If this pandemic/pestilece is a sign of the end..next sign is in the heavens

[dad]

The evidence is overwhelming. You cannot produce any evidence whatsoever for your different nature on earth in the past. Every post you confirm it.

Your excuses for denying history and science are exposed as nothing but a choice to do so based on nothing.

Again, try to focus on what thread you are spamming in.

 

[dad]

I hold that the time of sorrows or beginning of sorrows is the Tribulation period. This time of sorrows begins in (Matt. 24:4-14).

The next few verses after Matt 24:4 say this

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

The Great Tribulation period is 42 months or 3 1/2 years long. We could call the whole seven years period the tribulation I guess if we like, but not the Great Tribulation. The time of trouble with no historical comparison starts after the abomination of desolation is set up, midway through the seven years.

It is the first 3 and 1/2 years. (Matt. 24:15) marks the middle of the Tribulation as (Dan. 9:27) clearly states that is when the abomination of desolation is set up. And so (Matt. 24:15-28) describes the last 3 and 1/2 years of the Tribulation. (Matt. 24:29-31) speaks to the end of the Tribulation and the Second Coming of Christ as (24:29) says, "Immediately after the tribulation"

I see. So you would not include the last seven year period as the time of sorrows. Fair enough.

I'm sure there will be many during the Tribulation who will turn to God. The Gospel preached during that time will be the Gospel of the kingdom and not the Gospel of Grace. (Matt. 24:14). That Gospel was specifically directed toward Israel when Christ first began His public ministry. (Matt. 3:1-2) (Matt. 4:17) (Matt. 6:10) (Matt. 10:5-7) The Jew must repent of his unbelief in God, and the Gentile's faith will be seen in his belief in that Gospel and his response to the Jews who will be persecuted by the anti-Christ. (Matt 25:33-40)

I do think that Israel will be the main focus after Christians are taken up. In Matt 24 it mentions

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

The people He addresses here seem to be a nation!

I hold to the Rapture occurring at the beginning of the Tribulation. In fact, I believe it is the trigger that initiates that 7 year period. Why? Because the U.S. must be removed as the main power in the world. Power must go back to that area involving the Old Roman Empire for the end time events of the Tribulation period to occur. And I think the Rapture will affect the U.S. more than any other country in the world. And I think that would do it.

Here you again seem to be calling the seven years the Great Tribulation.
I suspect you may be correct in the belief that the Rapture would be at the start of the seven-year period. I won't be dogmatic on that point though.
I do think that the old Roman Empire will form the crux of the final government also. It is possible you are correct and the US may be finished. However I suppose it might be possible it joins Europe as one of the kings, and is the 8th power, (yet of the seven). Who knows? So I don't want to step out on a limb and claim that the US has to be wiped out according to the bible, before the final seven years starts.

Salvation is always by faith no matter what time period we are in. I believe the signs are for the believers and support their faith. No doubt the difficult times of the Tribulation period will cause many to turn to God and Christ. But, it still has to be by faith.

Basically, yes. It seems the real wicked couldn't care less what signs came, they will only blaspheme more.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

The next few verses after Matt 24:4 say this

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

The Great Tribulation period is 42 months or 3 1/2 years long. We could call the whole seven years period the tribulation I guess if we like, but not the Great Tribulation. The time of trouble with no historical comparison starts after the abomination of desolation is set up, midway through the seven years.


I see. So you would not include the last seven year period as the time of sorrows. Fair enough.


I do think that Israel will be the main focus after Christians are taken up. In Matt 24 it mentions

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

The people He addresses here seem to be a nation!



Here you again seem to be calling the seven years the Great Tribulation.
I suspect you may be correct in the belief that the Rapture would be at the start of the seven-year period. I won't be dogmatic on that point though.
I do think that the old Roman Empire will form the crux of the final government also. It is possible you are correct and the US may be finished. However I suppose it might be possible it joins Europe as one of the kings, and is the 8th power, (yet of the seven). Who knows? So I don't want to step out on a limb and claim that the US has to be wiped out according to the bible, before the final seven years starts.



Basically, yes. It seems the real wicked couldn't care less what signs came, they will only blaspheme more.

I hold to the Tribulation period being the 7 years of Daniels last week. (Dan. 9:27) That is clear. Just because the severity of it does not begin until the abomination is set up in the Temple, doesn't mean it isn't the Tribulation period. We can call the last half, the 3 and 1/2 years, the Great Tribulation. But no matter. The last week is the Tribulation.

No, you don't see. I don't know where you got that I would not include the time of sorrows as part of the Tribulation. See my first sentence in post #(179). So what is the problem? The time line I gave in (Matt. 24) is very precise. Yet, you come up with a false statement regarding it, and do not address it.

OK. Israel is the main focus. For what ever that is worth concerning what I said.

I have been very clear. The 7 year period, Daniel's 70th week, is the Tribulation period. I don't 'seem' to be saying anything. I am saying.

