If Jesus Died...

[nPeace]

Jesus called it The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven. He lived, taught and preached it for 3+ years before being apprehended and killed for it.

What... The Gospel of Colt? Nah. Never heard of it.

 

[nPeace]

Jesus called it The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven. He lived, taught and preached it for 3+ years before being apprehended and killed for it.

...but yes. Jesus preached the Good News of the Kingdom. We agree on that.

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus was killed on the cross but returned in a new form. He would appear and vanish in locked rooms. That’s not human. Gabriel could appear at will and vanish, he’s not human. Jesus said he could return from death on his own which means he would never die.

oh, as I'm reading your post I'm trying to analyze it. So you believe that he was killed, right? (on the cross, you say)

 

[Colt]

oh, as I'm reading your post I'm trying to analyze it. So you believe that he was killed, right? (on the cross, you say)

Only the temporary mortal flesh that the Son of God lived in for 30+ years while on earth, died on the cross.

Had the Jews accepted the Gospel of Jesus then they would be preaching it today from the 2nd Temple and Jesus would have relinquished his body in a manner of his own choosing and returned to his place in heaven. Tragically the Gospel was rejected and the Son killed.

 

[YoursTrue]

...but yes. Jesus preached the Good News of the Kingdom. We agree on that.

Only the temporary mortal flesh that the Son of God lived in for 30+ years while on earth, died on the cross.

Had the Jews accepted the Gospel of Jesus then they would be preaching it today from the 2nd Temple and Jesus would have relinquished his body in a manner of his own choosing and returned to his place in heaven. Tragically the Gospel was rejected and the Son killed.

All right, I'd like to examine this just a little bit further, if you will. You're saying only his flesh died ... right? But he lived on perhaps as soon as his flesh died?

 

[YoursTrue]

Only the temporary mortal flesh that the Son of God lived in for 30+ years while on earth, died on the cross.

Had the Jews accepted the Gospel of Jesus then they would be preaching it today from the 2nd Temple and Jesus would have relinquished his body in a manner of his own choosing and returned to his place in heaven. Tragically the Gospel was rejected and the Son killed.

ok, I'm a bit confused by your answer here, Colt, so I'd like to stick to the first question about only his flesh died.

 

[Colt]

All right, I'd like to examine this just a little bit further, if you will. You're saying only his flesh died ... right? But he lived on perhaps as soon as his flesh died?

The person of the Son of God is from the eternal past, he came down from heaven and miraculously became the person of Mary’s child at conception. He lived the human life and voluntarily laid down his human life while (he) continued to live on. Three days after the death of Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God reappeared in a new form. The human body was no more.

 

[YoursTrue]

The person of the Son of God is from the eternal past, he came down from heaven and miraculously became the person of Mary’s child at conception. He lived the human life and voluntarily laid down his human life while (he) continued to live on. Three days after the death of Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God reappeared in a new form. The human body was no more.his

Here's what I see from the Bible: the son of God's life was transferred from heaven where he had been with his Father to Mary's womb. He was not an adult in the womb. I say this because some people think Jesus had an adult brain when he was an infant. He grew miraculously in a woman's womb except that his mother was a virgin when she conceived and the Father in heaven enabled the growth of his son by holy spirit.

 

[Colt]

Here's what I see from the Bible: the son of God's life was transferred from heaven where he had been with his Father to Mary's womb. He was not an adult in the womb. I say this because some people think Jesus had an adult brain when he was an infant. He grew miraculously in a woman's womb except that his mother was a virgin when she conceived and the Father in heaven enabled the growth of his son by holy spirit.

My understanding of such a miraculous individual is that the human Jesus slowly became aware of his preexistence and true identity.

 

[nPeace]

The person of the Son of God is from the eternal past, he came down from heaven and miraculously became the person of Mary’s child at conception. He lived the human life and voluntarily laid down his human life while (he) continued to live on. Three days after the death of Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God reappeared in a new form. The human body was no more.

I think I understand how you are seeing it.

