If Heaven Exists

[Balthazzar]

We don't sustain heaven, God does.

I'm sorry ... umm, I'll both agree and disagree.

 

[Goldemar]

That's the goal - peace on earth and goodwill

Then it seems you do have a particular concept of Heaven you are working off of. Respectfully, perhaps it is that concept of Heaven that is the problem if you are trying to imagine how we would achieve/sustain it given the difficulties we have getting on with each other at the moment. My concept of Heaven is of a place apart from this Earth, a place we will not get to until we are spiritually ready for it. When we are spiritually ready for it we will have no problem living there in a state of perpetual peace and harmony eternally praising the Great God in Heaven. All those not spiritually ready will continue to live on Earth. So I believe.

 

[YoursTrue]

It does not directly state anything about challenges, only that there will be peace without end. It's an eternal monarchy, under a tyrant who rules with an iron first who you can't remove from power.

I wouldn't say people resent it when they're happy with life entirely, would you? Although I can't imagine a sane person saying they're happy with everything they see, hear, and experience. Since so many bad things are happening now, it's hard to say God is a tyrant ruling. Especially since He allows people to do their own thing now. And He will continue to do so, yet because He is the grand Judge, there will be a turning point insofar as His allowance goes.

 

[Balthazzar]

Then it seems you do have a particular concept of Heaven you are working off of. Respectfully, perhaps it is that concept of Heaven that is the problem if you are trying to imagine how we would achieve/sustain it given the difficulties we have getting on with each other at the moment. My concept of Heaven is of a place apart from this Earth, a place we will not get to until we are spiritually ready for it. When we are spiritually ready for it we will have no problem living there in a state of perpetual peace and harmony eternally praising the Great God in Heaven. All those not spiritually ready will continue to live on Earth. So I believe.

I would suggest that's the point of the op.

 

[Reyn]

I wouldn't say people resent it when they're happy with life entirely, would you? Although I can't imagine a sane person saying they're happy with everything they see, hear, and experience. Since so many bad things are happening now, it's hard to say God is a tyrant ruling. Especially since He allows people to do their own thing now. And He will continue to do so, yet because He is the grand Judge, there will be a turning point insofar as His allowance goes.

If you are constantly happy, does happiness not lose its value?

 

[Balthazzar]

If you are constantly happy, does happiness not lose its value?

It doesn't for the very reason that the moment you become sorrowful the diffrence between experiences is acknowledged. This doesn't decrease the value of happiness. It solidifies the value through the awareness of the opposite of. That's the reason most seek betterment in life and happiness ... we understand the value of.

 

[Goldemar]

I would suggest that's the point of the op.

Okay then!

 

[Reyn]

It doesn't for the very reason that the moment you become sorrowful the diffrence between experiences is acknowledged. This doesn't decrease the value of happiness. It solidifies the value through the awareness of the opposite of. That's the reason most seek betterment in life and happiness ... we understand the value of.

Where does it say people even remember the former times in scripture? Remember, the former things have passed away, such as death and sorrow. There will be no more tears. If you for example knew your loved ones were burning forever in Hell, would you be happy? Could you be? Unless you buy into annihilationism?

 

[Balthazzar]

Where does it say people even remember the former times in scripture? Remember, the former things have passed away, such as death and sorrow. There will be no more tears. If you for example knew your loved ones were burning forever in Hell, would you be happy? Could you be? Unless you buy into annihilationism?

I've considered it per Ecclesiastes and subscribe to on a personal level, but not on a future of humanity level. Perhaps eventually after the process'of evolution have evolved us (living beings) into what's to be. Life goes on in whatever new creation/forms that comes between here and there and after. Until then, and I'd suggest after, we continue the processes set before us. Annihilation? Into new creations according to scripture.

 

[Madmogwai]

Could a Heaven in another Realm be a result of Nature rather then a God

 

[Goldemar]

Could a Heaven in another Realm be a result of Nature rather then a God

What kind of Heaven, and what do you mean by Nature?

 

[Wildswanderer]

What are the chances of the "saved" being able to sustain the paradise believed to be heaven? We have a difficult enough time getting along here on earth between peaceful a goodwill seeking people. You're smoking?" You're not married? You have a "potty" mouth and you're homeless-how can you give him anything-you don't even have a job?

Heaven-

Is it a failed concept?

I imagine heaven as endless exploration.
The capability to be bored won't be available to us.
I'm still not sure where you got this idea that we somehow keep heaven heavenly.
God being quite literally in and through all would seem to be enough, don't you think?
I hope the new earth includes all my favorite places only without the flaws.
But we can never reach the end of God... so we can never experience imperfection in a perfect world.

