If you are a religious believer, do you have to?

[Spirit of Light]

For those who follow a religion or spiritual teaching, do you feel it is so that you HAVE TO be only one way, you can only have one set of thoughts and can not think outside of the religious scripture you follow?

If you then meet people from your own faith, and they say things that is more free thinker than 100% as the scripture say, do you find your self thinking, He/She is not of my religion, because how they think or believe must be wrong.

What if those you meet have understood deeper wisdom from the scripture, and by this see that being more free thinker is actually fully ok? would you think you could be more free thinker too?

(I guess this thread is more toward Abrahamic believers, but feel free to take part, no matter what you believe)

 

[Truthseeker]

For those who follow a religion or spiritual teaching, do you feel it is so that you HAVE TO be only one way, you can only have one set of thoughts and can not think outside of the religious scripture you follow?

No, not really. I try to see flaws in my teachings, and see where that takes. It causes me doubt sometimes, but I always learn more that way.

If you then meet people from your own faith, and they say things that is more free thinker than 100% as the scripture say, do you find your self thinking, He/She is not of my religion, because how they think or believe must be wrong.

Sometimes, I get a little dogmatic about that, as I am only human, but in the end there is no orthodoxy in Baha'i. I just disagree and let him or her be. I wish I am more open minded sometimes.

 

[danieldemol]

For those who follow a religion or spiritual teaching, do you feel it is so that you HAVE TO be only one way, you can only have one set of thoughts and can not think outside of the religious scripture you follow?

If you then meet people from your own faith, and they say things that is more free thinker than 100% as the scripture say, do you find your self thinking, He/She is not of my religion, because how they think or believe must be wrong.

What if those you meet have understood deeper wisdom from the scripture, and by this see that being more free thinker is actually fully ok? would you think you could be more free thinker too?

(I guess this thread is more toward Abrahamic believers, but feel free to take part, no matter what you believe)

As a person who is spiritual but not religious i don't believe in pre-packaged sets of beliefs where you have to tick all the boxes to be considered a believer.

For me I consider anyone who says they believe in a God to be a believer in that God and anyone who says they believe in multiple Gods to be believers in those Gods.

No extra requirements

 

[danieldemol]

there is no orthodoxy in Baha'i

I disagree with that, the orthodoxy is that you have to believe Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for this age.

In my opinion.

 

[Aupmanyav]

For those who follow a religion or spiritual teaching, do you feel it is so that you HAVE TO be only one way, you can only have one set of thoughts and can not think outside of the religious scripture you follow?

If you then meet people from your own faith, and they say things that is more free thinker than 100% as the scripture say, do you find your self thinking, He/She is not of my religion, because how they think or believe must be wrong.

What if those you meet have understood deeper wisdom from the scripture, and by this see that being more free thinker is actually fully ok? would you think you could be more free thinker too.

Conscious thoughts, In Hinduism (Buddhism and Jainism too), one does not have to believe in or worship Gods or Goddesses to be religious. One can be totally religious by completing his/her duties (Buddhist by turning 'Dhamma-chakras').
And no, there is not just one way, many are considered perfectly valid. Other religions are considered valid for their followers.

Haha, we expect Hindus to have various views. Having just one for a billion people will be so boring.
I do not think I can be a more free-thinker than I already am.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. but in the end there is no orthodoxy in Baha'i.

IMHO, believing in Gods, messengers, prophecies, is very orthodox.

 

[stvdv]

I disagree with that, the orthodoxy is that you have to believe Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for this age.

In my opinion.

Is that what Bahaullah has said Himself?

Or is this how followers interpret it?

 

[RestlessSoul]

I was about to write:

All religions are one
All people are one
All God's are one

But then I thought, that looks a little like;

Ein Reich
Ein Volk
Ein Fuhrer

And that did not end well.

Then I remembered these words of W.B. Yeats

"Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold:
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world..."

 

[Trailblazer]

I disagree with that, the orthodoxy is that you have to believe Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for this age.

In my opinion.

Believing that Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for this age is not by definition orthodoxy, it is a belief.

Orthodoxy: authorized or generally accepted theory, doctrine, or practice.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=what+us+orthodxy

 

[Trailblazer]

I was about to write:

All religions are one
All people are one
All God's are one

The three onenesses is the primary message of Baha'u'llah.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is that what Bahaullah has said Himself?

Or is this how followers interpret it?

"you have to believe Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for this age."

That is what Baha'u'llah wrote, it is one of the Twin Duties.

“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Day Spring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof, hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed. It behoveth every one who reacheth this most sublime station, this summit of transcendent glory, to observe every ordinance of Him Who is the Desire of the world. These twin duties are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the Source of Divine inspiration.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 330-331

 

[danieldemol]

Is that what Bahaullah has said Himself?