Let me know if I understand correctly.
You believe Jesus had a body in heaven, which he shed, to come to earth and take on a human body, which he shed on the cross, and then he took on a new body - a spirit body, and returned to heaven again
In that way, he never died.
Did I get it?

Do you believe that same process applies to humans, where they are immortal spirits or souls, with a body, and when their body dies, they continue living, or existing?

My understanding of such a miraculous individual is that the human Jesus slowly became aware of his preexistence and true identity.

Why do you think Jesus lost his memory, when he moved from heaven to earth?

 

[nPeace]

Tragically the Gospel was rejected and the Son killed.

Why do you think that is tragic? Why do you think Jesus left his heavenly body to live in a human body?

 

[Colt]

I think I understand how you are seeing it.

Let me know if I understand correctly.
You believe Jesus had a body in heaven, which he shed, to come to earth and take on a human body, which he shed on the cross, and then he took on a new body - a spirit body, and returned to heaven again
In that way, he never died.
Did I get it?

Do you believe that same process applies to humans, where they are immortal spirits or souls, with a body, and when their body dies, they continue living, or existing?


Why do you think Jesus lost his memory, when he moved from heaven to earth?

As a divine spirit being in heaven, we can only speculate about what sort of bodily form the Son has. As a spirit personality he became the person of Mary's Baby and subject to the mortal mind limitations of an infant. As he grew in mind and body, he somehow became aware of who he was, both human and divine in one miraculous personality.

All personality comes from the Father but humans have a definite beginning in time on the material worlds. Humans don't preexist.

We have no way of understanding how the Creator of this world became a human infant without immediate memory or consciousness of his office, powers and authority.

 

[Colt]

Why do you think that is tragic? Why do you think Jesus left his heavenly body to live in a human body?

Because the Jews rejected their calling which was the entire point of Israel.

Jesus left his heavenly abode to live the human life that we are all called to live. As a result, he achieved "all power and authority in heaven and on earth."

After Jesus left a new gospel evolved which contains speculation about the purpose of the cross.

 

[nPeace]

As a divine spirit being in heaven, we can only speculate about what sort of bodily form the Son has. As a spirit personality he became the person of Mary's Baby and subject to the mortal mind limitations of an infant. As he grew in mind and body, he somehow became aware of who he was, both human and divine in one miraculous personality.

All personality comes from the Father but humans have a definite beginning in time on the material worlds. Humans don't preexist.

We have no way of understanding how the Creator of this world became a human infant without immediate memory or consciousness of his office, powers and authority.

Speculate? Why?
It is written... in the scriptures of the "Holy Bible".

Because the Jews rejected their calling which was the entire point of Israel.

Jesus left his heavenly abode to live the human life that we are all called to live. As a result, he achieved "all power and authority in heaven and on earth."

After Jesus left a new gospel evolved which contains speculation about the purpose of the cross.

Where is your Gospel taken from?
You have to admit Colt, if your source for all you say, is the four Gospels, you can't takes parts and dismiss parts.
Jesus stated the reason for his coming to earth.
(Matthew 20:28) . . .Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.

If your source isn't the Bible, then should you not reveal it?
If it's a secret Gospel, it can't be any good. Worst... if it's Colt's Gospel, aka Colt's ideas, that is definitely no use.
So, where are you getting this?

Is a spirit communicating with you?

 

[Colt]

Speculate? Why?
It is written... in the scriptures of the "Holy Bible".


Where is your Gospel taken from?
You have to admit Colt, if your source for all you say, is the four Gospels, you can't takes parts and dismiss parts.
Jesus stated the reason for his coming to earth.
(Matthew 20:28) . . .Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.

If your source isn't the Bible, then should you not reveal it?
If it's a secret Gospel, it can't be any good. Worst... if it's Colt's Gospel, aka Colt's ideas, that is definitely no use.
So, where are you getting this?

Is a spirit communicating with you?

Where does the scripture say what kind of body Jesus had in heaven before coming down to earth?

The original, pre-cross gospel is what the Jews rejected, it’s why they killed the promised deliverer, and its why Jerusalem was eventually destroyed.

