If there was universe before big bang

[RestlessSoul]

"Creation" is a loaded term. It implies a "creator". That is something that no theist has been able to support. A better more neutral term is "Cosmos". It still could have been created or it could be natural. The term is neutral.

It’s absurd how “creation” has become such a trigger word in certain quarters, that there are those who would remove it from the lexicon. Anything which has been brought into existence, whether by natural processes, by human hand, or by act of God, has been created.

Banishing words from the language in order to restrict debate, is a form of linguistic tyranny and intolerance. Choosing words carefully is an aid to effective communication; sanctioning their use, is anything but.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There had to be a beginning to the first universe in the series.

Why?

Or perhaps more importantly, why would god be exempt from that rule?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I think the name universe was coined long before the idea of a multiverse.

If I'm not mistaken, current physics jargon uses "universe" to refer to our specific space-time bubble while "cosmos" refers to our space-time bubble + whatever else might exist.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It’s absurd how “creation” has become such a trigger word in certain quarters

You can blame "creationists" for that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It’s absurd how “creation” has become such a trigger word in certain quarters, that there are those who would remove it from the lexicon. Anything which has been brought into existence, whether by natural processes, by human hand, or by act of God, has been created.

Banishing words from the language in order to restrict debate, is a form of linguistic tyranny and intolerance. Choosing words carefully is an aid to effective communication; sanctioning their use, is anything but.

No one is suggesting removing jt. Nor was there any triggering. Why make such false charges. The fact is that some creationists use the incredibly stupid "If there is a creation there must be a creator" argument. It is one of Ray Queef's favorites. The word creation implies agency. Cosmos is neutral in that fashion. It does not lean either way.

Why do you get so "triggered" when a neutral word is suggested?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I respect that, any living person who tells you about life after death is a liar for they are not dead

Connecting this to the thread, an infinite Universe would mean the likelihood of the particular pattern of your biology, and thus your consciousness, being "reincarnated."

Similarly, as Nietzsche's demon proclaims, if the Universe were finite but time infinite, then your life would be repeated infinitely in every possible iteration of it.

 

[PruePhillip]

Unless its an infinity of turtles.

True, but the universe isn't infinite in age or distance.

 

[ChristineM]

Which means what they call Multiverse, would be just various sections of the one Universe.

No it doesn't, what it means is yoy cannot comprehend any cosmological ideas beyond this universe

 

[ChristineM]

If I'm not mistaken, current physics jargon uses "universe" to refer to our specific space-time bubble while "cosmos" refers to our space-time bubble + whatever else might exist.

I agree with that

 

[ChristineM]

True, but the universe isn't infinite in age or distance.

Actually the universe is measured to be infinite to 5 decimal places, but that's a long stort.

Perhaps turtles are infinite all the way down. Has anyone counted?

 

[RestlessSoul]

No one is suggesting removing jt. Nor was there any triggering. Why make such false charges. The fact is that some creationists use the incredibly stupid "If there is a creation there must be a creator" argument. It is one of Ray Queef's favorites. The word creation implies agency. Cosmos is neutral in that fashion. It does not lean either way.

Why do you get so "triggered" when a neutral word is suggested?

If you think the argument, where there is creation there must be a creator, is incredibly stupid, why not refute it using the tools at your disposal? Trying to shut down a preposition by censoring the language in which it is expressed, is not a great advertisement for sound reasoning.

I ha e no idea who Ray Queef is. Is it worth my while finding out?

 

[Subduction Zone]

If you think the argument, where there is creation there must be a creator, is incredibly stupid, why not refute it using the tools at your disposal? Trying to shut down a preposition by censoring the language in which it is expressed, is not a great advertisement for sound reasoning.

I ha e no idea who Ray Queef is. Is it worth my while finding out?

