If there was universe before big bang

[Subduction Zone]

There's no contest. The EXAMPLE of Christ in the Gospels is undeniable. If you hate your brother then you violate the example.
Some find a verse, or take something out of context, or mistranslate, or 'modernize' the text to justify hating their brother. But it
doesn't work. Truth is absolute.

No, you will lose when it comes to a morality battle. Others preached almost exactly the same. I don't think that they preach that their God will torture you forever because that God did not cheat in your favor and allow you to win at hide and seek.

The Abrahamic gods tend to be the world's best players at hide and seek and all of them have terrible punishments for not finding god. In fact the Christian God often claims that he chooses who to win at hide and seek. I see that you wisely did not bring up the fake sacrifice of Jesus.

And how are you going to prove that TruthTM is absolute?

 

[ChristineM]

Well if you 'threaten' others then you AREN'T a Christian. There are well defined boundaries to being a Christian.
You could be a FAILED Christian, but if so then you would have to mend the fences.

Tell the christians that use threats against non christians that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Tell the christians that use threats against non christians that.

He already played the No True Scotsman card. Will he do so again?

 

[ChristineM]

I see an adulterous and drug addled world, not to mention mainstreaming of gambling, pornography and even the rise
of industrial scale child pornography.
Back in the days when some people held slaves in our 'Christian' world there were Christians who fought that - slavery
wasn't universal ---- just like child porn isn't universal.

Yes these things exist, as i stated, much of it christian.

Adultery, gambling and pornography are not illegal most places,


Slavery does not need to be universal to be slavery

Most slave owners in say, america were christian, those that transported the captives from aftica to america were christian. Sure some few fought against it, so did non christians.

 

[ChristineM]

He already played the No True Scotsman card. Will he do so again?

Yes, i am sure. Seems very selective who she allows into her club too

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes these things exist, as i stated, much of it christian.

Adultery, gambling and pornography are not illegal most places,


Slavery does not need to be universal to be slavery

Most slave owners in say, america were christian, those that transported the captives from aftica to america were christian. Sure some few fought against it, so did non christians.

It is rather amazing that the one clear wrong that you listed is not condemned in the Bible.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It is rather amazing that the one clear wrong that you listed is not condemned in the Bible.

Well, I am an odd former Christian and current atheist. I have never read the Bible.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, I am an odd former Christian and current atheist. I have never read the Bible.

None of it?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

None of it?

Well, not in earnest. I had to at high school to read a little part and had an oral exam on some few parts of it. But I might as well had draw Inuit religion.
So in practice I have never read it and would never claim to have an opinion on it as for what it actually says. I just state that I believe differently.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, not in earnest. I had to at high school to read a little part and had an oral exam on some few parts of it. But I might as well had draw Inuit religion.
So in practice I have never read it and would never claim to have an opinion on it as for what it actually says. I just state that I believe differently.

I won't claim to have read the whole thing, but may have. I have never purposefully sat down and read it from cover to cover, there are parts so incredibly boring that that it will turn one's brain to mush, but I have read most of it and definitely the more important parts.

One thing about realizing that it is book or series of books of a people mythical beliefs it is far easier to understand. One does not have the problem of endless self contradiction. One does not need apologetics to explain away the evil acts that God orders or does himself. One does not have to worry about the verses that contradict other verses. One can read it as it is. The exceedingly boring parts are still too boring to read and Revelation still sounds like someone who just took a good sized dose of meth wrote it.

 

[PruePhillip]

Yes these things exist, as i stated, much of it christian.

Adultery, gambling and pornography are not illegal most places,


Slavery does not need to be universal to be slavery

Most slave owners in say, america were christian, those that transported the captives from aftica to america were christian. Sure some few fought against it, so did non christians.

So we had, what, half a million people die to stop slavery? It shows how divided America was prior
to the Civil War. And the main argument was that slavery was not Christian.

 

[PruePhillip]

Tell the christians that use threats against non christians that.

You can't judge Christianty by the BREACH of Christianity.
Do you judge the spirit of the Oympic Games by those caught cheating?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So we had, what, half a million people die to stop slavery? It shows how divided America was prior
to the Civil War. And the main argument was that slavery was not Christian.

