If Jesus Died...

[BrightShadow]

1 John 2:2

For all of Man's sins, aren't we all then redeemed?
The payment made in full. Nothing else is being asked of us.

To say God asks anything else from us, isn't this denying the payment Jesus already made?

1000 years or so after Moses' departure - another man (Jesus) was sent by God to correct some misconceptions that were persisting among the Jews. Jesus was doing an excellent job until his immediate disciples messed it up for him! A rumor began to emerge regarding his possible divinity status. Instead of squashing that rumor - the immediate disciples of Jesus kind of entertained it. That was a sin on their part. Jesus was forced to go through the crucifixion to erase that particular sin. Jesus did not erase any other sins of his future followers. IMO
Jesus went through the crucifixion to prove he was not god or son of god! IMO

 

[Five Solas]

1000 years or so after Moses' departure - another man (Jesus) was sent by God to correct some misconceptions that were persisting among the Jews. Jesus was doing an excellent job until his immediate disciples messed it up for him! A rumor began to emerge regarding his possible divinity status. Instead of squashing that rumor - the immediate disciples of Jesus kind of entertained it. That was a sin on their part. Jesus was forced to go through the crucifixion to erase that particular sin. Jesus did not erase any other sins of his future followers. IMO
Jesus went through the crucifixion to prove he was not god or son of god! IMO

This is an opinion...

 

[paarsurrey]

He did not disappear. He is alive. He is in heaven and is sitting on the right-hand side of God.

The why did Jesus pray to G-d that he be saved, please. Right?

Regards

 

[Five Solas]

The why did Jesus pray to G-d that he be saved, please. Right?

Regards

Jesus is God. Just becoming a man was already a humiliation. His suffering was further humiliation.
The cup spoken of by Jesus is the suffering He was to endure.
Jesus is also fully man and this prayer highlights his human nature. He was scared of pain and death like any other human and struggled with the need to accept torture and shame that awaited Him. "Let this cup pass from me" is a display of Jesus' desire to avoid human suffering and pain.

However, he was born to suffer and die. It was all part of God's plan. There was no way out because For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:21)

 

[paarsurrey]

Jesus is God. Just becoming a man was already a humiliation. His suffering was further humiliation.
The cup spoken of by Jesus is the suffering He was to endure.
Jesus is also fully man and this prayer highlights his human nature. He was scared of pain and death like any other human and struggled with the need to accept torture and shame that awaited Him. "Let this cup pass from me" is a display of Jesus' desire to avoid human suffering and pain.

However, he was born to suffer and die. It was all part of God's plan. There was no way out because For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:21)

" (2 Corinthians 5:21)"

The above verse 2 Corinthians 5:21 is neither written by Jesus nor spoken by Jesus. It is neither colored red by the KJV Red Letter of the Protestantism people nor by the Douay Rheims of the Catholicism people, please. Right?

Regards

 

[Muffled]

So God cannot convince people of something without violence? He drove the nails and I don't believe it.

I believe people are denser than rocks and skeptics are worse.

 

[Muffled]

hardly overwhelming to none though, me-understands, please. Right?
Is one finished with reasonable arguments, please? If not, I am here to serve and respond, please. Right?

Regards

I believe for those for whom it is proven the proof is enough but for those of whom it is not proven the proof is summarily dismissed.

 

[Muffled]

1000 years or so after Moses' departure - another man (Jesus) was sent by God to correct some misconceptions that were persisting among the Jews. Jesus was doing an excellent job until his immediate disciples messed it up for him! A rumor began to emerge regarding his possible divinity status. Instead of squashing that rumor - the immediate disciples of Jesus kind of entertained it. That was a sin on their part. Jesus was forced to go through the crucifixion to erase that particular sin. Jesus did not erase any other sins of his future followers. IMO
Jesus went through the crucifixion to prove he was not god or son of god! IMO

I believe that nonsense is pure imagination.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I believe people are denser than rocks and skeptics are worse.

That does not answer my question. Does God have to use violence to make people understand?

 

[BrightShadow]

I believe that nonsense is pure imagination.

You believe God came down in human form and erased your sins but you are still here!
Makes sense to you?
Whatever floats you but just don't drown in sins. I don't believe anyone will have a free pass. Illogical!

 

[paarsurrey]

Jesus is God. Just becoming a man was already a humiliation. His suffering was further humiliation.
The cup spoken of by Jesus is the suffering He was to endure.
Jesus is also fully man and this prayer highlights his human nature. He was scared of pain and death like any other human and struggled with the need to accept torture and shame that awaited Him. "Let this cup pass from me" is a display of Jesus' desire to avoid human suffering and pain.

However, he was born to suffer and die. It was all part of God's plan. There was no way out because For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:21)

" Jesus is God "

Jesus was born a Jew and was a Jewish-Messiah, Jesus was never a Pauline-Hellenist-Christ, does one mean by one's expression " Jesus is God" like all Jews are? :
"I SAID: YOU ARE GODS" Psalms 82:6

Right?

