If Obamacare is so great why......

[Daemon Sophic]

If they could do that when I died, then they'd have already done it.
There is no loyalty to me.

Too much hassle. Killing you would create all sorts of paperwork.
But don't worry. Assuming your company has actual product that people demand (beyond your supply-side marketing//sales con-job, no doubt held up by your scintillating personality)....then when you are gone, they'll meet, choose a replacement (for less salary) and fill your office without missing a beat. :yes: :sorry1:

You severely underestimate the value that a quality executive brings to a company. I've seen this & the opposite. The good ones are worth a lot.

No. No I don't. A really good one can 'bubble' a company for a while....until....**!POP!**
But most just inefficiently suck up money that could be reinvested to R&D, distribution, or elsewhere. These are basic concepts that most anyone can handle.

Do you work in an executive capacity or have you started a company which you managed?

Yes. And as the intellectual making the product too.

That's just empty leftish posturing.
Demand without the Edisons, Westinghouses, etc, etc, is just unmet demand & inefficient economy

No. Its the most basic building block of capitalism.
Supply and Demand. Ring a bell?

BTW- Edison and Westinghouse were the intellectuals who created the new product and supplied the demand.

What have the top 10 VPs and CEOs at Blue Cross Blue Shield created recently that was in demand by the citizenry? I mean beyond motivational posters and new ways to "work smarter, not harder"? :sarcastic

 

[Revoltingest]

Too much hassle. Killing you would create all sorts of paperwork.
But don't worry. Assuming your company has actual product that people demand (beyond your supply-side marketing//sales con-job, no doubt held up by your scintillating personality)....then when you are gone, they'll meet, choose a replacement (for less salary) and fill your office without missing a beat. :yes: :sorry1:
No. No I don't. A really good one can 'bubble' a company for a while....until....**!POP!**
But most just inefficiently suck up money that cold be reinvested to R&D, distribution, or elsewhere. These are basic concepts that most anyone can handle.
Yes. And as the intellectual making the product too.
No. Its the most basic building block of capitalism.
Supply and Demand. Ring a bell?
BTW- Edison and Westinghouse were the intellectuals who created the new product and supplied the demand.
What have the top 10 VPs and CEOs at Blue Cross Blue Shield created recently that was in demand by the citizenry? I mean beyond motivational posters and new ways to "work smarter, not harder"? :sarcastic

We sure have different takes on what we've seen in our careers of hiring & firing workers while running businesses.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

We sure have different takes on what we've seen in our careers of hiring & firing workers while running businesses.

Agreed. But I would point out that most, if not all of those top 10 VPs and CEOs at BC/BS fully believe that their own existence in the company is absolutely essential, and that they are irreplaceable (in a heart-beat).
Such is human nature.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Young whipper snappers want to start at the top. They think they can work just a few years and have everything their parents have only newer and better.

From where I sit, I see strong backs and weak minds. These folks look above them and think their boss does nothing. A true professional makes what they do look easy.

People today don't want to work overtime or two jobs. They do just the bare minimum required.

People who go on and beyond succeed while the lazy, unskilled, uneducated cry about their lot in life.

The bottom line is, they don't want things enough to do whatever it takes to get it.

We did this generation a disservice coddling them and telling them they were special.

Look at your paycheck, that is exactly what your employer thinks you're worth.

Do you disagree? Do something about it. Demand to be treated fairly or walk.

If everyone did this, pay would be higher.

 

[Falvlun]

This generationism is so old hat. Every generation thinks they were better than the one that followed...

What is concrete fact, though, is that older generations had ready access to jobs that paid a living wage. Their wages correlated to the current cost of living. Their jobs did not require an expensive, time-consuming college degree, and surprisingly enough, they weren't all business owners, entrepreneurs, or high level management.

Another big component leading to the financial stability and success of these past generations was that housing cost much, much less than it currently does, meaning, they could invest in property sooner and take out smaller loans which could be paid off more quickly. This ability not only provided a place to live, but it was also a great future investment.

 

[Revoltingest]

Another big component leading to the financial stability and success of these past generations was that housing cost much, much less than it currently does, meaning, they could invest in property sooner and take out smaller loans which could be paid off more quickly. This ability not only provided a place to live, but it was also a great future investment.

