If Science were a woman, would it be smart one?

[SigurdReginson]

I wasn't a believer before, but now, now count me in.

Much prostrate. Very worship.

Wow.

 

[ElishaElijah]

No other way for humans to be saved? Hypothetically, isn't it God's choice to do whatever He wants with humans? If He wants to save humans, then He can save them. If He wants humans condemned for all eternity, then I guess He can do that, too. Or, He could judge humans individually and not base it on what their allegedly rebellious ancestors might have done (if they were even rebellious at all).

If God changed His mind and decided not to send Jesus down to be crucified, are you saying that God would not be capable of saving humans? Did Jesus' sacrifice give God some supernatural power that He did not previously have?

None of the above. God doesn’t want anyone to be condemned to hell, that’s for Satan and rebellious angels. He wants all people to repent and receive Eternal Life through Jesus Christ.

 

[ElishaElijah]

When did the Chinese, the people of India, the natives of the Americas, Africa, Australia, rebel against God?

They didn't. They couldn't. They'd never heard of [him]. So I respectfully suggest that won't work.

On top of that, there is no rebellion in the Garden story in Genesis. The word sin never appears. Nor do original sin, the fall of man, death entering the world, spiritual death, the need for a redeemer ─ not one of them gets the slightest mention.
As I said, that's not in the Garden story ─ in that story, humans were always going to die (see Genesis 3:22-23),
Saved from what, exactly? They went on suffering, being virtuous, being sinful, succeeding in life, failing in life, dying of poverty, disease, famine, just as before ─ please correct me if that's wrong.

Saved from eternity apart from God. Human beings are dead in trespasses and sins walking according to course of this world according to the prince and power of the air, the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience. When you are born again you’re made alive spiritually and can communicate with God through the Holy Spirit who will live in you.

 

[Stevicus]

None of the above. God doesn’t want anyone to be condemned to hell, that’s for Satan and rebellious angels. He wants all people to repent and receive Eternal Life through Jesus Christ.

Even setting aside the question of whether God even exists at all, how can any human being speak with reliable authority on what God actually wants?

 

[blü 2]

Saved from eternity apart from God.

You forgot to tell me when the Indians, Chinese, peoples of the Americas, Africa, Australia, the islands, rebelled against God.

Human beings are dead in trespasses and sins walking according to course of this world according to the prince and power of the air, the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience.

That's one point of view, but not mine.

When you are born again you’re made alive spiritually

I still have no idea why Jesus ─ or anyone else ─ had to die to bring that result about. Had I been the omnipotent benevolent God on the job, nothing of the kind would have been needed.

and can communicate with God through the Holy Spirit who will live in you.

That appears to refer to an emotional state ─ not that I have any objection to pleasant emotional states, but they're of limited use ─ and never to a condition in which information about reality can be communicated eg I'm going to tell you the cure for rheumatoid arthritis so write this down very carefully and make sure it gets published; or, Don't catch the 2.15 train ─ and tell everyone it's going to derail. Or, Buy Bitcoin on the 14th of the month and make sure you sell ALL of it on the 30th.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That appears to refer to an emotional state

Anything but emotional, it was easy to live and be driven by emotions and lust before I met Jesus Christ.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I still have no idea why Jesus ─ or anyone else ─ had to die to bring that result about. Had I been the omnipotent benevolent God on the job, nothing of the kind would have been needed.

People are fickle and if God made everyone to robots and no free will, we would accuse Him of being controlling and oppressive. He gives us freedom to make our own choices and we still blame him. You and I know what’s right and we still make bad decisions.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You forgot to tell me when the Indians, Chinese, peoples of the Americas, Africa, Australia, the islands, rebelled against God.

Not sure when but the Gospel has gone out to all the nations and people, they will be represented in Heaven. What about you though?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Even setting aside the question of whether God even exists at all, how can any human being speak with reliable authority on what God actually wants?

He gave us His Word, He showed up and demonstrated and taught us how to live and get right with Him. He made everything clear.

 

[blü 2]

People are fickle and if God made everyone to robots and no free will, we would accuse Him of being controlling and oppressive. He gives us freedom to make our own choices and we still blame him. You and I know what’s right and we still make bad decisions.

Who should we blame when a plane crashes and kills one or two hundred people?

Who should we blame for hurricanes, tsunamis, lightning strike, hail damage, cot death?

On top of which, our will is not ultimately free, but the product of our brain's evolved decision-making processes, shaped by our upbringing, culture, education and experience. If there's a God, then [he] knows our failings as well as our strengths, and unlike us [he]'s always known them.

So neither in science nor in theology is there genuinely free will. Things are either caused or they're random, no third way.

 

[blü 2]

Not sure when but the Gospel has gone out to all the nations and people, they will be represented in Heaven.

You said there was a revolt, a rejection of God, which justifies God's methods. But that argument fails, it seems you acknowledge, once we talk outside of the near east and southern Europe. What if those other nations are happy in their own heavens? What if their gods serve them as well as yours serves you?

What about you though?

Me? I try to treat other people with decency and respect and inclusion and when I die, like everyone else who's died I'll be dead.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Who should we blame when a plane crashes and kills one or two hundred people?

Who should we blame for hurricanes, tsunamis, lightning strike, hail damage, cot death?

On top of which, our will is not ultimately free, but the product of our brain's evolved decision-making processes, shaped by our upbringing, culture, education and experience. If there's a God, then [he] knows our failings as well as our strengths, and unlike us [he]'s always known them.

