If you can't take the heat .... maybe climate change is real!

[Subduction Zone]

Antarctica was a tropical paradise 90 mya. No ice. Sea levels were higher. Did earth and life get destroyed?

You were probably referring to an article like this one:

| EarthSky

A temperate rainforest once flourished in Western Antarctica, just 560 miles from the South Pole, 90 million years ago.

earthsky.org

Please note that the drill site was even closer to the South Pole than it is today.

But here is what you got wrong and continue to get wrong. It is not the temperature that is a concern. It is the rate of change. Evolution is usually a slow process. We do not want the sort of evolution that occurred at the beginning of the Paleogene. The asteroid strike marks the end of the Cretaceous and the beginning of the Paleogene. Species can only adapt at a certain rate and not go extinct. There will be areas that are productive that will become deserts and there are deserts that may become productive. The sort of changes that are coming can possibly drive countries that suddenly lose resources to attack their neighbors. We really do not want that.

 

[Pogo]

You can believe its about saving the polar bear, the ice or whatever. Its about saving our own butts, those other things don't really matter.
Our destructive nature and actions show that.

As I posted in another thread.....
"Humans could disappear from earth and earth and 99.999% of the other species would be better off.
We are the most destructive, killing, polluting, wastefull, deadly, habitat destroying, etc species that has ever existed.
In all honestly we are the worse species so far that has ever existed."

Yet we think we are good and special. Tell me how we humans that affect earth and other life/species so adversely on a planetary scale are good and special.

We are not good and special, we are us and we have a survival instinct like any other creature with instincts.
This thread is directed at people who don't want to understand the effects of human caused global warming on all of earth's creatures and what we can do about it to insure all of their survival.

 

[We Never Know]

We are not good and special, we are us and we have a survival instinct like any other creature with instincts.
This thread is directed at people who don't want to understand the effects of human caused global warming on all of earth's creatures and what we can do about it to insure all of their survival.

Of course like all animals we have survival instincts.

What things do you have that pollute the water, land and air that you would die without?

Don't confuse the convenience of making life easier with survival instincts.

 

[fantome profane]

Of course like all animals we have survival instincts.

What things do you have that pollute the water, land and air that you would die without?

Don't confuse the convenience of making life easier with survival instincts.

Survival instincts are not always correctly tuned. Animals often do things instinctually that are harmful or even fatal. This happens mainly when they evolve to survive under a certain set of conditions, and then are forced to try to survive under different conditions.

And this is true of the human animals as well. Human might be able to use their rationality to overcome their instinctual behaviour. We will have to try and see.

 

[We Never Know]

Survival instincts are not always correctly tuned. Animals often do things instinctually that are harmful or even fatal. This happens mainly when they evolve to survive under a certain set of conditions, and then are forced to try to survive under different conditions.

And this is true of the human animals as well. Human might be able to use their rationality to overcome their instinctual behaviour. We will have to try and see.

We invent something and say "hey that's makes life easier, lets go with it" without considering long term effects.
Then when the long term effects hit we say oh ****!

Plastics are another good example of that.

"Microplastics are found in many things, including:

• Food
  Microplastics can be found in meat, plant-based foods, seafood, produce, and table salt
• Water
  Microplastics are present in drinking water, wastewater, fresh water, and marine water
• Air
  Microplastics are present in the air we breathe
• Human body
  Microplastics have been found in human blood, breast milk, saliva, liver, kidneys, and placenta
• Other
  Microplastics can also be found in trash, dust, fabrics, cosmetics, cleaning products, rain, Antarctic sea ice, and agricultural land"

Couldn't get the link to work for some reason so I screenshot the text where I got that from

.

 

[oldbadger]

I never said it wasn't. I do say it's not at the apocalyptic level that the activists are whining about nor will it be.

OK, so you do agree that our climate changes, that the world's glaciers are melting, the great polar ice sheets are reducing, and that sea levels can rise? Well that's a significant step, imo.
As far as your 'apocalyptic' reference goes, try reducing that word down to 'significant', which surely does fit with the climate changes that are being observed around the world.

But if you still want to extract, refine and burn fuel oils, gases, coal and other fossil combustibles, and if it is that which fuels any denial left in you, I don't think that we are ready to ditch all these just yet....we don't have enough alternative energies yet, nor may have for decades to come.

 

[Laniakea]

It first started with the ozone, then global cooling, then it changed again to global warming, now it changed to climate change.

Most certainly a very confused lot whom just cannot make up their minds.

Then they teach this stuff to the kids in school, and wonder why kids end up confused about EVERYthing.

 

[oldbadger]

Antarctica was a tropical paradise 90 mya. No ice. Sea levels were higher. Did earth and life get destroyed?

So you are coming round to it after all? And it sure did.....in Antarctica.

And when seas start to rise again,
you make sure that you're ready to help your coastal neighbours. And get ready for some different and dodgy weather patterns.
But if you want to burn fuel up in your gas guzzler then nobody will stop you just now. OK?

 

[Laniakea]

Quick! Build solar array farms to protect the planet and save the environment! But first, cut down the Joshua trees.
Looks like green energy can't co-exist with nature after all.....

BAKERSFIELD, Calif. (KGET) — A controversial solar energy project is reportedly set to begin this week in the Mojave desert, with the clearing of thousands of Joshua trees.

