they do try.

They make the claim that people aren't born in sin. Making the need for a savior that pays the penalty for their sins not necessary. But then why did Jesus so willingly let himself be crucified? What a waste if it was not God's plan to have him die that way.

Again, that is a misrepresentation of what Baha'is believe.

We do not believe that Jesus sacrificed himself for an original sin of Adam and Eve, and Jesus never made any such claim. Jesus never spoke of any original sin, that is a Christian doctrine. However, we all have a sinful nature (as well as a spiritual nature) since we inherited the propensity to sin form Adam, and Jesus sacrificed Himself for our sin.

But, in the gospel stories, God raises him up from the dead. But not in the Baha'i version of the story. The resurrection is interpreted by Baha'is as being only a spiritual resurrection. The body of Jesus died, but his spirit rose again. But what's so unusual about that? They believe everybody's spirit rises and lives on.

Yes, that is what Baha'i's believe. So what if it is not unusual?
What would even be the point of the physical body of Jesus rising again, given all physical bodies die eventually since they are mortal?

By the time Baha'is are done, they have done away with every contradictory belief held by any of the other major religions and have made them all conform to Baha'i beliefs. Making all of them just one nice progression of spiritual teachings from one religion to the next... with them being the latest one.

Again, that is a misrepresentation of what Baha'is have done.

We are not trying to make contradictory beliefs held by any of the other major religions conform to Baha'i beliefs.
As I have told you before, the Baha'i Faith is a new religion, separate from the other religions. We have no interest in changing anything in the older religions to make them conform with the Baha'i Faith. However, we will comment upon what we do not believe is true in the older religions, which is what has been corrupted and misinterpreted by man since those religions were revealed.

So technically, they're not the "only" one, but they are the "only" one that is true right now. All the others are outdated and have been replaced.

Again, that is a misrepresentation of what Baha'is believe.

We do not believe that we are the only religion that is 'true right now.'
All religions contain the same spiritual truths which are eternal so they never change.

What is 'new' is the message of Baha'u'llah -- the unity of mankind, that we are all one people, and religion is one unfolding process that continues over time. Baha'u'llah also revealed some new social teachings and laws.

I hope that @Saint Frankenstein will take note of what I have said. Moreover, I like many things about Christianity I like better than the Baha'i Faith, and I am more inspired by Christians than I am by Baha'is. I listen to Christian music all the time and it restores my faith in God when it is waning.

 

[Colt]

If God is loving and omnibenevolent why would God make Christianity the only true religion and Jesus the only way to God?

That makes no sense to me and that is one reason why I could never be a Christian. I believe that God is just and it would be terribly unjust if Christianity was the only true religion and Jesus was the only way to God. What about the 67% of the world population who are not Christians? Even worse, to say that all those people are going to hell is an untenable belief. How can people actually believe that?

It’s time for Christians to stand up and defend their beliefs.

“It’s in the Bible” is not good enough because the Bible can be used to support any beliefs that people want to hold. I can even use the Bible to support my Baha’i beliefs.

Jesus didn’t start Christianity and when he said that he is the way it was because he is our Creator Son but he has a Father. Under his regime we will pass through his creation as we make our way to the Father.

Any person seeking God in ANY of the evolved religions will be heard by God!!!!! God is in each person and knows our hearts desire.

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha'is believe they're the one true religion, too, and everyone else is wrong to varying degrees. Well, until your god changes his mind and creates another religion that contradicts the ones that came before.

Well TB doesn't agree with some of the things I said. I hope you have time to read her response to me. I still don't agree with some of her responses, but I'd be interested in hearing what you think.

 

[GardenLady]

but I think the scriptures show that God chose to have one way

Which scriptures? The ones you were exposed to in a western hemisphere, predominately (but not entirely) Christian society? What about other scriptures?

 

[CG Didymus]

You are certainly free to have your own beliefs, but I think the scriptures show that God chose to have one way and demonstrated that because of His very Personal love.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

I do agree with you that the NT teaches that there's is only one way to get saved and that is through Jesus. I just don't believe it. But I don't agree with what the Baha'is believe either. Especially their claim that the "original" teachings were corrupted. What "original" teachings do we have other than the NT? And Baha'is disagree with what the NT says... except for a few cherry-picked verses that support their beliefs.