Why not avoid it in the first place by using proper language? If a person refuses to use unbiased language it tells us that we are not dealing with an honest interlocutor. Speaking of which Ray Queef's proper name is Ray Comfort (one of my few exceptions for the don't call names rule) and that is one of his favorite arguments. If one knows that one is dealing with a Ray Comfort clone one knows that there is no hope for a meaningful discussion.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Why not avoid it in the first place by using proper language? If a person refuses to use unbiased language it tells us that we are not dealing with an honest interlocutor. Speaking of which Ray Queef's proper name is Ray Comfort (one of my few exceptions for the don't call names rule) and that is one of his favorite arguments. If one knows that one is dealing with a Ray Comfort clone one knows that there is no hope for a meaningful discussion.

Unbiased language, are you serious? I think your own bias is positively deafening here.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Unbiased language, are you serious? I think your own bias is positively deafening here.

You can't be serious. What is biased about using the term "cosmos"? It is all inclusive. If there is something beyond the universe it includes it, if only our universe exists it has only that. It does not have a bias towards a creator or away from one. You seem to prefer biased language even if you hate the idiotic arguments that that language causes. Once again, one can avoid some of those arguments by using unbiased terms. How is "cosmos" biased?

 

[PruePhillip]

Actually the universe is measured to be infinite to 5 decimal places, but that's a long stort.

Perhaps turtles are infinite all the way down. Has anyone counted?

The universe is about 13.4 billion years old. It has been expanding since the Big Bang.
Should you traverse one direction I suppose you will come back the other - that kind of
infinity.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The universe is about 13.4 billion years old. It has been expanding since the Big Bang.
Should you traverse one direction I suppose you will come back the other - that kind of
infinity.

We are not even sure if space is bent in that manner. That could be a possibility. Or the universe could also be infinitely large. There is a lot that we do not know yet.

 

[RestlessSoul]

You can't be serious. What is biased about using the term "cosmos"? It is all inclusive. If there is something beyond the universe it includes it, if only our universe exists it has only that. It does not have a bias towards a creator or away from one. You seem to prefer biased language even if you hate the idiotic arguments that that language causes. Once again, one can avoid some of those arguments by using unbiased terms. How is "cosmos" biased?

I have no problem with the word cosmos. I rather like it, it reminds me of Yuri Gagarin, and the statue of him in London, donated by the Russian space agency RosCosmos.

I’m a little uncomfortable with words like “hate” and “idiotic”, but I have no impulse to restrict your use of them. They tell me something about how you think, and are therefore powerful communication tools.

 

[Truthseeker]

When I was in chemistry grad school many decades ago, we used to get together with physics PhD students and argue and discuss new ideas of the day

Wow! Chemistry grad school! I was never much good with chemistry. I was very good with Mathematics until it got to grad school. As someone on the autism spectrum, I was no good with abstract proofs. I tend to think in pictures like Temple Grandin, a famous autistic person. I didn't know at the time I was on the spectrum. It was only after my autistic son was born, that I investigated and found I was on the spectrum. Then later I was officially diagnosed with it. Those on autism spectrum tend to be good at Mathematics and Physics. Einstein and Newton are suspected to be on the autism spectrum.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have no problem with the word cosmos. I rather like it, it reminds me of Yuri Gagarin, and the statue of him in London, donated by the Russian space agency RosCosmos.

I’m a little uncomfortable with words like “hate” and “idiotic”, but I have no impulse to restrict your use of them. They tell me something about how you think, and are therefore powerful communication tools.

Oh my! There might be just a little projection here. Otherwise why the excessive snark?

This is not a gracious loss on your part.

 

[rational experiences]

When everyone is just a human first.

Born a baby only.... two human adults once we're first humans. Everyone else sperm ovary conception thinks. You lie

Consciousness humans uses all its aspects.

As an adult thinker humans living 120 years ago humans genetics didn't even exist.

So you lie.

When a human died humans watched it decompose in the same only living on earth heavenly support life.

You ended up a body of bones like God the earth.

So O God remains as rock you biological end as bones.

The bones eventually break down disappear into grounds mass as planet owned.

Microbe bacterias that ate you live all the time yet you don't. Human liar.

If you say you are a planet by type you end as human bones.

If you said you were a flesh eating bacteria first you'll die.

Pretty basic don't use human lying when you think.