Noachidism | Religious ForumsPerhaps @Rival will also chime in, as she is Noahide.
Kemetic Update | Religious Forums
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Kemetic Update | Religious Forums
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Thank you for these. I feel I've gotten to know you better. You've had quite the journey.
May I ask a question? Does Noahidism forbid assault?
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
I can't prove it to you, I don't think. But there's plenty of evidence, more than for any other Messenger. A miracle is not really good evidence of anything, usually, it is only an evidence for those who witness it. However, on one occasion there were hundreds of people who witnessed by about 10,000 people concerning Baha'u'llah's predecessor, the Bab:
From Wikipedia:
On the morning of July 9, 1850 in Tabriz, a 30-year-old Persian merchant known as the Báb was charged with apostasy and shot by order of the Prime Minister of the Persian Empire.[1] The events surrounding his execution have been the subject of controversy among researchers, and are regarded as miraculous by followers of the Baháʼí Faith, who consider him to be a Manifestation of God.
Execution order[edit]
In 1850 a new prime-minister, Amir Kabir,[6] ordered the execution of the Báb; he was brought to Tabriz, where he would be killed by a firing squad. The night before his execution, as he was being conducted to his cell, a young man, Anís (sometimes called Mulla Muhammad Ali), threw himself at the feet of the Báb, wanting to be killed with the Báb. He was immediately arrested and placed in the same cell as the Báb.[3]
On the morning of July 9, 1850, the Báb was taken to the Tabriz courtyard filled with nearly ten thousand people wishing to watch his execution. The Báb and Anís were suspended on a wall and the firing squad of 750 rifles prepared to shoot.
Bábi/Baháʼí account[edit]
Here is an account which is in line with the common Baháʼí Faith view by historian H.M. Balyuzi, a Hand of the Cause of God, who published several carefully researched histories about the Baháʼí Faith and its central figures:
Sam Khan approached the Bab: 'I profess the Christian Faith and entertain no ill will against you. If your Cause be the Cause of truth, enable me to free myself from the obligation to shed your blood.' To this the Báb replied: 'Follow your instructions, and if your intention be sincere, the Almighty is surely able to relieve you from your perplexity.' The Báb and His disciple were suspended by ropes from a nail in the wall, the head of Mirza Muhammad-'Ali resting on the breast of the Báb. Seven hundred and fifty soldiers were positioned in three files. Roofs of the buildings around teemed with spectators. Each row of soldiers fired in turn. The smoke from so many rifles clouded the scene. When it lifted the Báb was not there. Only His disciple could be seen, standing under the nail in the wall, smiling and unconcerned. Bullets had only severed the ropes with which they were suspended. Cries rang out from the onlookers: 'The Siyyid-i-Báb has gone from our sight!' A frantic search followed. The Báb was found, sitting in the same room where He had been lodged the night before, in conversation with His amanuensis. That conversation had been interrupted earlier in the day. Now it was finished and He told the farrash-bashi to carry out his duty. But the farrash-bashi was terror-stricken and ran away, nor did he ever return to his post. Sam Khan, for his part, told his superiors that he had carried out the task given to him; he would not attempt it a second time. So Aqa Jan Khan-i-Khamsih and his Nasiri regiment replaced the Armenians, and the Báb and His disciple were suspended once again at the same spot. The Nasiri regiment fired. The bodies of the Báb and His disciple were shattered, and their flesh was united. — H.M. Balyuzi,
Western accounts[edit]
These events were witnessed by western journalists. Provided below is one source that is attributed to Sir Justin Sheil, Queen Victoria's Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary in Tehran and written to Lord Palmerston, the British Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, July 22, 1850.[8][9]
The founder of the sect has been executed at Tabreez. He was killed by a volley of musketry, and his death was on the point of giving his religion a lustre which would have largely increased his proselytes. When the smoke and dust cleared away after the volley, Báb was not to be seen, and the populace proclaimed that he had ascended to the skies. The balls had broken the ropes by which he was bound, but he was dragged from the recess where after some search he was discovered and shot. His death, according to the belief of his disciples, will make no difference as Báb must always exist. — Sir Justin Sheil, [8][10]
Mírzá Mihdí Khán Zaímu'd-Dawlih[edit]
Mírzá Mihdí Khán Zaímu'd-Dawlih was the son of a Shiʻite cleric who was present at the execution of the Báb and who took his son to the barracks square to review the events he witnessed. Zaímu'd-Dawlih recounted his father's version in a book, Miftáh-i-Bábu'l-Abváb ya Taríkh-i-Báb va Bahá (Key to the Gate of Gates, or the History of the Báb and Bahá), published about A.H. 1310 (about 1896). The work is a polemically anti-Baháʼí book. But the account of the execution (which is lengthy) includes the following details:[12]