They don't believe people are born with a sin nature. They don't believe in Satan, demons and hell are real. And they don't believe anybody came back to life after being dead... Lazurus, Jesus or anybody. Their preferred way to interpret these beliefs is to say that they were meant to be taken "symbolically".

So, it doesn't matter what the NT really says... for a Baha'i, they have ways to get around it. Plus, they have ways to write themselves into the Bible and the NT. Their prophet, they claim, is the promised "comforter". Their two prophets, the Bab and Baha'u'llah, along with Muhammad, are the "Three Woes" in Revelation.

It all makes sense to them. But then what was so important about Jesus and the teachings in the NT? All the important beliefs, the Christians misinterpreted and got wrong.

 

[InChrist]

No. According to common sense.


But it's obviously not the most efficient nor the most effective.
If it were, there wouldn't be thousands of different religions...

I think there would be and are thousands of different religions because these are the perfect distraction from the truth; that the way to heaven/eternal life is a Person Jesus Christ not a religion.
People like religion because it makes them feel they are doing something, earning their way by their own efforts to be good, impress a deity, look spiritual, whatever. Satan knows human nature and feeds and fuels endless religions.

 

[CG Didymus]

I think there would be and are thousands of different religions because these are the perfect distraction from the truth; that the way to heaven/eternal life is a Person Jesus Christ not a religion.
People like religion because it makes them feel they are doing something, earning their way by their own efforts to be good, impress a deity, look spiritual, whatever. Satan knows human nature and feeds and fuels endless religions.

But in ancient times, religions were almost forced on the people. The King was made a God, and if anybody disagreed with him, they were killed.

And every people and culture had their own Gods and religions. So, at least some of them had to be completely made up and false.

But then the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob became the "real" God and the only true one. Then Jesus became the only true way to reach that one true God. Then Islam and the Baha'i Faith claimed they were the spiritual heirs to that God.

One of the good things about the Baha'i beliefs is that they claim all of the major religions came from that one true God. But... it's only good if it's true. Just like the beliefs of any one Christian sect is only good if it's really true. And that's a big problem, because they, and every other major religion, have "proofs" and "evidence" from their Scriptures why they're true. So, there will always be people that believe and follow most any sect or denomination of any of the major religions. They all sound true to the believer. And, for the most part, they all work for the believer.

But they all contradict each other. So, there's reasons not to believe in any one of them or all of them.

 

[InChrist]

But in ancient times, religions were almost forced on the people. The King was made a God, and if anybody disagreed with him, they were killed.

And every people and culture had their own Gods and religions. So, at least some of them had to be completely made up and false.

But then the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob became the "real" God and the only true one. Then Jesus became the only true way to reach that one true God. Then Islam and the Baha'i Faith claimed they were the spiritual heirs to that God.

One of the good things about the Baha'i beliefs is that they claim all of the major religions came from that one true God. But... it's only good if it's true. Just like the beliefs of any one Christian sect is only good if it's really true. And that's a big problem, because they, and every other major religion, have "proofs" and "evidence" from their Scriptures why they're true. So, there will always be people that believe and follow most any sect or denomination of any of the major religions. They all sound true to the believer. And, for the most part, they all work for the believer.

But they all contradict each other. So, there's reasons not to believe in any one of them or all of them.

Again, that’s why I don’t think believing in a religion, any religion, is the answer. Rather, seeking, knowing, and believing in the Creator God Himself; personally and directly.


And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.
Jeremiah 29:13

 

[InChrist]

Which scriptures? The ones you were exposed to in a western hemisphere, predominately (but not entirely) Christian society? What about other scriptures?

I am referring to the biblical scriptures. Yet, I did not trust Jesus Christ as my Savior, understand the Bible, or become born again to new life in Christ until I was over thirty. Prior to that time I studied and delved into different spiritual paths and philosophies, such as Eastern religions, new age and others.