If Obamacare is so great why......

[Revoltingest]

Its kind of hard to "negotiate" before hand if its an accident.Or acute onset 'suspected' as (fill in the blank)/.Not to mention in that case refusing medical test(diagnostic) can be "called" AMA.Or(against medical advice) in which your insurance has the right to cover none of the bill.IOW if they decide to run a 15,000 scan on you refusing to let them?The entire visit is not covered by your insurance.
That has happened to me before with one of my children.An infant.I felt the test was intrusive under the circumtances.And the fact he had greatly improved since arrival.They threatened that if I didn't allow the test they would report AMA and I would have no insurance coverage for the visit.I told the pediatrician to go stick a cathader up her hole and suck on it...I won.

From what I've seen, you can negotiate more advantageously after the procedure. A customer who has a large tab & is short of funds means the hospital must settle for a fraction of the debt, usually with good payment terms. I know many who do this. It just isn't a widely known tactic.

 

[DallasApple]

From what I've seen, you can negotiate more advantageously after the procedure. A customer who has a large tab & is short of funds means the hospital must settle for a fraction of the debt, usually with good payment terms. I know many who do this. It just isn't a widely known tactic.

Yes its a tactic I know..doesn't(hasn't) worked for us.Yes "payment' plans but not reduction of bill.IOW you can pay this bill off in a payment plan over the next 3 to 5 years verses collections.

How about negotiating why it cost $25 for an ice PACK?????????Or $30 for a diaper????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[DallasApple]

Why did it cost 15,000 for one of my sons to be seen in the ER for what ended up being torn carteledge in his knee??????He was never even admitted .There for about 6 hours.He got an x-ray and some drugs???I was sent home and referred to follow up with a specialist ???(which I did and my son subseqently had surgery ..SEPARATE bill)

Why did it cost 45,000 (the bill) for my grandson to be treated for an asthma attack.He was admitted.For two days.He was treated with oral antibiotics and breathing treatments???Why would that cost $$$45,000 ????

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes its a tactic I know..doesn't(hasn't) worked for us.Yes "payment' plans but not reduction of bill.IOW you can pay this bill off in a payment plan over the next 3 to 5 years verses collections.

Oh, well....I never claimed my advice was good.

How about negotiating why it cost $25 for an ice PACK?????????Or $30 for a diaper????????????????????????????????????????????????????

This corruption of the market is beyond me to diagnose.

 

[DallasApple]

Why can I go to a pharm company and buy a high quality hyperdemic needle for about .25 and a bag of human grade fluids and the tubes for $6.00 from a VET..Total cost 6.25 ..but in a hospital for the same set up I get charged $200?????????????????????????

 

[DallasApple]

Its monetary RAPE! Sorry..When you are charged $10 for a band aide? $25 for a tylenol???The roll of toilet paper in your room if you are admitted is $40 of the cost of the room???

Its WRONG..people just want to talk about the cost of insurance? LOOK at what you are being charged for and what IF you need treatment..I'm not even counting the cost of the brilliant surgeon or the anethesiologist! (who hold your life in his hands)..I'm talking about why am I getting charged 475.00 just to lay in the bed for 6 hours.Why does it cost $500 just for an ambulance ride before you even get to the hospital?????

I had routine blood test (with insurance) just cholesterol /pap etc..$400.On top of $45 co-pay for the doctor..So it cost ON top of insurance..almost $500 for me to have an anual.She gave me an order for a mamo gram..I'm like are you crazy?????I can't afford that!

Just refill my anxiety pills..I'll pay the $25 co-pay on that and stop worrying about breast cancer or cervical cancer or having a heart attack!And save about a thousand $!

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Dallas keep them coming. This is what many in our society don't understand about the cost of healthcare. Now just imagine if you had to pay the total monthly cost for your premium, a co-pay and percentage of the overall bill.....but even with an employer paying for a large portion ofv your monthly premiun we woukd still end up in horribe crushing debt if faced with a surgery etc..... I have health insurance through my job and I have AFLAC for the just in case scenario. I think the ACA is a step in the right direction just like RomneyCare and other similar programs but they still fall short of Universal Healthcare.

 

[Magic Man]

This corruption of the market is beyond me to diagnose.

At least you didn't charge 100 frubals just to tell us that.

 

[Revoltingest]

At least you didn't charge 100 frubals just to tell us that.

You did agree to give me a foot rub though.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The problem is a shortage of medical practitioners. By requiring practitioners to attend expensive universities and expensive internships with hospitals. the government creates a shortage of practitioners. Then to balance this shortage it attempts to use further regulation. The idea is a moral one: to prevent quack medicine. The effect is: shortages and high prices.

 

[freethinker44]

The problem is a shortage of medical practitioners. By requiring practitioners to attend expensive universities and expensive internships with hospitals. the government creates a shortage of practitioners. Then to balance this shortage it attempts to use further regulation. The idea is a moral one: to prevent quack medicine. The effect is: shortages and high prices.