Concerning the 'signs', that has been my point. You said the unbeliever will be affected by the signs. I have said, no, the signs are for the believer. The unbeliever could care less about signs. You now say, the 'real wicked'. Who the hell is that? It is not about the 'real wicked'. It is about the unbeliever.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[dad]

I hold to the Tribulation period being the 7 years of Daniels last week. (Dan. 9:27) That is clear. Just because the severity of it does not begin until the abomination is set up in the Temple, doesn't mean it isn't the Tribulation period. We can call the last half, the 3 and 1/2 years, the Great Tribulation. But no matter. The last week is the Tribulation.

No, you don't see. I don't know where you got that I would not include the time of sorrows as part of the Tribulation. See my first sentence in post #(179). So what is the problem? The time line I gave in (Matt. 24) is very precise. Yet, you come up with a false statement regarding it, and do not address it.

The time line starting from verse 4 cannot be very clear or precise when it says this right after..

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

So do not say I came up with a false statement.

Concerning the 'signs', that has been my point. You said the unbeliever will be affected by the signs. I have said, no, the signs are for the believer. The unbeliever could care less about signs. You now say, the 'real wicked'. Who the hell is that? It is not about the 'real wicked'. It is about the unbeliever.

Good-Ole-Rebel

The math seems plain to me. If, say, billions of nonbelievers left behind in the Rapture later get saved and do believe they may have done so because of the signs! That means they were not believers at all when the signs were seen and helped them decide.
So it is certain unbelievers will be affected.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Other pestilences were signs also. I notice that the time from the black plague till the Spanish Flu was longer than say, Ebola or Sars to Covind 19. So, it seems the intensity and frequency is more. That is what we look for, like a woman in labor. The pains get shorter and shorter apart.

Missed this bit of dumbarsery.

Look. It's like I tell the star-eyed kids in my community that think a crow croaking at them is a sign straight from the heavens. If you're looking for signs, you're going to see them everywhere.

 

[dad]

Missed this bit of dumbarsery.

Look. It's like I tell the star-eyed kids in my community that think a crow croaking at them is a sign straight from the heavens. If you're looking for signs, you're going to see them everywhere.

So the bible was wrong to list them and tell us to watch?

 

[Tiberius]

Again, try to focus on what thread you are spamming in.

That's rich from the guy who makes big claims and then hides from supporting them.

 

[dad]

That's rich from the guy who makes big claims and then hides from supporting them.

Why claim I made claims without support when you can't support that claim? That sounds like some little whiney spam gripe rather than a sincere effort to discuss the topic of the thread.

 

[Tiberius]

Why claim I made claims without support when you can't support that claim? That sounds like some little whiney spam gripe rather than a sincere effort to discuss the topic of the thread.

I claimed that you can't follow your own advice and that you have one set of rules for you and a different set of rules for everyone else. I made this claim in post 136.

As support for this claim, I will direct your attention to where you claim that believers should be prepared to accept that they could be wrong (post 126), and I will also direct your attention to where you refused to accept that you could be wrong (post 135).

Claim made AND supported.

 

[dad]

I claimed that you can't follow your own advice and that you have one set of rules for you and a different set of rules for everyone else. I made this claim in post 136.

As support for this claim, I will direct your attention to where you claim that believers should be prepared to accept that they could be wrong (post 126), and I will also direct your attention to where you refused to accept that you could be wrong (post 135).

Claim made AND supported.

False. I did not say we could be wrong about absolute truths and stated so clearly. You seem to have some sort of delusional desperation that makes you ignore and forget and spam.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

The time line starting from verse 4 cannot be very clear or precise when it says this right after..

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

So do not say I came up with a false statement.


The math seems plain to me. If, say, billions of nonbelievers left behind in the Rapture later get saved and do believe they may have done so because of the signs! That means they were not believers at all when the signs were seen and helped them decide.
So it is certain unbelievers will be affected.

Why? What is it in (Matt. 24:6) that indicates the time line I gave is not clear?

Your false statement was you saying I did not include the 'beginning of sorrows' or time of sorrows as part of the 7 year Tribulation when I have been clear that I did.

Those who get saved during the Tribulation will do so in the obedience of faith to the Gospel preached. That Gospel is not the Gospel of Grace which we preach today. It is the Gospel of the Kingdom as I explained earlier. No doubt the hell that many will go through in the Tribulation will cause many to turn to God and Christ. But that is not a sign.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[dad]

Why? What is it in (Matt. 24:6) that indicates the time line I gave is not clear?

Your false statement was you saying I did not include the 'beginning of sorrows' or time of sorrows as part of the 7 year Tribulation when I have been clear that I did.

Those who get saved during the Tribulation will do so in the obedience of faith to the Gospel preached. That Gospel is not the Gospel of Grace which we preach today. It is the Gospel of the Kingdom as I explained earlier. No doubt the hell that many will go through in the Tribulation will cause many to turn to God and Christ. But that is not a sign.

