If Obamacare is so great why......

[Reverend Rick]

Health care is expensive. No way it should be automatic. Many people live their whole life without health care. Going to the doctor all the time is bull crap.

Taking all the med's they want to put you on is crazy too.

Man up, work 12 hours a day and die young and not be a burden on society. Pay your own way in life and quit expecing others to foot the bill.

8 hours a day is like a part time job to me.

 

[Magic Man]

I would like to see how many hours we had to work to buy a TV back then compaired to now.

Why? Is a TV a basic need? Just to throw it out there, in 1970 an average black and white TV was bout $90 and the median income was $7,500, making the TV about 1.2% of the median income. These days an equivalent TV would be about $250, and the median income $50,000, making the TV about .5% of the median income. But this is what I always bring up in response to the argument you and others make about how much "stuff" people have now that they didn't have back then. It's because it's much cheaper now. For the price of a TV back then, now you can get a TV and a computer, for instance.

The thing that urks me is, how can someone who was not even born yet tell us how things used to be?

The same way anyone can tell people about history: research and study. It's a much better measure of how things were than a faulty human memory that is prone to "golden age syndrome".

I don't believe people work as much now as we did back then either. I remember working lots of hours back in the day. The best thing about working so much was we did not have time to spend it all.

I'm sure you don't believe it, but that doesn't make it true. First off, there are a whole lot more households now with two working parents. Second, you're probably just seeing what you want to. A lot of people work a lot of hours. When I was in retail/customer service, there were a lot of people whose second job was with me. Now after getting out of it, I've known a lot of people, myself included, working a second job or third job. That's not to mention the people working a lot of hours at their primary job. Even aside from working in an actual work environment, people tend to work outside of their actual office a lot more now.

 

[Magic Man]

Health care is expensive. No way it should be automatic. Many people live their whole life without health care. Going to the doctor all the time is bull crap.

Taking all the med's they want to put you on is crazy too.

Where to start?

1) So many other countries manage to provide healthcare to all of their citizens without going broke. There's no reason we can't do it too.

2) With or without a different healthcare system, you're still helping pay for those who can't afford it. Who do you think pays for hospital bills for those without insurance?

3) Many people do not live their life without healthcare. Some do, but most need it at various times, especially later in life.

Man up, work 12 hours a day and die young and not be a burden on society. Pay your own way in life and quit expecing others to foot the bill.

8 hours a day is like a part time job to me.

What a wonderful vision of the world? Yeah, let's not try to change things for the better. Let's just keep people working a lot of hours and dying young. I'm glad you like working so much that 8 hours is like a part-time job. That's not everyone's view, and rightly so. Some of us actually like to spend time with our loved ones. But if you don't have people you love enough to want to spend time with them, then I understand liking to work a lot.

 

[tytlyf]

here's an easy one. % income vs gas prices over the decades

 

[Reverend Rick]

When I started driving, gas was 25 cents a gallon. Just to be fair though, cars back then got 12 miles to the gallon.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

This attitude is why unions fell apart. Just like freedom is not free, a union has no teeth if their membership is not willing to strike.

I'm going to give you young folks some advice. Don't borrow money and don't have kids till you sock away a bankroll first. When I was in the union we all started a savings plan to enable us to go without pay if we needed to strike. When we went to the bargaining table we negotiated from a position of strength.

You are right about one thing, as long as you live paycheck to paycheck you are no better than a slave.

Actually you are worse off. Back in the day a slave got housing, food, and clothing.

You had to give a slave enough to live or they would die. This was kinda a living wage.

If you work full time and cannot pay for food, clothing and shelter you are worse off than a slave.

Banks lend you money so you will live paycheck to paycheck and work for less than slaves made.

The people have the power but they will not stick together. Republicans understand this and vote in one block while Democrats are all over the place and getting them to stick together is akin to herding cats.

Good avice. Not always feasable but if the choice is there and reasonable it is good advice to save up money. Actually it is almost always better to invest money than save it. Saving is a great way to stay where you are but investments is how you get ahead. So to edit your advice is to "Put money away in sound investments".

The laws have changed since your hay day Rick. Right to work states have cripped the remaining unions and your right about people not being able to stick together anymore. However it is folly to think this only applies to democrats. (currently republicans are far more divided than democrats. I'm neither and think both parties should die but thats just me)

And you are right about having to work paycheck to paycheck. We are getting into a situation where wages are constantly dropping in proportion of the spending budget of companies and the wealth is not being distributed in a functional manner for a healthy economy. Its not from a humanitarian point of view that I argue against the wealth gap but actually from an economic view. It will self implode at the rate we are going.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Thank you, you just proved my point. If you can continue to live, you must be making a living wage.

You want people with low skills to have a living wage with all the trimmings. If we did this, were would be the incentive to better one's self?

2 things. Surviving and Living don't mean the same thing in the context we are using.
And secondly the overwhelming vast majority of people on food stamps and other government assistance are working. However to continue to not starve and meet the daily needs of people they rely on both the government and their "job". They will never get ahead and no government program ever gives them enough money to do anything with other than simply survive.

 

[Revoltingest]

How do you figure?

Progressivity of the income tax code means that with inflation, an economically
constant wage will require more dollars, which are taxed at a higher rate.

Those aren't the basics. The basics like houses and cars were cheaper relative to median income in past decades.