What about other countries with universal healthcare that require doctors to attend expensive universities and internships but have cheaper medical care? Are they using magic or some kind of sorcery, or what? How do they have a cheaper, more successful healthcare system compared to the US?

 

[Falvlun]

The problem is a shortage of medical practitioners. By requiring practitioners to attend expensive universities and expensive internships with hospitals. the government creates a shortage of practitioners. Then to balance this shortage it attempts to use further regulation. The idea is a moral one: to prevent quack medicine. The effect is: shortages and high prices.

Not really. The high prices are due primarily to the way our country pays for healthcare. Insurances negotiate prices individually behind-the-scenes with hospitals. Thus, the hospital charges different people different rates depending upon their insurance. This practice uncouples the actual cost of the product from how much is charged. Insurance also blinds people to the costs and/or makes it impossible for them to shop around, so that there effectively is no real competition or motivation to reduce costs.

Then there is the problem of the uninsured or unable to pay: by law, ERs have to treat these people, which is the humanitarian thing to do. But the hospitals still need to recoup their costs, so these are passed on to the people who can pay. That's how you get a $25 aspirin.

If anyone is interested in this discussion, here's a thread I made on the topic a couple months ago: The Cost of Medicine

 

[Brickjectivity]

Both of you have good points, which I would not disregard.

What about other countries with universal healthcare that require doctors to attend expensive universities and internships but have cheaper medical care?

If you could be more specific it would be helpful. Perhaps you are talking about Canada? You could mean dictatorships such as Cuba. We aren't like them. We have a system that depends upon open competition. Demand increases price, and availability decreases it. Government partial interference creates shortages and overages in the long run, no matter what market even healthcare. Our government has adopted a half-hearted way of regulating healthcare so neither supply nor demand nor government ultimately determines price. If the new Federal regulations are to be effective in lowering overall cost it will be through improving competition or else through completely removing competition.

Not really. The high prices are due primarily to the way our country pays for healthcare. Insurances negotiate prices individually behind-the-scenes with hospitals. Thus, the hospital charges different people different rates depending upon their insurance. This practice uncouples the actual cost of the product from how much is charged. Insurance also blinds people to the costs and/or makes it impossible for them to shop around, so that there effectively is no real competition or motivation to reduce costs.

You're right. The way that we finance health-care could be much better. I think that we should look for additional ways to increase competition -- you know brainstorm. Improving over-the-counter drugs and remedies are a partial solution. Perhaps another thing would be to permit experienced RN's to preside over more procedures without requiring a doctor or Physician's Assistant to be present. There could also be a stratification of medical liability allowing lower healthcare costs in exchange for lower liability.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The problem is a shortage of medical practitioners. By requiring practitioners to attend expensive universities and expensive internships with hospitals. the government creates a shortage of practitioners. Then to balance this shortage it attempts to use further regulation. The idea is a moral one: to prevent quack medicine. The effect is: shortages and high prices.

Wrong.....

I want the best 9f i have to go to the doctor or hospital. If that person can't be botheted to get the best education then they don't need to be a doctor. Healthcare isn't cheap abd we're already paying a lot for it so we deserve the best.

 

[Revoltingest]

Wrong.....

I want the best 9f i have to go to the doctor or hospital. If that person can't be botheted to get the best education then they don't need to be a doctor. Healthcare isn't cheap abd we're already paying a lot for it so we deserve the best.

I dunno about that. If the barriers to entry for docs were eased, it might cut the cost & provide more face time with docs. Quality can still be maintained, because brain power standards are not the only culling method for med students. The cost & hazing rituals also dissuade many qualified potential docs.

 

[DallasApple]

All I know is be prepared to be handed about a 3,000 bill (that if you don't pay will ruin your credit) if you slice your hand open by accident and need a few stitches.And have the nerve to go to a hospital to get that done. A broken arm?Pretty much plan on putting back retirement for at least 5 years.

 

[Brickjectivity]

All I know is be prepared to be handed about a 3,000 bill (that if you don't pay will ruin your credit) if you slice your hand open by accident and need a few stitches.And have the nerve to go to a hospital to get that done. A broken arm?Pretty much plan on putting back retirement for at least 5 years.

Have you ever considered self surgery ? Its the latest thing in health-care!

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

The problem is a shortage of medical practitioners. By requiring practitioners to attend expensive universities and expensive internships with hospitals. the government creates a shortage of practitioners.

God forbid we require the people in charge of life or death situations be properly educated ....

 

[DallasApple]

Have you ever considered self surgery ? Its the latest thing in health-care!

I actually have! Thanks for the link!Just the other day I was thinking about removing one of my teeth AND cutting out a cyst on my *** with a pair of scissors! (of course after I doused them in alcohol)!If I can figure that out ??Maybe I can graduate to self hysterectomy AND brain surgery on my hubby!

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Medical services are expensive because doctors understand the concept of business. You need a service, and they're qualified to give you that service. They understand that their talents are worth whatever the doctors say they are. Either meet their demands, or handle it yourself. If other workers took a page from their book, we wouldn't have so many complaints about earning a living wage.