ElishaElijah
Return
A Jew that receives Jesus Christ as their Messiah and is born again doesn’t stop being a Jew.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
If Science were a woman, would it be smart one?
- Thread starter questfortruth
- Start date
ElishaElijah
Return
That’s not correct, I’m immune from the effect of sin and the penalty. I’m going in a different direction and pursuing God, that’s a lot different than avoiding sin. Don’t have the appetite or lust for sin anymore. Sin has lost its grip and I have hunger and thirst for God now.
Same error as before ─ using the NT to "interpret" (retrofit) the Tanakh.
Of course he or she does. For a start, Jews don't believe you need a mediator between God and man, and the God of the Jews is not triune. (The ruach, "breath", of the Jewish god is not a separate "person" but a manifestation of God. And the Jewish God's son, David (Psalm2:7, as we saw) has a status not unlike a saint, but that's all.
ElishaElijah
Return
Really? Why the priesthood? Why the temple? Why the sacrifices? Who was the High Priest? What was his role?
ElishaElijah
Return
Error is yours because the NT is a revealing and fulfillment of the Old Testament. Jesus Christ is the Messiah, He fulfilled the Old Testament prophecies and the Law. The Jews that received Him were the poor, fisherman, some of the religious leaders yet was rejected by the ruling class of Jews because they were jealous loved their power and social status.
Those are leaders of ritual and offering. The High Priest was the head of the Jewish religious organization. You could learn from them, and take part in community rituals led by them.
None of them was necessary for you to pray to God.
Whereas John's Jesus says no one gets to the Father but through him ─ a totally different concept.
As I've already pointed out, Jesus nohow qualifies as a Jewish messiah. The idea that he does is a Christian notion. Equally Jesus is not mentioned in the Tanakh. That's also a Christian notion.
And the idea that Jesus, whose Christianity is responsible for two millennia of often murderous antisemitism, fulfills any OT prophecy or the Law is ludicrous. The son of the Jewish God being the chief instigator of the persecution of the Jews? Gimme a break!
ElishaElijah
Return
It’s who God the Father said Jesus is, High Priest in the order of Melchizedek, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Almighty God, The Passover Lamb, The First Fruits from the dead, The Son of God, Son of Man, Second Adam, Autor of Life, Image and Exact representation of God The Father, The Word made flesh.
“For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”
Isaiah 9:6-7 NKJV
The Lion of the tribe of Judah, King of David’s lineage.
Not sure how you can say this is antisemitic, far from it.
If a person rejects Jesus Christ who already came they will follow the antichrist believing he is the Messiah but will prove to be a fraud.
ElishaElijah
Return
You believe Jesus was talking about prayer here?
““Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. And where I go you know, and the way you know.” Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?” Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”
John 14:1-6 NKJV
It was the Christian God who said that. The Jewish God never said anything remotely resembling it.
"God" in that context, as you know from Solomon being called God in Psalm 45:7, is an honorific. Jesus has never had any "government" on his shoulder, and as I keep pointing out to you, he's not a prince of peace, he's the instrument of two thousand years of antisemitism. No doubt you've come across the hypothesis that this Isaiah passage is written for the accession of a Judean king, perhaps Hezekiah.
Now you're confusing yourself ─ Isaiah is part of the Tanakh, and nowhere does the Tanakh refer to Jesus.
That, if I may respectfully observe, is both silly and cheap. Very plainly Hindus, Buddhists, Confucianists, atheists (and so on), do NOT "follow the antichrist believing he is the Messiah" ─ no need to consider here whether some Republicans might qualify.
John 14:6 puts Jesus between man and God, as I pointed out. To pray to the Jewish God, you don't need an intermediary ─ you address [him] directly. (The idea of putting Jesus between man and the Father is also incompatible with the Trinity doctrine.)
Last edited:
ElishaElijah
Return
We worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
and He did which I’ve shown you according to the Scriptures. That’s why we celebrate the Feasts of the Lord and no the pagan counterfeits. Jesus Christ fulfilled these Feasts.
ElishaElijah
Return
I just showed you the Scriptures, here is another example:
“So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written: “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed; To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.” Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.””
Luke 4:16-21 NKJV
ElishaElijah
Return
John 14:6 isn’t about prayer, it’s about how to get in a right relationship with God. As it is the wrath of God rests on everyone until their sins are forgiven.
“For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides”
John 3:34-36 NKJV
““Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. And where I go you know, and the way you know.” Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?” Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”
John 14:1-6 NKJV
No you don't. You worship the Triune Christian God who can only be accessed via Jesus.
The Jewish God is the God of the covenant of circumcision, is not triune and may be addressed directly.
As I said, don't quote the NT when you're talking about the God of the Tanakh. The NT is for the Christian God. As I keep pointing out, they're completely distinct, no matter what the NT says.
ElishaElijah
Return
That’s not what they said:
“Now all the people witnessed the thunderings, the lightning flashes, the sound of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood afar off. Then they said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die.””
Exodus 20:18-19 NKJV
This is what Jesus taught on prayer:
““And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors. And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
Matthew 6:5-15 NKJV
You’re confusing prayer with entering into the presence of God in the Holy of Holies, The Most Holy Place behind the Veil. I have access there now because of My High Priest Jesus. You don’t, but you could.
Since you don't appear to understand anything I've said, I've leave you to it.
Go well.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
Science may be a smart lady, but I would argue that whatever it is quest is carrying on about is, to carry on with the dopey metaphors, a homely, brain-damaged, disease-riddled man.