Or is this how followers interpret it?

Its a fascinating question which I dont know the answer to without further study, but you will find such statements connected with the spiritual assemblies of the Baha'i community who essentially act as the gatekeepers giving people good standing in the Baha'i community.

For example the Baha'i National Spiritual Assembly in Australia states regarding becoming a Baha'i;

"It is a heartfelt decision to recognise Baha’u’llah as the Manifestation of God for this age, strive to live life in accordance with the Baha’i laws and teachings, and join the Baha’i community in its efforts to contribute to a better world."1

So according to my understanding the Baha'i community's administrative heads or spiritual assemblies might take action such as refusing you a vote in Baha'i elections if you do not believe Baha'u'llah to be the Manifestation of God for this age.

If I find the time I will try and track down who this idea originated from if possible with my extremely limited resources.

1 Becoming a Baha'i - Australian Baha'i Community

 

[RestlessSoul]

The three onenesses is the primary message of Baha'u'llah.

Three, is a magic number.

As any taoist, trinitarian Christian, or engineer will tell you (a triangle is the most stable structure).

 

[danieldemol]

Believing that Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God for this age is not by definition orthodoxy, it is a belief.

Orthodoxy: authorized or generally accepted theory, doctrine, or practice.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=what+us+orthodxy

So the theory that Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God is not authorised or generally accepted in the Baha'i Faith?!

I doubt you thought that one through.
In my opinion.

ETA Definition of doctrine;
a belief or set of beliefs, especially political or religious ones, that are taught and accepted by a particular group:

Source: doctrine

 

[danieldemol]

@stvdv I think @Trailblazer 's post #11 covers your question in Baha'u'llah's style of writing.

 

[Trailblazer]

So the theory that Baha'u'llah is the Manifestation of God is not authorised or generally accepted in the Baha'i Faith?!

It is not a theory for us, it is a belief.

ETA Definition of doctrine;
a belief or set of beliefs, especially political or religious ones, that are taught and accepted by a particular group:

Source: doctrine

Baha'is do not have doctrines because doctrines are taught by men. We adhere to what Baha'u'llah wrote, not man-made doctrines like the doctrines of the Church.

 

[danieldemol]

It is not a theory for us, it is a belief.

Baha'is do not have doctrines because doctrines are taught by men. We adhere to what Baha'u'llah wrote, not man-made doctrines like the doctrines of the Church.

You contradicted yourself here. A doctrine is a belief.

You literally may as well be saying, "it is a belief, Baha'is do not have beliefs because beliefs are taught by men"
In my opinion.

 

[Trailblazer]

You contradicted yourself here. A doctrine is a belief.

A doctrine is not a belief, otherwise there would not be two different words that have different meanings.

Definition of doctrine
: a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma Catholic doctrine
Definition of DOCTRINE

Definition of belief
: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
Definition of BELIEF

You literally may as well be saying, "it is a belief, Baha'is do not have beliefs because beliefs are taught by men"
In my opinion.

I am saying, "it is a belief, Baha'is do not have doctrines because doctrines are taught by men"

 

[danieldemol]

A doctrine is not a belief, otherwise there would not be two different words that have different meanings.

Definition of doctrine
: a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : dogma Catholic doctrine
Definition of DOCTRINE

Definition of belief
: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
Definition of BELIEF

I am saying, "it is a belief, Baha'is do not have doctrines because doctrines are taught by men"

As a principle of a system of belief (ie the Baha'i faith) the principle of Baha'u'llah being the Manifestation of God for this age qualifies as a doctrine by your definition (note: the Merriam webster dictionary is saying the same thing as Cambridge dictionary using different words, the definitions do not cancel each other out).
In my opinion.

 

[John1.12]

For those who follow a religion or spiritual teaching, do you feel it is so that you HAVE TO be only one way, you can only have one set of thoughts and can not think outside of the religious scripture you follow?

If you then meet people from your own faith, and they say things that is more free thinker than 100% as the scripture say, do you find your self thinking, He/She is not of my religion, because how they think or believe must be wrong.

What if those you meet have understood deeper wisdom from the scripture, and by this see that being more free thinker is actually fully ok? would you think you could be more free thinker too?

(I guess this thread is more toward Abrahamic believers, but feel free to take part, no matter what you believe)

over all I would try to listen and understand what he or she believes. ultimately I cannot say if someone is saved or not . 'free thinking ' ? Depends what you mean ? If you mean, maintaining your sense making and not giving that over to others ,then absolutely. This is the best way to learn the bible as a believer. The moment we give up our sense making to a religion , priest , group , organisation, Church , cult leader , guru , master , philosophy then we will never arrive at our own conclusions and be easily deceived.