Good-Ole-Rebel

? If the time of labor pains, or the last seven-year period of world history, the final week of Dan 9 is what is meant by the phrase 'beginning of sorrows' then how would it 'be included' in the last seven years? If it is the last seven years it is not really included IN the last seven years.

If there are signs that come before this that are NOT in that seven years, then we would need a separate classification for them. In all three gospels it seems we may have that. A group of signs is given and then we are told, relax, these all need to happen first. Then we get 5 signs right after that statement in all three gospels that says, THESE ARE the beginning of sorrows. Then we get things after that also. Not sure where the disconnect is here in what you are trying to say.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

? If the time of labor pains, or the last seven-year period of world history, the final week of Dan 9 is what is meant by the phrase 'beginning of sorrows' then how would it 'be included' in the last seven years? If it is the last seven years it is not really included IN the last seven years.

If there are signs that come before this that are NOT in that seven years, then we would need a separate classification for them. In all three gospels it seems we may have that. A group of signs is given and then we are told, relax, these all need to happen first. Then we get 5 signs right after that statement in all three gospels that says, THESE ARE the beginning of sorrows. Then we get things after that also. Not sure where the disconnect is here in what you are trying to say.

Bringing new questions does not answer the questions I asked you. You made a statement, and I asked you why? Could you explain? People lose credibility with me when they avoid the questions I ask.

(Dan. 9:27) is clear that the abomination of desolation is set up in the temple in the middle of the 7 weeks period we call the Tribulation. The 'beginning of sorrows' or the 'time of sorrows' speaks to the first 3 and 1/2 years of that week. Do you acknowledge that (Dan. 9:27) is the middle of the Tribulation and not the start of the Tribulation.

The disconnect is you are not paying attention and blowing smoke. There are no signs given leading up to the Tribulation. There are signs given to the believing Jews in the the Tribulation period to give them hope. Signs to the believer.

Again, you are not paying attention to the time line outlined in (Matt. 24) and you did not answer my question to you concerning it.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

So the bible was wrong to list them and tell us to watch?

Yes. And fools are they who ignore the world around them, necks craned to see signs from above.

 

[dad]

Bringing new questions does not answer the questions I asked you. You made a statement, and I asked you why? Could you explain? People lose credibility with me when they avoid the questions I ask.

Just to be clear, what question are you talking about? People lose credibility with me when they can't be clear.

(Dan. 9:27) is clear that the abomination of desolation is set up in the temple in the middle of the 7 weeks period we call the Tribulation.

I would think so.

The 'beginning of sorrows' or the 'time of sorrows' speaks to the first 3 and 1/2 years of that week.

Right, or the start of that seven years. So far so good.

Do you acknowledge that (Dan. 9:27) is the middle of the Tribulation and not the start of the Tribulation.

Yes.

The disconnect is you are not paying attention and blowing smoke. There are no signs given leading up to the Tribulation.

Speaking of not paying attention, the five signs I pointed out in the three gospels herald the start of the seven years, not the start of the last part of it.

There are signs given to the believing Jews in the the Tribulation period to give them hope. Signs to the believer.

Sure, there are plenty of signs before the seven years starts and in the latter part of it. There are also signs that seem to show us that this is the beginning of sorrows.

Again, you are not paying attention to the time line outlined in (Matt. 24) and you did not answer my question to you concerning it.

Again, we wait for this question.

 

[dad]

Yes. And fools are they who ignore the world around them, necks craned to see signs from above.

Who says keeping one eye on heaven and the other on the ground means we ignore anything?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Who says keeping one eye on heaven and the other on the ground means we ignore anything?

Your kind's constant obsession with the end times.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Just to be clear, what question are you talking about? People lose credibility with me when they can't be clear.
I would think so.

Right, or the start of that seven years. So far so good.


Yes.
Speaking of not paying attention, the five signs I pointed out in the three gospels herald the start of the seven years, not the start of the last part of it.

Sure, there are plenty of signs before the seven years starts and in the latter part of it. There are also signs that seem to show us that this is the beginning of sorrows.

Again, we wait for this question.

No, you're not waiting. You're avoiding. Post #(191). I asked, "What is it in (Matt. 24:6) that indicates that the time line I gave is not clear?"

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[dad]

No, you're not waiting. You're avoiding. Post #(191). I asked, "What is it in (Matt. 24:6) that indicates that the time line I gave is not clear?"

Good-Ole-Rebel

Simple. Verse 4 would not probably be about the very end when we see in verse 6 that is still is talking about NOT being the end yet!

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

 

[Tiberius]

False. I did not say we could be wrong about absolute truths and stated so clearly. You seem to have some sort of delusional desperation that makes you ignore and forget and spam.

Nah, you said:

"There is always the reality that believers should be prepared to be wrong."​

Are you a believer? Are you prepared to be wrong? If you say no, then your post 126 was a lie.