Is this really true, after adjusting for inflation, & comparing same size houses?

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Is this really true, after adjusting for inflation, & comparing same size houses?

Yes. Source -->. Minimum Wage and What It Buys You: 1950s to Now


I also remember when I was in college, talking to grads from the 30s and 40s. They complained about having to pump gas or wait tables for the whole summer in order to pay for a year of college and college supplies. :faint: In the 80's I had harsh loans as an in state student.
Now I have to invest large sums of money 18 years in advance so my kids will be able to go. :cover:

Life really was easier back then. Yes Rick, it really was. The relative minimum wage was higher, food, housing, and education were lower. Taxes on the rich were much higher, and public support programs were stronger and better funded.

 

[Reverend Rick]

This generationism is so old hat. Every generation thinks they were better than the one that followed...

What is concrete fact, though, is that older generations had ready access to jobs that paid a living wage. Their wages correlated to the current cost of living. Their jobs did not require an expensive, time-consuming college degree, and surprisingly enough, they weren't all business owners, entrepreneurs, or high level management.

Son, we used to have a recession every 7 years back then and most folks lost what they gained every 7 years. Yes, there was good jobs, but you had to know someone to get hired and people with little seniority got laid off first. Unemployment lasted 26 weeks with no extensions.

Another big component leading to the financial stability and success of these past generations was that housing cost much, much less than it currently does, meaning, they could invest in property sooner and take out smaller loans which could be paid off more quickly. This ability not only provided a place to live, but it was also a great future investment.

LOL, you had to have 20% down back then and interest rates where double digit. Those cheap houses needed new roofs, water heaters, air conditioning, (if you even had it). Yes, we made a killing when we sold, but it was not a cake walk. The way I see it, recently credit was cheap and easy but prices were high. Back then prices were good, but requirements were tough and interest was draconian.

And another thing, every time we went to the grocery and I mean each week, things where more and more expensive. How do you have a budget when each week things cost more and more?

We made it because we did not have cable, internet and cell phone bills in addition to all the other bills we paid. We were not fashion conscience like you all either, we were hippies who wore ragged clothes and did not have big screens and nice furniture.

Hell, when I got married, I did not have any furniture except a water bed. Lawn chairs and an empty case of beer with a dish towel for a lamp table.

When we left home, we were on our own too. No Mommy and Daddy to help. If your car broke down, you walked until you fixed the damn thing yourself and you had to wait till payday to get the parts from a junk yard.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I remember working alot of overtime and credit cards where for rich kids.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Is this really true, after adjusting for inflation, & comparing same size houses?

No crap, young people want big nice houses. My first home was little and a dump. I was glad to get it.

Back then we had the draft. Cars where crap and broke down all the time, even the new ones because everyone got high and drunk at the factories.

Not only did I raise a family, I worked overtime AND went to college in my spare time.

We did not have "quality time".

Oh yeah, I battled cancer, chemo, radiation, operations.....and got my paycheck hit on for being behind on the doctor bills.....

No worry, just work a second job.

 

[Falvlun]

No crap, young people want big nice houses. My first home was little and a dump. I was glad to get it.

You say this a lot. But it really baffles me. I have never heard or seen people in my generation pooh pooh small, rundown houses and proclaim that they will only settle for a big nice house. Really not sure where you are getting this. I suspect most people in my generation would be overjoyed to be a homeowner of any sort. This is true of all my friends who own homes. They've all bought super crappy houses, and they are proud as punch, because it's theirs and they can fix it up.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

You say this a lot. But it really baffles me. I have never heard or seen people in my generation pooh pooh small, rundown houses and proclaim that they will only settle for a big nice house. Really not sure where you are getting this. I suspect most people in my generation would be overjoyed to be a homeowner of any sort. This is true of all my friends who own homes. They've all bought super crappy houses, and they are proud as punch, because it's theirs and they can fix it up.