According to the Los Angeles Times, the “Aratina Solar Project” is being built on 2,300 acres near Boron and Desert Lake, here in Kern County.

https://www.kget.com/news/local-news/joshua-trees-threatened-by-solar-project-in-mojave/#:~:text=(KGET)%20%E2%80%94%20A%20controversial%20solar,Lake%2C%20here%20in%20Kern%20County.

 

[oldbadger]

And the one that surprised me though it shouldn't have, as the temperature of the water rises, it expands and this is actually the cause of much or most of the sea level rise we are already seeing which is already making Florida coast uninsurable.

Already? Wow, it can't be long before all coastal areas become uninsurable for flooding, I guess.
I'm increasing the number of fire extinguishers in our home at present, and installing extra water butts for rain collection, because there's a large overgrown field upwind of our home and if it should catch fire then we are too close to it.

 

[Yerda]

It first started with the ozone, then global cooling, then it changed again to global warming, now it changed to climate change.

Most certainly a very confused lot whom just cannot make up their minds.

A few points to consider:

• The depletion of the ozone and the warming effect of greenhouse gases are two different things. Both can happen at the same time.​

• There was never a scientific consensus that the Earth was cooling:

​

A survey of the scientific literature has found that between 1965 and 1979, 44 scientific papers predicted warming, 20 were neutral and just 7 predicted cooling. So while predictions of cooling got more media attention, the majority of scientists were predicting warming even then. ​

​

Climate myths: They predicted global cooling in the 1970s

In reality, a handful of scientific papers discussed the possibility of an ice age at some point in the future, prompting some pretty sensational media coverage

www.newscientist.com

​

​

It is worth noting that there are papers correctly identifying the cooling effects of pollution particles in the atmosphere. Ironically, if we hadn't pumped the air full of toxic chemicals we'd have experienced a greater warming effect.​

​

• The term "climate change" captures the multiple effects that are associated with the warming of the Earth's atmosphere and oceans on the climate system but it doesn't really matter which word is used to denote the effects because it is the effects that are the issue

Then they teach this stuff to the kids in school, and wonder why kids end up confused about EVERYthing.

Almost all of the confusion I've ever encountered comes from people being deliberately misinformed by paid denial experts and politicians. And of course those who are motivated to reject the science due to the conflict with their ideological commitments. This is what we normally call "motivated reasoning" and is one of the most common sources of reasoning errors and faulty beliefs.

Young people don't seem to be confused about it at all. It's almost always older people who refuse to accept evidence that conflicts with some valued part of their worldview.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The point is in the post.

However no species has ever destroyed, polluted or changed things as much as humans have and are still doing.

Green houses gases have been higher several times. Antarctica was once a tropical paradise(no ice, high sea levels) Earth and life thrived.... Its not bad for earth or much of other life, but its bad for us.

Every species in the homo line before us perished and we will perish too. Unfortunately we will perish by our own hands by trying to make living easier and the consequences that come with that.

I call it the course of nature. People forget that we are nature as well.

Some species survive , some self destruct.

 

[Twilight Hue]

We are not good and special, we are us and we have a survival instinct like any other creature with instincts.
This thread is directed at people who don't want to understand the effects of human caused global warming on all of earth's creatures and what we can do about it to insure all of their survival.

Want to know why it dosent work?

It's because most have not triggered their survival instinct to do something about it.

It's why I maintain that people don't react to someone yelling fire as much as actually seeing the fire for themselves.

Until then it's just going to be more of the same.

 

[Laniakea]

I call it the course of nature. People forget that we are nature as well.

Some species survive , some self destruct.

One thing I've found ironic is how environmentalists mourn the loss of different species, but resist attempts to bring them back. They call it "playing God". But they don't mind the idea of controlling the climate of the entire planet.

 

[Pogo]

Want to know why it dosent work?

It's because most have not triggered their survival instinct to do something about it.

It's why I maintain that people don't react to someone yelling fire as much as actually seeing the fire for themselves.

Until then it's just going to be more of the same.

Well maybe we have moved on from denying it is happening to why should I do anything about it, people deserve it.

Maybe that is progress.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Well maybe we have moved on from denying it is happening to why should I do anything about it, people deserve it.

Maybe that is progress.

Sometimes you have to wait for the consensus to form on its own accord rather than on one's own timetable.

People just don't see the same fire as others do. That's just human nature.

 

[fantome profane]

Sometimes you have to wait for the consensus to form on its own accord rather than on one's own timetable.

People just don't see the same fire as others do. That's just human nature.

There is consensus. There is more consensus on this issue in the scientific community than there is on many issues.

Consensus is never 100% and nobody is waiting for that.

 

[Twilight Hue]

There is consensus. There is more consensus on this issue in the scientific community than there is on many issues.

Consensus is never 100% and nobody is waiting for that.

Then there should be nothing to complain about. If there is adequate concensus, then the problem goes away.

 

[fantome profane]

Then there should be nothing to complain about. If there is adequate concensus, then the problem goes away.

What? No, the problem does not "go away". That is just stupid.

You can have scientific consensus that an asteroid is going to hit the earth, but if no one does anything about it we are still doomed.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What? No, the problem does not "go away". That is just stupid.

You can have scientific consensus that an asteroid is going to hit the earth, but if no one does anything about it we are still doomed.

Do you really think nobody will do anything?

I tend to think just everybody will do something in such a situation.