That is untrue in the poorer areas I referred to, where home prices have fallen,
eg, Detroit, where houses can be had for next to nothing (extreme fixer uppers).
But the basics I listed are just that. Dang near everyone (in the USA) has them.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Where to start?

1) So many other countries manage to provide healthcare to all of their citizens without going broke. There's no reason we can't do it too.

2) With or without a different healthcare system, you're still helping pay for those who can't afford it. Who do you think pays for hospital bills for those without insurance?

3) Many people do not live their life without healthcare. Some do, but most need it at various times, especially later in life.



What a wonderful vision of the world? Yeah, let's not try to change things for the better. Let's just keep people working a lot of hours and dying young. I'm glad you like working so much that 8 hours is like a part-time job. That's not everyone's view, and rightly so. Some of us actually like to spend time with our loved ones. But if you don't have people you love enough to want to spend time with them, then I understand liking to work a lot.

That is such a low blow, I worked like I did to provide them with a home in a good school district. I helped them with their homework, I prayed with them before bed. We always had Sundays together all day. I was always there for a game or play or award. Don't turn hard work into something ugly.

40 hours might pay the bills but it will never get you ahead.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Health care is expensive. No way it should be automatic. Many people live their whole life without health care. Going to the doctor all the time is bull crap.

Taking all the med's they want to put you on is crazy too.

Man up, work 12 hours a day and die young and not be a burden on society. Pay your own way in life and quit expecing others to foot the bill.

8 hours a day is like a part time job to me.

:clap

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

40 hours might pay the bills but it will never get you ahead.

This is what people fail to understand.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

40 hours might pay the bills but it will never get you ahead.

I agree hard work is very important. So I agree with you on that. But there is no reason that 40 hours a week can't pay your bills and get you ahead with the propper training and schooling. Also no matter how much you work you won't get ahead without investments. Investments is how real money is made.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I agree hard work is very important. So I agree with you on that. But there is no reason that 40 hours a week can't pay your bills and get you ahead with the propper training and schooling. Also no matter how much you work you won't get ahead without investments. Investments is how real money is made.

Yes, but you need 6 months and maybe even a years worth of bill money kept liquid first before you invest. You have to be able to afford to lose your money in investments first. Once you reach that level, it is much easier to sleep at night.

 

[Magic Man]

That is such a low blow, I worked like I did to provide them with a home in a good school district. I helped them with their homework, I prayed with them before bed. We always had Sundays together all day. I was always there for a game or play or award. Don't turn hard work into something ugly.

I'm happy for you, but my point still stands. With my kid, working 8 hours a day means only seeing him for about an hour and a half at night and on weekends. Working 12-hour days would mean not seeing him at all during the week. So, I'm glad you've found the little amount of time left after working 12-hour days to be enough to spend with your loved ones, but it's justifiably not enough for a lot of people, especially when you factor in some people's commute these days. A couple of my friends have a 1.5-hour commute one way, while a couple other have around 45-60 minute ones.

40 hours might pay the bills but it will never get you ahead.

Maybe, maybe not. 40 hours a week can indeed get you ahead. I've gotten ahead without working much more than that. I work an extra couple hours a week here and there, and have worked weekends in the past, but on average I still end up right around 40. As you've said in the past, getting ahead is about working smart, not necessarily working hard.

But we're not talking about people trying to move way up the ladder; just people trying to work hard and earn a decent living. Again, the jobs we're mostly talking about aren't about getting ahead, but they're still important jobs that have to be done by someone (and they're not "starter" jobs" either). Sometimes people like their jobs, and they're good at them. They're not worried about becoming a manager or owning their own business, etc. You shouldn't have to keep moving up just to get a livable wage. That should be an option for people who want extra.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

What a steaming pile of pig dung!

We had double digit inflation, double digit unemployment, and double digit home loans.

Not to mention we had a draft as well.

Your generation must hate money, you can't wait to give it away!

Then surly you can agree that how you had it then isn't all that different than how many have it today. I posted not that long ago the staggering income inequality in this country. This income inequality is not isolated to the working poor or the bottom "Middle Class". It affects many working 40+ hours a week. Incomes have remained flat.

 

[DallasApple]

Just make our $800 a MONTH premiums for 4 people go down.With a 5,000 deductable per person.Its LUDICROUS!

 

[Revoltingest]

Just make our $800 a MONTH premiums for 4 people go down.With a 5,000 deductable per person.Its LUDICROUS!

$800 isn't all that much. Why, in a year that would only be.......uh......criminy! That's a lot!
I had to take off both shoes to figger a number that large.

 

[DallasApple]

$800 isn't all that much. Why, in a year that would only be.......uh......criminy! That's a lot!
I had to take off both shoes to figger a number that large.

Yeah ...Like 10,000 a year ...NOT going to a doctor.Thats not based on our income either.Just how much it cost.Going to the doctor?Routine exams like physicals/pap smears /mamograms with blood work?Add a couple thousand.Doesn't matter if we make 20,000 a year ..or 150,000 a year.

 

[DallasApple]

I will just tell you..I am an American.And just in the past 12 months we have spent 16,000 $ on premiums (for insurance) and one possible appendicitis with our 16 yo.

 

[DallasApple]

25% at least of our income that year..for medical.NO THANK YOU!..Obama's plan is CHEAPER.