 

[Balthazzar]

I imagine heaven as endless exploration.
The capability to be bored won't be available to us.
I'm still not sure where you got this idea that we somehow keep heaven heavenly.
God being quite literally in and through all would seem to be enough, don't you think?
I hope the new earth includes all my favorite places only without the flaws.
But we can never reach the end of God... so we can never experience imperfection in a perfect world.

Are we on the enterprise? I think earth is the ship. In a not too far away future, a few billion years, we get to enter the black hole deeper, our sun also. An entry into what I would deem a new birth, but then maybe I'm romatisizing the journey and seeing a new creation that isn't there.

 

[Truth in love]

Sheep burning? Oh, you mean the feed our community efforts and the requests to give a 10% portion to do so. Truth - it matters

I was referring the the law of Moses and the various sacrifices.

 

[Balthazzar]

I was referring the the law of Moses and the various sacrifices.

I'm not Jewish so ....

 

[Aupmanyav]

Heaven-
Is it a failed concept?

IMHO, it is a failure. Does not stop many from indulging in evil deeds, even Popes and priests.

 

[FredVB]

What are the chances of the "saved" being able to sustain the paradise believed to be heaven? We have a difficult enough time getting along here on earth between peaceful a goodwill seeking people. You're smoking?" You're not married? You have a "potty" mouth and you're homeless-how can you give him anything-you don't even have a job?

Heaven-

Is it a failed concept?

We ought to be doing things for betterment. How much we can do that will vary greatly between separate individuals. But any betterment, even all the very best for the whole world, will not make heaven from that happening. This is a world the way it is from our fall and continuing wrong things being done from all of us. Heaven is perfect, and restoration for creation with the repentant of humanity redeemed through Christ sent from God is a provision from God's mercy and compassion. Redeemed in the restoration are made new with the matured commitment and they will not be ruining it then, God provides for it to always continue.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

What are the chances of the "saved" being able to sustain the paradise believed to be heaven? We have a difficult enough time getting along here on earth between peaceful a goodwill seeking people. You're smoking?" You're not married? You have a "potty" mouth and you're homeless-how can you give him anything-you don't even have a job?

Heaven-

Is it a failed concept?

How about we get to paradise first before we concern about its sustainability. It’s a common pattern to avoid the responsibility of getting to step 1 by looking ahead at the challenges of steps 2, 3, 4, etc.

 

[Balthazzar]

We ought to be doing things for betterment. How much we can do that will vary greatly between separate individuals. But any betterment, even all the very best for the whole world, will not make heaven from that happening. This is a world the way it is from our fall and continuing wrong things being done from all of us. Heaven is perfect, and restoration for creation with the repentant of humanity redeemed through Christ sent from God is a provision from God's mercy and compassion. Redeemed in the restoration are made new with the matured commitment and they will not be ruining it then, God provides for it to always continue.

Ok, I was thinking it was more to the tune of less extremes on the negative side of the poles and greater on the other ongoing and ever increasing, but it's more of a personal ideal of how I think it should be, not necessarily the way it will be.

 

[FredVB]

We ought to be doing things for betterment. How much we can do that will vary greatly between separate individuals. But any betterment, even all the very best for the whole world, will not make heaven from that happening. This is a world the way it is from our fall and continuing wrong things being done from all of us. Heaven is perfect, and restoration for creation with the repentant of humanity redeemed through Christ sent from God is a provision from God's mercy and compassion. Redeemed in the restoration are made new with the matured commitment and they will not be ruining it then, God provides for it to always continue.

Ok, I was thinking it was more to the tune of less extremes on the negative side of the poles and greater on the other ongoing and ever increasing, but it's more of a personal ideal of how I think it should be, not necessarily the way it will be.

I am quite sure the way it should be is even what is better, the way that was modeled from the design in the beginning that is shown, but that as shown we are fallen from. I don't know what a Christian evolutionist understands of that. My understanding is a restoration from God is needed, which with God's grace would include the repentant redeemed from among those of humanity. I think other creatures of this creation will be there, while all live without any harm to any. That would mean all of us who are there, certainly. My understanding is that God's creation was perfect and without flaw to start with, and was in the form the restoration would come to, without any harm. But the perspective with evolution included would not have that, would it?

As far as what we can do, we can be of one of two kinds of people, one of those doing things to make this a better world, or doing things contributing to it worsening. We should carefully examine what we are doing, rather than casually assume from some things we do that we are doing what makes this a better world. It works if we are not canceling out the good we do with contributing to what worsens it. It could become better, while never reaching the perfection we want that only God would provide with the restoration. But any of that betterment will depend on constant careful examination of what we all are doing, diligently, and it will fail when people stop doing that, while it is needed from pretty much all people. Those of the people doing things that contribute to the world worsening are probably not going to all change, although there can be positive influence.