If Obamacare is so great why......

[Shadow Wolf]

So are we just arguing semantics then, or what? If so I'm done.

I'm not arguing semantics, I was pointing out that this is not AHCA is not something that can be labeled Capitalist, because it isn't. To mandate the consumer to purchase something is the exact opposite of Capitalism.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Because it it lowers health care costs overall by making insurance affordable for more people.

I'm not so sure about that. Obama said this would cost just shy of a trillion dollars and now estimates are closer to 4 trillion.

You don't keep your doctor and if you have a really good plan already be prepaired to pay a 400% "tax".

The real sad part is, the people it was designed to help will most likely not purchase it and be fined so they spend money for nothing.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Somehow I think that if Obama's name wasn't attached to the ACA and it was born on the Right, the amount of resistance it would have received would have been vastly lower. The there's also the people in there who think the lazy, filthy "poor" people should just be stuck with medical bills that rival entire mortgages, be happy about it and shut up.

Like they ever pay a penny of it.

 

[Reverend Rick]

End all health care insurance and see what prices are then. It would be what the traffic would bear.

8K for a CT scan...... I don't think so. :no:

Doctors would have to list their prices for services before hand.

 

[freethinker44]

End all health care insurance and see what prices are then. It would be what the traffic would bear.

8K for a CT scan...... I don't think so. :no:

Doctors would have to list their prices for services before hand.

Is that what happened to other countries with socialized healthcare? You can throw out all the doom-and-gloom apocalypse scenarios all day, but in the end socialized healthcare has already been implemented before and none of those horrible predictions came true.

 

[Falvlun]

End all health care insurance and see what prices are then. It would be what the traffic would bear.

8K for a CT scan...... I don't think so. :no:

Doctors would have to list their prices for services before hand.

Yup. Healthcare insurance makes the whole healthcare billing completely wonky. Eliminate insurance and prices will likely be able to standardize and better reflect actual cost.

 

[Meow Mix]

guess you didn't read the posted links. Just regurgitating the left's propaganda.

Pot, I'd like you to meet kettle.

You can't seriously accuse someone of regurgitating propaganda along party lines when that's what 90%+ of your posts are doing for the right.

 

[Mister_T]

Like they ever pay a penny of it.

Even if we entertain your alleged accusation, not paying tens or hundreds of thousands in hospital bills will most certainly ruin your credit, as well as them being able to put liens on your property and garnish your wages if they feel nasty enough about it. Let's not pretend you don't know these things.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Even if we entertain your alleged accusation, not paying tens or hundreds of thousands in hospital bills will most certainly ruin your credit, as well as them being able to put liens on your property and garnish your wages if they feel nasty enough about it. Let's not pretend you don't know these things.

Credit is over rated. Liens do little if you stay in your home. People who get their wages garnished usually get another job. Yeah, I know these things, but the person got the needed health care for free.

Years later their credit gets mended, they buy another home. The big thing here is they did not die.

People get sick, people even die. Life has set backs, what don't kill you makes you stronger

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Credit is over rated. Liens do little if you stay in your home. People who get their wages garnished usually get another job. Yeah, I know these things, but the person got the needed health care for free.

Years later their credit gets mended, they buy another home. The big thing here is they did not die.

People get sick, people even die. Life has set backs, what don't kill you makes you stronger

What if someone looses their vehicle, their savings, their retirement? One medical emergency can mean loosing everything if it's life threatening, or a life of misery if it's not. Why should people go broke and loose everything for their health care when there is no logically valid reason it should happen? Our nation is just too rich for any excuse to fly.

 

[Reverend Rick]

What if someone looses their vehicle, their savings, their retirement? One medical emergency can mean loosing everything if it's life threatening, or a life of misery if it's not. Why should people go broke and loose everything for their health care when there is no logically valid reason it should happen? Our nation is just too rich for any excuse to fly.

Why do you feel entitled to other folks money just because they have more than you?

Why do people think they should never have a set back or everyone should be middle class? What are savings for after all? Medical bills can never touch your retirement or take your home away.

People can file bankruptcy and start fresh.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Why do you feel entitled to other folks money just because they have more than you?

Not exactly.

You see, the rich get richer, while the poor get poorer. This is evidenced by the ever increasing gap in earnings between those who labor, and those who control the means of labor.
You seem to think it is about wanting what the rich have, it isn't. It is about basic human rights. I could not care less about what a rich man has, as long as the poorest man in town has his basic needs met, including health care.



