If masculinity can be "toxic"...

[Father Heathen]

...then wouldn't femininity also have the potential to be "toxic" as well? I just recently heard the phrase "toxic masculinity", which I thought was rather odd.

So can both be "toxic", only masculinity, or is the notion that either could be "toxic" simply nonsense? Why or why not?

 

[BSM1]

...then wouldn't femininity also have the potential to be "toxic" as well? I just recently heard the phrase "toxic masculinity", which I thought was rather odd.

So can both be "toxic", only masculinity, or is the notion that either could be "toxic" simply nonsense? Why or why not?

Perhaps we could use the phrase "botoxic femininity" (sorry, I couldn't resist).

 

[Revoltingest]

...then wouldn't femininity also have the potential to be "toxic" as well? I just recently heard the phrase "toxic masculinity", which I thought was rather odd.

So can both be "toxic", only masculinity, or is the notion that either could be "toxic" simply nonsense? Why or why not?

"Toxic masculinity" strikes me as being on the level of "feminazi", "mansplaining" & "woman driver".

 

[Estro Felino]

Interesting...in my country I hear we've become fagland so masculinity is something people would praise

 

[Estro Felino]

Connell argues that a salient feature of hegemonic masculinity is the use of "toxic" practices such as physical violence, which may serve to reinforce men's dominance over women in Western societies

Nice...because the rhetoric we hear in Europe is that men have lost their dominant role, and are not able to protect women any more

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I don't think a clear equivalent exists for femininity.

Probably because in today's society we're not "allowed" to analyze femininity without being seen as "sexist".

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't think a clear equivalent exists for femininity.

Connell is using stereotypes and conjectures that cannot be taken seriously.
What if I say that the feminist movement is toxic because it has been hijacked by lesbians and man-haters?

Isn't it the same thing?

 

[Father Heathen]

Here we go again

If there has already been a thread on this topic then I must have missed it. Link?

 

[oldbadger]

...then wouldn't femininity also have the potential to be "toxic" as well? I just recently heard the phrase "toxic masculinity", which I thought was rather odd.

So can both be "toxic", only masculinity, or is the notion that either could be "toxic" simply nonsense? Why or why not?

Hello Daddy!
You know it ain't blokes......... it's just that some Folks can be toxic. And some of them folks is females.

But it's all about fashions, really......... and just at this time, knocking females is TABOO!

But give it a decade or two........ let's wait until a balanced % of females are controlling our countries, and then we'll almost certainly be seeing that a % of females can be very very toxic as well.

But if a politician said anything like that., just now, thety'd be on a permanent fishing holiday within the week!

 

[oldbadger]

From wiki page on Hegemonic Masculinity:

Connell argues that a salient feature of hegemonic masculinity is the use of "toxic" practices such as physical violence, which may serve to reinforce men's dominance over women in Western societies.[3] Other scholars have used the term toxic masculinity to refer to stereotypically masculine gender roles that restrict the kinds of emotions allowable for boys and men to express, including social expectations that men seek to be dominant (the "alpha male") and limit their emotional range primarily to expressions of anger.[67]

I don't think a clear equivalent exists for femininity.

Don't hold your breath on that one!
Last week, as an elderly couple struggled its way across the High street, a big big monstrous ATV screeched to a halt in front of them, and it's powerful horns roared out the driver's irritation......... the couple froze in mid-road, and so the powerful horns roared out again in a 'BLAM-BLAM-BLAM' crescendo. The vehicle then carried out a chicane-like manoevre with its huge wheels screeching and tearing at the road surface.

Yep, it was an alpha-female in a suit.

 

[oldbadger]

The expectation that women need men for protection is a sexist notion to be tossed out.

Absolutely!
But our Police Forces still carry that idea firmly in mind.

About four years ago I complained (with evidence) to the Police that our female neighbours were stealing our post. (!! true) The Police made fun of me and sent me away. So my Missus went to the Police and made the same complaint, and the Police responded by issuing a warning-letter deterrent to the neighbours that same day.