This is also true in my circle of friends. Most young people starting out tend to roommate, share an apartment or share a house. Many of the "young" people I know that want a home to own usually are starting off with a small family (i.e. Girlfriend/wife and one or two kids). My wife had two kids when I met her and I had one. We bought a decent townhouse and as the family got bigger we traded up to a single family home. Now my kids are grown. Two have their own apartments and I have one at home (not for long if he knows what's good for him...LOL)...so RR notion that "young people want big houses"...seems to be a gross generalization or simply one of his talking points.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Young whipper snappers want to start at the top. They think they can work just a few years and have everything their parents have only newer and better.

From where I sit, I see strong backs and weak minds. These folks look above them and think their boss does nothing. A true professional makes what they do look easy.

People today don't want to work overtime or two jobs. They do just the bare minimum required.

People who go on and beyond succeed while the lazy, unskilled, uneducated cry about their lot in life.

The bottom line is, they don't want things enough to do whatever it takes to get it.

We did this generation a disservice coddling them and telling them they were special.

Look at your paycheck, that is exactly what your employer thinks you're worth.

Do you disagree? Do something about it. Demand to be treated fairly or walk.

If everyone did this, pay would be higher.

:yes: Exactly! All it takes to get ahead is the ambition necessary to achieve your goals. You can blame racism, discrimination, and low wages for menial jobs, but in the end it comes down to how hard you're willing to work to get what you want.

 

[Magic Man]

Young whipper snappers want to start at the top. They think they can work just a few years and have everything their parents have only newer and better.

If you mean good jobs that pay a livable wage and actual job security, then yes, those crazy whipper snappers want that. I mean, the nerve to want real jobs that don't pay the poverty level and where they'll just get laid off at the first chance!

If you mean anything else, you might try getting a dose of real young people.

From where I sit, I see strong backs and weak minds. These folks look above them and think their boss does nothing. A true professional makes what they do look easy.

People today don't want to work overtime or two jobs. They do just the bare minimum required.

People who go on and beyond succeed while the lazy, unskilled, uneducated cry about their lot in life.

The bottom line is, they don't want things enough to do whatever it takes to get it.

We did this generation a disservice coddling them and telling them they were special.

Look at your paycheck, that is exactly what your employer thinks you're worth.

Ah, a classic Rick rant, all the trimmings included. I know this isn't going to do anything for you, Rick, but this needs to be corrected. You're way overgeneralizing. Sure, there are young people who want something for nothing. There always have been those people. There are old people just like that. The fact is younger generations are no worse in this way than older ones. While it makes things easier to grasp and it makes you feel better about yourself, there is no great decline in work ethic of values of younger generations. It's a myth that goes along with the "good old days" myth.

Decades from now there will be guys like you complaining about the latest generations and how they don't stack up to theirs (as in the current young generation). Your parents (not necessarily yours specifically) complained the same way. That's because it's based on an extremely subjective view of things that leaves out a whole lot of details.

Do you disagree? Do something about it. Demand to be treated fairly or walk.

If everyone did this, pay would be higher.

Which is where unions come in, but, wait, I thought unions were bad...

 

[Magic Man]

Son, we used to have a recession every 7 years back then and most folks lost what they gained every 7 years.

Yeah, that didn't actually happen.

Yes, there was good jobs, but you had to know someone to get hired and people with little seniority got laid off first.

Yes and no. That's still the case today, but we're not talking about just "good jobs". There were a lot more jobs that paid livable wages back then. You didn't have to have a "good job" to not be poor, which is the way it should be.

Unemployment lasted 26 weeks with no extensions.

You mean, when there were enough jobs that paid livable wages? Yeah, that makes sense. It makes less sense when there aren't enough jobs that pay livable wages and you're in a near-depression.

LOL, you had to have 20% down back then and interest rates where double digit. Those cheap houses needed new roofs, water heaters, air conditioning, (if you even had it). Yes, we made a killing when we sold, but it was not a cake walk. The way I see it, recently credit was cheap and easy but prices were high. Back then prices were good, but requirements were tough and interest was draconian.

The only legitimate point here is interest rates. They're only so low now because they have to be for people to afford houses. The rest is irrelevant. The 20% down was a lot easier when most people were making livable wages. The cheap houses needing repairs hasn't changed. When we bought our house, we needed a new water heater and roof. Our friends had to install A/C in theirs.

