If masculinity can be "toxic"...

[Stevicus]

...then wouldn't femininity also have the potential to be "toxic" as well? I just recently heard the phrase "toxic masculinity", which I thought was rather odd.

So can both be "toxic", only masculinity, or is the notion that either could be "toxic" simply nonsense? Why or why not?

I think that you're correct in that both can be toxic, although part of the reason for viewing "toxic masculinity" differently is because of double standards.

For example, a woman can take on male occupations, male mannerisms, wear pants, and be tough - and they wouldn't be razzed or given a hard time by their female peers. But a man taking on female roles/mannerisms, openly shows emotional weakness, or otherwise appears "wimpy" will be seen as weak, or "just like a woman," which is a very demeaning insult to a man.

A young boy going through difficulties might be told to "be a man" or to "man up," whereas there's no real female equivalent to these phrases.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

...then wouldn't femininity also have the potential to be "toxic" as well? I just recently heard the phrase "toxic masculinity", which I thought was rather odd.

So can both be "toxic", only masculinity, or is the notion that either could be "toxic" simply nonsense? Why or why not?

Sure both can be toxic. Toxic masculinity is more overt, and more obviouly dangerous.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Can you provide me an example of women toxically using their own bodies against others?

Women can pressure one another to conform to certain standards, of both appearance and behavior. They apply this pressure differently to men, but they apply it nonetheless.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

What about femininity makes this possible?
Is this a hegemonic phenomena?

I'm not sure what you mean "hegemonic". But it's faiy standard ingroup/pecking order stuff. Ever seen Meangirls?

 

[Father Heathen]

I find it very interesting that the people who are dismissive or silent in discussions of toxic masculinity feel the need to make 12 posts when the concept of "toxic femininity" is brought up and try take away from the seriousness of toxic masculinity.

I personally haven't made any assertions one way or another regarding either "toxic masculinity" or "toxic femininity". I wasn't even familiar with the terms until recently, and only started the thread to get other's thoughts and opinions on the subject.

 

[Revoltingest]

There isn't any toxic femininity that is immediately as dangerous as that listed above.

Sounds like you don't know many divorced men.

 

[Father Heathen]

Oh No! The Lesbians!

**** off with your homophobia.

If I recall correctly, he himself is gay, which makes his political leanings pretty damned bizarre.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Just shows the pit of identity politics.

Gay homophobes, supposedly an impossibility.

I don't see way. Anecdotally the LGBTQ community is extremely factional. There's plenty of racism among racial minorities, why wouldn't there be homophobia among homosexuals? Not against their own, but against the wrong type of other homosexuals, or worse, NOT REAL homosexual.

It seems an inherent part of human nature. Take any group, and members within the group will form factions against one another, and then those factions will split, and then tye splinter groups will split, and so on.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Some good examples of Toxic Femininity are:

Male-directed anger and paranoia: Even when nothing is amiss, anything and everything is men's fault. Power's out? It's The Patriarchy. Stubbed your toe? Male designed shoes.Enjoy baseball? You're phallic-focused because you're subservient to men and should find your inner Goddess to be a true womyn.

Transference neurosis: Most commonly seen these days with Trump, this is blaming any shortcoming or lack of character on a male authority figure. The stereotypical "daddy didn't love me" where any male authority becomes a trigger for emotional blame-games.

Gender manipulation: Dressing certain ways, withholding sex or affection until demands are met, or even flirting with others to invoke jealousy and emotional dependency.

Female victimization: In any given conflict between a man and a woman, the woman is always assumed to be the victim, no matter what. (I've personally seen this)

The “superwoman” delusion: "You can do anything!" Even if you're unqualified and inexperienced. Because equality.

Female self-hatred: Just as "toxic masculinity" is pumped into young brains by the media and air-brushed muscular male models, women are affected by female models and advertisements. Arguments that it's due to the media being run by men fall short as there are many women in the media who run images and fashions, and becomes the aforementioned Transference neurosis and Male-directed anger and paranoia.

Avoidance of accountability: The social ability for women to dump any and all responsibility for their own actions. Pursuing the issue begets accusations ranging from "**** shaming" to "blaming the victim", etc. We've seen this one nearly and partially ruin quite a few male lives (particularly with false accusations of rape) because the female testimony is true until overwhelmingly proven false. It's even still debated whether women should be arrested and imprisoned for false accusations of rape.

Vicious competition with other women: A woman's worst enemy is other women.

Female martyr syndrome: Reference; Gloria Steinem, Madeleine Albright, Ashley Judd, Madonna, and most recently Cathy Griffin.

A lot of women who are quick to throw out "toxic masculinity" ought take a very long look in the mirror.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

If I recall correctly, he himself is gay, which makes his political leanings pretty damned bizarre.

Wow.

 

[Revoltingest]

What if I say that the feminist movement is toxic because it has been hijacked by lesbians and man-haters?

Of course, you wouldn't say that because you know the man-haters
are just a fringe element of broad (no pun intended) feminist groups.

 

[Revoltingest]

I know a fair share. Your point?

"Toxic femininity" can be pretty dangerous to guys going thru a divorce.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

...then wouldn't femininity also have the potential to be "toxic" as well? I just recently heard the phrase "toxic masculinity", which I thought was rather odd.

So can both be "toxic", only masculinity, or is the notion that either could be "toxic" simply nonsense? Why or why not?

Yes. Toxic femininity can be akin to the oppressed turning into the oppressor in extreme circumstances. But I think toxic masculinity relates to patriarchal systems that are unfair.

 

[Revoltingest]

Care to explain? Rather than just assert what you did in your initial post.

Guys I know have endured all sorts of false complaints to cops, theft of
property, denial of visitation, & impossibly high child support payments.
Angry exes pose much danger.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't see way. Anecdotally the LGBTQ community is extremely factional. There's plenty of racism among racial minorities, why wouldn't there be homophobia among homosexuals? .

I do believe some (and this is not generalizing) lesbians universalize their perception of reality, so they expect heterosexual women to be diffident and hostile towards men as much as they are.

That's why they invented the concept of "toxic masculinity"...which is something a heterosexual woman in a healthy relationship would not recognize.

The metoo movement (I approve of) is misused to back the "pig male rhetoric", ignoring that most men nowadays are more or less shy around women.

Btw Toxic femininity is another stereotype...even if I think that it's not a coincidence Trump chose European. Twice.

 

[Estro Felino]

Of course, you wouldn't say that because you know the man-haters are just a fringe element of broad (no pun intended) feminist groups.

U forget that I am a foreigner...so I seldom get puns.

 

[Revoltingest]

U forget that I am a foreigner...so I seldom get puns.

"Broad" is slang for "woman".

 

[Revoltingest]

What ties opportunistic lies to femininity?

It's a pattern of behavior associated with women,
just as what's called "toxic masculinity" is certain
patterns of behavior associated with men.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I do believe some (and this is not generalizing) lesbians universalize their perception of reality, so they expect heterosexual women to be diffident and hostile towards men as much as they are.

That's why they invented the concept of "toxic masculinity"...which is something a heterosexual woman in a healthy relationship would not recognize.

The metoo movement (I approve of) is misused to back the "pig male rhetoric", ignoring that most men nowadays are more or less shy around women.

Btw Toxic femininity is another stereotype...even if I think that it's not a coincidence Trump chose European. Twice.

Uhuh. Are you sure you wouldn't be happy over at /r/redpill? It's just over there...

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

No. That's not what toxic masculinity is. You're criticizing an academic concept without grasping it's actual meaning.

.

Seems to be a theme in this thread.