 

[Orias]

From wiki page on Hegemonic Masculinity:

Connell argues that a salient feature of hegemonic masculinity is the use of "toxic" practices such as physical violence, which may serve to reinforce men's dominance over women in Western societies.[3] Other scholars have used the term toxic masculinity to refer to stereotypically masculine gender roles that restrict the kinds of emotions allowable for boys and men to express, including social expectations that men seek to be dominant (the "alpha male") and limit their emotional range primarily to expressions of anger.[67]

I don't think a clear equivalent exists for femininity.

Maybe a woman can't physically abuse her spouse but there are otheroways they can be dominate for example using sex and their own body in different ways. Since typically woman can't be directly confrontational they have to be deceptive.

 

[Debater Slayer]

...then wouldn't femininity also have the potential to be "toxic" as well? I just recently heard the phrase "toxic masculinity", which I thought was rather odd.

So can both be "toxic", only masculinity, or is the notion that either could be "toxic" simply nonsense? Why or why not?

As far as I can see, "toxic masculinity" refers to unreasonable social constructs regarding what constitutes being "masculine." By that definition, social constructs of femininity could be toxic as well, depending on their specific attributes.

An example of toxic masculinity would be the idea that men shouldn't cry, or that showing emotion makes one less "masculine." Another example is the idea that "real men" should try to be control freaks toward women.

I think an example of toxic femininity is the idea some people have that women who aren't "modest" should be shunned. Many women endorse this and other notions that, to my mind, constitute both toxic femininity and toxic masculinity. So the concept of harmful gender-specific attributes definitely isn't limited to subjective views of what constitutes masculinity, but in patriarchal societies—such as those of especially conservative countries—toxic masculinity is far more prevalent and authoritative than toxic femininity.

 

[Loviatar]

I definitely agree with the OP, I think both masculinity and femininity can be toxic.

Feminists talk a lot about the masculine variants of toxicity; the need to lash out to save face, constant fixation on social dominance, promiscuous score-keeping, etc. I agree with them that this is a problem, and people who misrepresent it as "lol you're saying being a man is toxic" seem willfully blind to what's being said.

Toxic femininity, it seems to me, would be more like manipulative "wounded deer" tactics, munchhausen's by proxy, drama queen behavior in fishing for attention/sympathy. These rely more on feminine social roles, and behavior linked more to high estrogen than high testosterone. And they're also clearly harmful.

 

[Estro Felino]

Feminists talk a lot about the masculine variants of toxicity; the need to lash out to save face, constant fixation on social dominance, promiscuous score-keeping, etc. I agree with them that this is a problem, and people who misrepresent it as "lol you're saying being a man is toxic" seem willfully blind to what's being said.
.

Well...with all due respect, I think that's generalizing.

 

[Father Heathen]

Well...with all due respect, I think that's generalizing.

...which is something you do all of the time.

 

[Estro Felino]

...which is something you do all of the time.

Bullying me and calling me names is something you do all of the time...but I forgive

 

[Father Heathen]

Bullying me and calling me names is something you do all of the time...but I forgive

What names have I called you, and could you link the posts in which I did?

 

[PureX]

...then wouldn't femininity also have the potential to be "toxic" as well? I just recently heard the phrase "toxic masculinity", which I thought was rather odd.

So can both be "toxic", only masculinity, or is the notion that either could be "toxic" simply nonsense? Why or why not?

You probably should have determined the context in which the phrase was being used so as to discern the intended meaning. Without that, I can only assume it was somehow referring to the male predisposition toward the use of violence as a means of resolving inter-personal conflicts. But without the context, that's just a wild guess.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I'm waiting for the children to rise up and claim back their freedom from the audacious adult conspiracy keeping them so oppressed all their lives. And no collusion by the females in their supposed oppression of course.

Peterson would no doubt be pointing to all other life at this point - but not I.