 

[Dimi95]

Where does the scripture say what kind of body Jesus had in heaven before coming down to earth?

It does not say directly but here is where.

Isaiah 9:6
"For to us a child is born,to us a son is given,and the government will be on his shoulders.And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

The Father is the first person in the Trinity.

How can we still not understand what is to belive in one God?

If you read carefully 1 Corinthians 15 you will note heavenly and earthly positions in the teachings.
So:
Evarlasting Father - heavenly position
Son of Man - earthly position.
These are only positions given in the Godhead.

They are all the same essence,they are One.

Then we continue to Mark

Mark 3:28-29
"Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”

So there is no forgivness if we think that they have different Spirit.
They have the same person in both positions - Holy Spirit.
Is God the Everlasting Father - Yes
Is God the Son of Man - Yes
Is God the Holy Spirit - Yes

The passage in Mark is not reffered only to people who are not Christians , it also applies for us Christians.

There is a reason why we have to belive in the incarnation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Rival]

Not the way it usually works.
If I pay my son's debt, it is paid.
I can afford it, he can't but regardless the debt and the person that held the debt are satisfied.
He can do whatever he wants or do nothing. Ignore me and the debt completely.

But ok, where does it say in the Bible that we have to accept this payment for the payment to have been made.

But now you're indebted to the man who paid your debt.

There are many more soteriological models than penal substitution. It's not always formatted the same way.

 

[nPeace]

Where does the scripture say what kind of body Jesus had in heaven before coming down to earth?

Ah, good!. So it's the scriptures we are looking at.

(John 4:24) . . .God is a Spirit. . .

(Hebrews 1:3) . . .[Jesus] is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being. . .

(Hebrews 1:7) . . .Also, he says about the angels: “He makes his angels spirits. . .

(1 Corinthians 15:40) . . .there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort.

(1 Corinthians 15:44-49) 44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, what is spiritual is not first. What is physical is first, and afterward what is spiritual. 47 The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust; and like the heavenly one, so too are those who are heavenly. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we will bear also the image of the heavenly one.

The original, pre-cross gospel is what the Jews rejected, it’s why they killed the promised deliverer, and its why Jerusalem was eventually destroyed.

I think we agree on a lot of things.

 

[nPeace]

As a divine spirit being in heaven, we can only speculate about what sort of bodily form the Son has. As a spirit personality he became the person of Mary's Baby and subject to the mortal mind limitations of an infant. As he grew in mind and body, he somehow became aware of who he was, both human and divine in one miraculous personality.

All personality comes from the Father but humans have a definite beginning in time on the material worlds. Humans don't preexist.

We have no way of understanding how the Creator of this world became a human infant without immediate memory or consciousness of his office, powers and authority.

Now that we have established from the scriptures that Jesus had a spirit body, before coming to earth, we understand then that Jesus no longer had that spirit body, when God transfered Jesus' life into the womb of Mary.

Hence, Jesus life - with his personality, as you said, was in a new form. That of a human baby, allowed to grow, as a normal baby would, without a wealth of knowledge, and experience. Isn't God wonderful!
I mean, imagine this baby comes out, and doesn't cry, but instead wipes the tears from Mary's cheek.

So, Jesus was fully human. Not divine. Not God Man, as is taught by many religious movements today.
Is this an area we agree on as well.

 

[Colt]

Now that we have established from the scriptures that Jesus had a spirit body, before coming to earth, we understand then that Jesus no longer had that spirit body, when God transfered Jesus' life into the womb of Mary.

Hence, Jesus life - with his personality, as you said, was in a new form. That of a human baby, allowed to grow, as a normal baby would, without a wealth of knowledge, and experience. Isn't God wonderful!
I mean, imagine this baby comes out, and doesn't cry, but instead wipes the tears from Mary's cheek.

So, Jesus was fully human. Not divine. Not God Man, as is taught by many religious movements today.
Is this an area we agree on as well.

No, we don't understand that Jesus was no longer spirit in man, he was both human and divine in one miraculous person on earth. "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us."