1. The Báb and Anís were suspended about three meters above the ground on a rope and fired on by a Christian regiment.
2. The bullets cut the rope and one bullet wounded Anís.
3. The Báb ran into one of the rooms in the barracks.
4. The Báb was brought back out and he and Anís were shot again, this time fatally.
Execution of the Báb - Wikipedia
This incident was recorded in some form even by someone who was anti-Baha'i.
This is not an evidence for Baha'u'lllah, but it is for the Bab. It is not proof.
If you want further evidence for the Bab investigate yourself, I can't spoon-feed you all the evidence. Likewise investigate for evidence for Baha'u'llah.
I'm honestly not sure but I strongly suspect it would come under the 7th law - make a justice system; or even the first; belief in G-d means belief in folks as Imago Dei, forbidding assault.
Whilst I believe that the Qur'an and Hadiths should be at the heart of what we as Muslims think and do, I have no problem with the idea that different Muslims can have different interpretations of the Qur'an and Hadiths.
I try to keep an open mind.
It depends what you mean by free thinking here.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Totally hilarious and irrelevant. I asked for evidence on your Allah and Bahaollah. And you write about Bab. And what is so special about killing of Bab? If what you write is true, the christian soldiers did not shoot him and his companions, the Muslims soldiers did. If you have no evidence for Bahaollah, I do not know why you have posted all this. I have read all information on Bab, Bahaollah and Bahais in Wikipedia. Who asks you to spoon-feed me? You too, like all other Bahais cannot prove a zilch. As for faith, people believe in FSM and Cthulhu too. Worship of 'Corona Devi' in India:
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Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Free thinker means one who understand the teaching and live according to it, but in same time do not become a slave to every single words in the teaching, they begin to think for them self in daily life.
Hmm. Can you give me an example?
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
One who think for him/her self when using the teaching in everyday life. But do not strictly know every letter in the quran as one example( same for people of other faiths)
Do you mean not strictly knowing every letter in the Qur'an because one hasn't (yet) read the entire Qur'an?
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
No, a beginner will of course not know the Quran propperly, that comes with time and study.
I mean a muslim can live according to islam even the person can not recite every single verse or letter in the quran. but have a good understanding of the main teaching
That is true. So how does this relate to free-thinking?
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
That by praticing the teaching new wisdom may arise within the muslim, who then gain deeper understanding and from this are able to speak more freely of what islam truly are.
(this is my understanding so others may disagree)
I guess the question is how far outside conventional understandings of Islam does one go with these new understandings and whether that means one is really understanding the inner wisdom of Islam or whether one is effectively creating a new religion.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
The main teaching will of course be there.
Do you mind me asking what you think is the main teaching of Islam?
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
In my understanding it is the teaching of how to transform the internal/inward within our own being by practice what Muhammad taught was the right way. ( i see this of course from a sufi stand point. ( sufism is to me islam) and sufism is an inward path
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure. I like to think and look outside frames but then I also question if I can sincerely be part of a religion with dogmatic beliefs.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
I do agree with you, and i found that sufism are not dogmatic in the way other abrahamic paths are
Yes there are the quran and other teachings, but there is actually more focus inward than only on the texts