So neither in science nor in theology is there genuinely free will. Things are either caused or they're random, no third way.

We were deceived by Satan, but notice how no one blames that guy or themselves.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You said there was a revolt, a rejection of God, which justifies God's methods. But that argument fails, it seems you acknowledge, once we talk outside of the near east and southern Europe. What if those other nations are happy in their own heavens? What if their gods serve them as well as yours serves you?
Me? I try to treat other people with decency and respect and inclusion and when I die, like everyone else who's died I'll be dead.

There was rebellion in the Garden and sin was passed to all human beings, rebellion is in us from birth, everyone, except Jesus Christ.
I’m sure you do try and have good intentions, but we fall short and sin, I don’t know your life but I know what my secrets were and after having the courage to tell someone those skeletons I found out I’m not the only one with them. I suspect everyone has done things they’d like to keep from everyone. But who we really are is who we are in secret with no one else around.

 

[blü 2]

He gave us His Word, He showed up and demonstrated and taught us how to live and get right with Him. He made everything clear.

Then you should be able to state it in one or two limpid sentences. I'd be interested, because I don't think the morality he preached was anything novel ─ the Golden Rule is found in cultures a thousand years or more before Jesus. (It arises from the evolved human moral tendency to approve fairness and reciprocity, so it's been around as long as humans have.)

 

[rational experiences]

He a man.
His a man.
Him a man.

A man as a hu man owns a penis to quote what a man means.

Notice he says man Hu man. As status in I apply the words myself?

Male he says looks at the other hu man says your body is different I will name you fe male.

Notice ownership established by the thinker. Male.

Is that basic advice too difficult for a theist scientist to say I lied.

A book says brother murdered his brother.

Rome ignored sacrificed life witnessed.

Got burnt by falling asteroid saviour debris.

Out laws by human law Alchemy.
Said no man is God. Said word was GOD as explained spiral movement on face space the great deep.

Said science had caused a criminal act against life. It was written to name the causes. All negated body types all evil gained thinkers who then did crimes.

States in book human ignored the holy God status first and natural.

Yet in the same book had to write and explain why.

Then science reads it as a how to do it again theist.

And you wonder why the book was written do you?

Fake mother empty space.
Fake mother evil radiating space.
Fake female maths science status.

No female as your life equal was any evil spirit. Your man thoughts were.

Reason your thoughts equalled what you believed in so meant nothing at all.

 

[blü 2]

There was rebellion in the Garden and sin was passed to all human beings, rebellion is in us from birth, everyone, except Jesus Christ.

Really? Quote me the part of the Garden story that says there was a rebellion in the Garden. And bear in mind that since God had deliberately denied knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve, it was not possible for them to form an intention to do wrong ─ which you must have before you can sin ─ and hence no sin.

Note well that God never says they sinned. And that the word 'sin' appears nowhere in the story.

Note well that God did not expel them from the Garden for rebellion, disobedience, sin, but only and explicitly for the reasons [he] states in Genesis 3:22-23.

Note well that those same verses make it clear that Adam and Eve were always going to die.

Note well that the snake is not identified with Satan, and tells no lies. (Satan when we first meet him (1 Chronicles 21:1) is a courtier at God's court, with whom God socializes and makes bets as in Job 1. His identity as arch-villain is a later invention.)

The linking of the Garden story to a Fall of Man is first found among the Jews of Alexandria late in the 2nd century BCE; and is mentioned once by Paul. However it didn't become significant till Augustine of Hippo c. 400 CE picked up the idea and ran with it. I don't argue that it's not Christian doctrine, but I point out it has no foundation in the Tanakh and I emphasize that it's a dreadful thing to teach children that they're born sinners.

Oh, and as for whether sin is heritable, there are examples where God curses someone "to the third generation". But for the more general principle, see Ezekiel 18:20 ─ indeed, read the whole of Ezekiel 18 carefully.

 

[Meow Mix]

What in the toxic misogyny is this OP?

 

[rational experiences]

A human is first alive to argue theory. Living in equal human living conditions naturally.

To theory about cosmic beginnings.

First science theory before any other theory. About why how creation created.

That thesis is eternal first. God lost sung out of the eternal. Burst banged burnt. Instant burn opened space mass gone.

Space opening cooled stopped burning.

Then you have another theory. Human man wanting machine theory to change earth mass. Who quantified to own conversion I have to force the held mass to own a radiating space to move the conversion through.

A God theory for human science.

The theory everyone form highest existed first.

He the thinker man men brothers agreed science.

The nature garden oxygenator of his heaven life had to exist naturally for the storyteller to theory from observed higher states.

First means whatever highest state was.

Earth owned it's own highest states before change by scientist.

It's first is not cosmic first.

Status natural is innocent of human man men science inventor reactions.

The teaching.

Only the men science theists were guilty of the sin of man. Science.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Then you should be able to state it in one or two limpid sentences. I'd be interested, because I don't think the morality he preached was anything novel ─ the Golden Rule is found in cultures a thousand years or more before Jesus. (It arises from the evolved human moral tendency to approve fairness and reciprocity, so it's been around as long as humans have.)

10 Commandments

 

[ElishaElijah]

Really? Quote me the part of the Garden story that says there was a rebellion in the Garden.

“The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:15-17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

They ate from the tree