Regards

PSALM 82:6
"

 

[Five Solas]

" Jesus is God "

Jesus was born a Jew and was a Jewish-Messiah, Jesus was never a Pauline-Hellenist-Christ, does one mean by one's expression " Jesus is God" like all Jews are? :
"I SAID: YOU ARE GODS" Psalms 82:6

Right?

Regards

PSALM 82:6
"

No, Jesus is God.

 

[Muffled]

That does not answer my question. Does God have to use violence to make people understand?

I believe His best method is parables. The one in John 3 about the spirit being like wind impressed me.

 

[Muffled]

You believe God came down in human form and erased your sins but you are still here!
Makes sense to you?
Whatever floats you but just don't drown in sins. I don't believe anyone will have a free pass. Illogical!

I believe thinking that it is a free pass is illogical.

I believe that is correct.

I believe it is quite logical.

I believe that is where the Lord and Savior part counts.

 

[Muffled]

" Jesus is God "

Jesus was born a Jew and was a Jewish-Messiah, Jesus was never a Pauline-Hellenist-Christ, does one mean by one's expression " Jesus is God" like all Jews are? :
"I SAID: YOU ARE GODS" Psalms 82:6

Right?

Regards

PSALM 82:6
"

I believe Ps 82:6 does not equate to "I and my father are one."

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: ↑
" Jesus is God "
Jesus was born a Jew and was a Jewish-Messiah, Jesus was never a Pauline-Hellenist-Christ, does one mean by one's expression " Jesus is God" like all Jews are? :
"I SAID: YOU ARE GODS" Psalms 82:6
Right?

No, Jesus is God.

But one could not give any reasonable argument in this connection. Right?

Regards
_________________
"During his lifetime, Jesus himself didn't call himself God and didn't consider himself God, and ... none of his disciples had any inkling at all that he was God. You do find Jesus calling himself God in the Gospel of John, or the last Gospel."
Apr 7, 2014
If Jesus Never Called Himself God, How Did He Become One?
https://www.npr.org › 2014/04/07 › if-jesus-never-called-...

 

[Five Solas]

paarsurrey said: ↑
" Jesus is God "
Jesus was born a Jew and was a Jewish-Messiah, Jesus was never a Pauline-Hellenist-Christ, does one mean by one's expression " Jesus is God" like all Jews are? :
"I SAID: YOU ARE GODS" Psalms 82:6
Right?

But one could not give any reasonable argument in this connection. Right?

Regards
_________________
"During his lifetime, Jesus himself didn't call himself God and didn't consider himself God, and ... none of his disciples had any inkling at all that he was God. You do find Jesus calling himself God in the Gospel of John, or the last Gospel."
Apr 7, 2014
If Jesus Never Called Himself God, How Did He Become One?
https://www.npr.org › 2014/04/07 › if-jesus-never-called-...

The biblical testimony is clear, Jesus is God...

 

[BrightShadow]

I believe thinking that it is a free pass is illogical.

How so? Isn't that the position of many Christians? Don't they believe all sins will be erased just by accepting Jesus? Don't they believe - Jesus died to erase their sins?


If you start from a wrong premise - you will end up with a wrong conclusion. I understand it makes no sense for a supposed god to go through crucifixion because a real god could have saved himself. So, when you start with the wrong premises that Jesus was god - you have to come with an explanation that makes sense and collaborates with that line of thinking. Hence "concept of atonement" (erasing sins for the believers) was introduced. IMO
The concept of atonement is a good deception because it allows some like you to continue to believe his divinity. Without the infusion of this concept -after the crucifixion - no one would have continued to believe Jesus was god. It was an ingenious idea but deceptive! IMO
I strongly believe this concept of atonement came from a source other than God!

As I said in my earlier post #241 - after the rumor started regarding his divinity status - Jesus' immediate disciples didn't squash it. Instead they entertained it - as a result Jesus found himself in a very tight predicament where the only way to convince people that he wasn't God or son of god - was to go through the crucifixion. Just think about it - Jesus was charged with blasphemy, claiming to be son of god and claiming to be messiah (king of Jews). If his divinity status was not entertained by his immediate disciples then there was a chance for him to come out alive. But when you are charged for claiming to be God or son of god - and asked to prove it by saving yourself then there isn't any other way left for you! If real creator had saved Jesus from that predicament and helped him walk out of there alive and continue his preaching then what would have that proved?
Hence I say - no current Christian's sins are erased by Jesus' crucifixion! No one (in my opinion) will have a free pass for just believing. If you commit a sin - you will have to face the consequences yourself.

 

[paarsurrey]

The biblical testimony is clear, Jesus is God...

That is one' blind faith, as one gave no reasonable argument.
Bible (NT) is nor written by Jesus not is dictated by Jesus. Right?
Have a good day.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I believe Ps 82:6 does not equate to "I and my father are one."

Then kindly give one's viewpoint supporting with reasonable argument/s please. Right?
Doesn't one hold that Jesus was a reasonable person, please? Right?
And if one cannot quote a reasonable argument from Jesus himself, then it reflects an accusation that Jesus was not a reasonable person, please. Right?

Regards