And another thing, every time we went to the grocery and I mean each week, things where more and more expensive. How do you have a budget when each week things cost more and more?

Are you saying this isn't still the case?

We made it because we did not have cable, internet and cell phone bills in addition to all the other bills we paid. We were not fashion conscience like you all either, we were hippies who wore ragged clothes and did not have big screens and nice furniture.

Yes, you still constantly bring this up as if it reflects reality. Cable, internet and cell phone bills don't add up to much. They don't make or break someone. Cell phones and internet access are almost necessities now, considering how communication has changed. Also, "fashion conscious"? Really? You keep making stuff up to add in to make it sound better, but it doesn't work. Younger generations are no more fashion conscious than previous generations. There are still hippies in ragged clothes and those who just wear decent cheap clothes. Furniture hasn't gotten any better either.

Hell, when I got married, I did not have any furniture except a water bed. Lawn chairs and an empty case of beer with a dish towel for a lamp table.

Good for you. Were you late-twenties, and had you been in the full-time workforce for 7-10 years?

When we left home, we were on our own too. No Mommy and Daddy to help. If your car broke down, you walked until you fixed the damn thing yourself and you had to wait till payday to get the parts from a junk yard.

Again, this may have been your experience, just as it's some people's experience these days, but this doesn't represent a wholesale change. Most people's parents helped out where they could 40+ years ago, just like they do today.

 

[Magic Man]

No crap, young people want big nice houses. My first home was little and a dump. I was glad to get it.

This is false. Most young people who buy houses either save up a long time and get something nice, live in an apartment, or save up normally and get a "little dump". Our house isn't a dump, but it's not a big, nice house.

Back then we had the draft. Cars where crap and broke down all the time, even the new ones because everyone got high and drunk at the factories.

Not only did I raise a family, I worked overtime AND went to college in my spare time.

We did not have "quality time".

Oh yeah, I battled cancer, chemo, radiation, operations.....and got my paycheck hit on for being behind on the doctor bills.....

No worry, just work a second job.

Did you also walk 15 miles to school every day uphill both ways in 3 feet of snow?

 

[Magic Man]

This is also true in my circle of friends. Most young people starting out tend to roommate, share an apartment or share a house. Many of the "young" people I know that want a home to own usually are starting off with a small family (i.e. Girlfriend/wife and one or two kids). My wife had two kids when I met her and I had one. We bought a decent townhouse and as the family got bigger we traded up to a single family home. Now my kids are grown. Two have their own apartments and I have one at home (not for long if he knows what's good for him...LOL)...so RR notion that "young people want big houses"...seems to be a gross generalization or simply one of his talking points.

Yup. We have a single family home that we bought to start out family. It's not big or nice. Out of my whole group (10-12 households), only one family has a big, nice house. Two families of four have townhouses.

It's nothing more than a talking point, just like the rest of the "In my day, we walked 15 miles uphill to school both ways every day in 3 feet of snow with no shoes or socks or even a jacket" golden age nonsense.

 

[Magic Man]

:yes: Exactly! All it takes to get ahead is the ambition necessary to achieve your goals. You can blame racism, discrimination, and low wages for menial jobs, but in the end it comes down to how hard you're willing to work to get what you want.

It would be so nice if this was true. It would also be so nice if I was able to convince myself of a comforting falsity like this. Oh well.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

It would be so nice if this was true. It would also be so nice if I was able to convince myself of a comforting falsity like this. Oh well.

There's nothing the individual can do differently; certain people are just doomed to a life of poverty because The Man is out to keep them down, so the tax dollars of those privileged enough to be able to work for their money should go towards supporting these people who just sadly had no choice in the matter... What a realistic belief...

 

[Magic Man]

There's nothing the individual can do differently; certain people are just doomed to a life of poverty because The Man is out to keep them down, so the tax dollars of those privileged enough to be able to work for their money should go towards supporting these people who just sadly had no choice in the matter... What a realistic belief...

Man, you're just shooting down those strawmen! Look at you go! Don't let me stop you; keep going! Any other arguments no one has made that you want to shoot down as unrealistic?