psychoslice
Veteran Member
Yes, sorry I didn't see what religion you were.
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If the Jewish Messiah has already come….
- Thread starter roger1440
- Start date
If that was the only one He fulfilled you might have a point, but it isn't and it seems you peuposly ignored the other 2 I mentioned.
Don't you just love how vague all these 'fulfilled prophecies' are?
roger1440
I do stuff
So the only proof Jesus is the Messiah is written in the Bible. There is no other proof? Ink on pages in a book makes Jesus the Messiah. What the heck prophecy is that one? I been reading the Bible for over 40 years, I never seen that verse. Can you quote it please? From what I been reading on this thread the only requirement for the Messiah is to have people write a book saying you are the Messiah.
A key biblical verse is when Jesus on the Mount of Olives predicts the destruction of the Jewish Temple and then speaks of the desolation that causes abomination in the book of Daniel. This a critical moment when Jesus places His seal on aspects of this prophetic book that relate to specifically to Him. A day in prophetic language is equivalent to a year as recorded in the Book of Numbers 14:34. So there are 490 years from the time the decree of Artaxerxes (Ezra 7:13 - 28) until the crucifixion of Christ. It is interesting when Jesus is asked about how many times to forgive someone he says seven seventy times or 490 times (Mathew 18:22). A study of Mathew Chapter 24 helps to make sense of at least some of the book of Daniel. Some other aspects of Daniel concern The Christ's second coming.
An explanation is found in the Baha'i writings as follows:
"...in the Book of Daniel, from the rebuilding of Jerusalem to the martyrdom of Christ, seventy weeks are appointed; for by the martyrdom of Christ the sacrifice is accomplished and the altar destroyed. This is a prophecy of the manifestation of Christ. These seventy weeks begin with the restoration and the rebuilding of Jerusalem, concerning which four edicts were issued by three kings.
Therefore, four hundred and ninety days are four hundred and ninety years. The third edict of Artaxerxes was issued four hundred and fifty-seven years before the birth of Christ, and Christ when He was martyred and ascended was thirty-three years of age. When you add thirty-three to four hundred and fifty-seven, the result is four hundred and ninety, which is the time announced by Daniel for the manifestation of Christ.
But in the twenty-fifth verse of the ninth chapter of the Book of Daniel this is expressed in another manner, as seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and apparently this differs from the first saying. Many have remained perplexed at these differences, trying to reconcile these two statements. How can seventy weeks be right in one place, and sixty-two weeks and seven weeks in another? These two sayings do not accord.
But Daniel mentions two dates. One of these dates begins with the command of Artaxerxes to Ezra to rebuild Jerusalem: this is the seventy weeks which came to an end with the ascension of Christ, when by His martyrdom the sacrifice and oblation ceased.
The second period, which is found in the twenty-sixth verse, means that after the termination of the rebuilding of Jerusalem until the ascension of Christ, there will be sixty-two weeks: the seven weeks are the duration of the rebuilding of Jerusalem, which took forty-nine years. When you add these seven weeks to the sixty-two weeks, it makes sixty-nine weeks, and in the last week (69–70) the ascension of Christ took place. These seventy weeks are thus completed, and there is no contradiction."
From a talk given by Abdu'l-Baha in Akka in the early 20th century
An explanation is found in the Baha'i writings as follows:
"...in the Book of Daniel, from the rebuilding of Jerusalem to the martyrdom of Christ, seventy weeks are appointed; for by the martyrdom of Christ the sacrifice is accomplished and the altar destroyed. This is a prophecy of the manifestation of Christ. These seventy weeks begin with the restoration and the rebuilding of Jerusalem, concerning which four edicts were issued by three kings.
Therefore, four hundred and ninety days are four hundred and ninety years. The third edict of Artaxerxes was issued four hundred and fifty-seven years before the birth of Christ, and Christ when He was martyred and ascended was thirty-three years of age. When you add thirty-three to four hundred and fifty-seven, the result is four hundred and ninety, which is the time announced by Daniel for the manifestation of Christ.
But in the twenty-fifth verse of the ninth chapter of the Book of Daniel this is expressed in another manner, as seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and apparently this differs from the first saying. Many have remained perplexed at these differences, trying to reconcile these two statements. How can seventy weeks be right in one place, and sixty-two weeks and seven weeks in another? These two sayings do not accord.
But Daniel mentions two dates. One of these dates begins with the command of Artaxerxes to Ezra to rebuild Jerusalem: this is the seventy weeks which came to an end with the ascension of Christ, when by His martyrdom the sacrifice and oblation ceased.
The second period, which is found in the twenty-sixth verse, means that after the termination of the rebuilding of Jerusalem until the ascension of Christ, there will be sixty-two weeks: the seven weeks are the duration of the rebuilding of Jerusalem, which took forty-nine years. When you add these seven weeks to the sixty-two weeks, it makes sixty-nine weeks, and in the last week (69–70) the ascension of Christ took place. These seventy weeks are thus completed, and there is no contradiction."