"Are there no prisons?" asked Scrooge. "Plenty of prisons," said the gentleman, laying down the pen again. "And the Union workhouses?" demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?" "They are. Still," returned the gentleman, "I wish I could say they were not." "The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?" said Scrooge. "Both very busy, sir." ":Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course," said Scrooge. "I'm very glad to hear it."

 

[Magic Man]

Why do you feel entitled to other folks money just because they have more than you?

Because this is a society. In society, there is a contract where people contribute to the general welfare of the whole society. As part of the middle class, I contribute what I can, and as part of the upper class, rich people should contribute what they can. Characterizing it as "feeling entitled to other folks' money just because they have more than you" is just plain wrong and silly, but you already know that.

Why do people think they should never have a set back or everyone should be middle class?

I haven't seen anyone say that. Sure, there will be set-backs. Losing everything because of extreme medical bills is not a set-back, though. A set-back is getting laid off and maybe having to take a worse job than you had before, for instance.

No one is saying everyone should be middle class, but the middle class is shrinking. The median household income is about $50,000. That means 50% of the households in America make less than that. You can get by on that with 2 people, and you could make it work for 3. But it's not middle class, and that means half of households are below middle class. Wanting people to not lose everything because of a medical emergency is not "thinking everyone should be middle class".

What are savings for after all? Medical bills can never touch your retirement or take your home away.

Savings are great, if you can afford them. When you're supporting 3 people on $50,000, you're not going to be able to have much in savings.

People can file bankruptcy and start fresh.

Sure, because it's that easy.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Not exactly.

You see, the rich get richer, while the poor get poorer. This is evidenced by the ever increasing gap in earnings between those who labor, and those who control the means of labor.
You seem to think it is about wanting what the rich have, it isn't. It is about basic human rights. I could not care less about what a rich man has, as long as the poorest man in town has his basic needs met, including health care.

This really is the difference between us. I believe medical care insurance is much too expensive to qualify as a basic need.

We could give everyone shelter and it would be less expensive. Of course no one should die because they cannot afford something. Medical care is a broad umbrella. Just because you have a minor rash does not mean you should be seen at no expense to you.

 

[tumbleweed41]

This really is the difference between us. I believe medical care insurance is much too expensive to qualify as a basic need.

We could give everyone shelter and it would be less expensive. Of course no one should die because they cannot afford something. Medical care is a broad umbrella. Just because you have a minor rash does not mean you should be seen at no expense to you.

And if that "minor rash" is a symptom of pemphigus vulgaris, Stevens-Johnson syndrome or toxic epidermal necrolysis?

 

[Reverend Rick]

And if that "minor rash" is a symptom of pemphigus vulgaris, Stevens-Johnson syndrome or toxic epidermal necrolysis?

Thats all greek to me. If the rash does not go away you might stop by urgent care on payday.

You do realise if there where no health care insurance, prices would be more competitive right?

 

[Brickjectivity]

They are mandating we buy policies. That's not socialist. That's the government using their powers to increase corporate wealth at the expense of the general public. If a capitalist and socialist set out to fix the healthcare problem in US, this would be the plan a capitalist would create.

** It is because of Adverse Selection brought on by dropping the pre-existing conditions restrictions. Now you can sign up for healthcare even if you have preexisting conditions.

ACA enforces a 90 maximum wait policy, which means you cannot be turned down for coverage regardless of preexisting conditions. The problem with that is people tend to wait until they need coverage to buy coverage. Young people for instance tend to wait until they are old to buy any coverage. (In Economics this is one of the two primary causes of market failure and it is termed 'Adverse selection' .) The only way to pay for all of the preexisting conditions and avoid Adverse Selection is to make everyone pay into the system.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Savings are great, if you can afford them. When you're supporting 3 people on $50,000, you're not going to be able to have much in savings.

It is way too expensive where you live Matt, three people could live like a king in Kentucky on 50K.

 

[Brickjectivity]

It is way too expensive where you live Matt, three people could live like a king in Kentucky on 50K.

Here in North Carolina you can rent a three bedroom apartment for 1500$/month. Groceries would cost you perhaps 400$/month. Gas is currently around 3.38/gallon. What with all of the Californians and New Yorkers moving here that will soon change of course.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Thats all greek to me. If the rash does not go away you might stop by urgent care on payday.

They are diseases that if not treated in a timely manor, can lead to death.

Hopefully payday comes before it's to late.