And the counter argument was quite often that slavery was Christian.

The Bible openly supports slavery. It does not condemn it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You can't judge Christianty by the BREACH of Christianity.
Do you judge the spirit of the Oympic Games by those caught cheating?

It would depend upon the number of people cheating. I still think that Lance Armstrong got a bit of a raw deal. Every top cyclist at that time was cheating. He alone paid the price. Is that fair? I am not saying that he was not cheating, but that he should not have been singled out.

It often appears that a very high percentage of Christians fail by your No True Scotsman version of the religion.

 

[PruePhillip]

No, you will lose when it comes to a morality battle. Others preached almost exactly the same. I don't think that they preach that their God will torture you forever because that God did not cheat in your favor and allow you to win at hide and seek.

The Abrahamic gods tend to be the world's best players at hide and seek and all of them have terrible punishments for not finding god. In fact the Christian God often claims that he chooses who to win at hide and seek. I see that you wisely did not bring up the fake sacrifice of Jesus.

And how are you going to prove that TruthTM is absolute?

Fake sacrifice? YOU get yourself crucified and see how 'fake' it is.
Before crucifixion was even known to the Hebrews we read of the Messiah suffering crucifixion, the text
must have seemed strange to the readers of Psalms and Isaiah.
Not sure what you mean by hide and seek.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Fake sacrifice? YOU get yourself crucified and see how 'fake' it is.
Before crucifixion was even known to the Hebrews we read of the Messiah suffering crucifixion, the text
must have seemed strange to the readers of Psalms and Isaiah.
Not sure what you mean by hide and seek.

You have not thought this through. But I do thank you for thinking of me as a God.

And no, those texts were well understood by the Jews. It is the Christians that have a difficult time understanding them.

Lastly, how can you even try to debate when you do not realize that your version of God is the world champion at hide and seek.

 

[PruePhillip]

And the counter argument was quite often that slavery was Christian.

The Bible openly supports slavery. It does not condemn it.

The bible did not condemn official corruption, interest rates, war, civil strife, status of women, hierarchy,
wages, terrorism, work conditions, beasts of burden, living standards, medical conditions, lack of education,
condition of roads, quality of potable water, agricultural practices, legal rights for people, lack of constitutions,
number of holidays, working hours, maternity leave, health care, lack of a postal system, sanitation etc etc..

The bible is not political, it's about how you, as a moral person, navigate your way through the world as it exists.
And means today too.

 

[PruePhillip]

You have not thought this through. But I do thank you for thinking of me as a God.

And no, those texts were well understood by the Jews. It is the Christians that have a difficult time understanding them.

Lastly, how can you even try to debate when you do not realize that your version of God is the world champion at hide and seek.

Here's two that were clearly NOT understood in the Tanakh.
The suffering Messiah (isn't he supposed to conquer his enemies?) and the second return of the Jews from exile
(second time? there's no FIRST time - we are still captive in Babylon!!!!)

 

[We Never Know]

It would depend upon the number of people cheating. I still think that Lance Armstrong got a bit of a raw deal. Every top cyclist at that time was cheating. He alone paid the price. Is that fair? I am not saying that he was not cheating, but that he should not have been singled out.

It often appears that a very high percentage of Christians fail by your No True Scotsman version of the religion.

"Lance Armstrong beat metastatic testicular cancer that spread to his lungs and brain and then went on to win the Tour de France a record seven consecutive times."

His cinderella story is why he was singled out.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The bible did not condemn official corruption, interest rates, war, civil strife, status of women, hierarchy,
wages, terrorism, work conditions, beasts of burden, living standards, medical conditions, lack of education,
condition of roads, quality of potable water, agricultural practices, legal rights for people, lack of constitutions,
number of holidays, working hours, maternity leave, health care, lack of a postal system, sanitation etc etc..

The bible is not political, it's about how you, as a moral person, navigate your way through the world as it exists.
And means today too.

That is quite a list, the problem is that you did not compare what it does not condemn to that which it does. That is a major failure of your religion. It can't refute actual wrongs but it takes the time to ban polyester.