From a talk given by Abdu'l-Baha in Akka in the early 20th century
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How about some biblical prophetic verses that concern world peace that almost certainly don't relate to Jesus. Here one from Isaiah Chapter 2
"The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. Now it shall come to pass in the latter days That the mountain of the LORD'S house Shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be exalted above the hills; And all nations shall flow into it. Many people shall come and say, 'Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths.' For out of Zion shall go forth the law. And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. He shall judge between the nations, And rebuke many people; They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. O house of Jacob, come and let us walk in the light of the LORD."
There's a few others too and Ezekiel has similar themes.
"The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. Now it shall come to pass in the latter days That the mountain of the LORD'S house Shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be exalted above the hills; And all nations shall flow into it. Many people shall come and say, 'Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths.' For out of Zion shall go forth the law. And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. He shall judge between the nations, And rebuke many people; They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore. O house of Jacob, come and let us walk in the light of the LORD."
There's a few others too and Ezekiel has similar themes.
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Of course not. If the verse is Messianic, and it is, it describes what will happen to the Messiah. If it happens, it is fulfilled.
If you have been reading the Bile for over 40 years you should have realised it talks about the coming the Messiah---you should recognize it has prophecies---you should recognize some the the prophecies are Messianic----you should recognize Jesus fulfilled them---some a vague, some aer not.
The NT speaks of the Messiah coming again. Then He will the ones He did not fulfill at His first coming.
Mt 13:10 - Why do you speak o them in parables? Ps 78:2 - I will open My mouth in a parable. Mt 13:35 - This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet.
The Messiah was to be born of a virgin(Isa 7:14). And yes I know the word means a young girl, but it means a young girl who is virgin. A young girl giving birth to a Son in Jerusalem would be a common event.
Ex 12:46 - ...You are not to break and bone of it(The Passover lamb).
Ps 34:20 - He keeps ll his bones,not one of them is broken.
Jn 19:33 - but coming to Jesus they saw He was already dead, they did not break His legs.
Jn 19:36 - For these things came to pass that the Scriptures might be fulfilled; not a bone of Him shall be broken.
BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD
There are many others,but if these don' convincne you, God will have to do i, no me.
rosends
Well-Known Member
No it isn't. Can you show me any reference to the messiah in it? Or is that just your interpretation, introducing a concept not in the text?
roger1440
I do stuff
Indirectly you had just proved my point. Jesus and/or the Messiah can only be found in books. If that is true it would seem God is some kind of practical joker. There are millions of books published each year in the world. Multiply that by the amount of years mankind has been writing books and we end up with a heck of a lot of books. The number of books would be in the hundreds of millions. It would only be by sheer luck that a person would stumble across the right set of books. Once that is accomplished then the person would have to find the right person or persons to explain the books. That is a pretty tall order if you ask me. In the amount of time it took you to read this post several books have been already published.
Book Statistics - Worldometers
But some love to condemn and refuse to let God be God. There are not a few Catholics who refuse to consider the possibility of salvation for the Jews. Yet if one considers the covenant with Abraham, it is only God that is bound by it. So, in short, if the Jews are not saved then God is a liar.
I have assume you are referring the Isa 53. It is a perfect description of the crucifixion and what it accomplished for mankind. No Jew has or can do what that chapter teaches.
Of course we find it in books. Where else could you find it? All biographies are in books. Do you questions the ones about Lincoln? How about the ones on Plato? Be consistent.
roger1440
I do stuff
Over the years I have heard stories of ghosts, goblins, fairies, big foot, alien abductions, witches, warlocks, gremlins, nymphs, vampires, the bogeyman, dragons, elves, genies, zombies, Lock Ness Monster, leprechauns, mermaids, unicorns and the list goes on and on. I should believe all of them without question?
Tumah
Veteran Member
Just about every Jew is descendant from Jews that the events described in that chapter are describing.
You sound disheartened.
roger1440
I do stuff
Why do you say that, cause I don't believe in each and everything I'm told?
Jesus' name will be 'Immanuel'. Matthew 1:22-3, Isaiah 7:14
'Out of Egypt I called my son'. Mt 2:18. Hos 11:1
A ruler will come from Bethlehem. Mt 2:6, Mic 5.2
The massacre of the innocents. Mt 2:18, Jer 31:15
Beyond the Jordan, the people who sat in darkness saw a great light. Mt 4:15, Isa 9:1-2
He Himself took our infirmities/ and bore our sicknesses. Mt 8:17, Isa 53:4
Prophetic praise of Jesus, His character and ministry to the Gentiles. Mt 12:18-21, Isa 42:1-4
He will speak in parables. Mt 13:35, Ps 78:2
The Messiah will enter Jerusalem on a donkey. Mt 21:4-5, Zech 9:9
Yes the list goes on. Clearly circumstantial as it is compelling. Thats the nature of prophecy. It can't be too easy other how could the pure in heart be distinguihed from those whose hearts are not receptive.
I'm not even a Christian and yet the blind can see!
If we are having a serious conversation you need to have the honesty to say what you actually think and feel. I'm having difficulty making sense of where you are coming from, but appreciate I may have misunderstood you.