CarlinKnew
Well-Known Member
If a separate entity, such as the abrahamic god, designed which actions you are able to perform, then your "free will" is limited, and thus, not free.
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If You Didn't Design Yourself, You Don't Have Free Will
- Thread starter CarlinKnew
- Start date
BucephalusBB
ABACABB
limited in what?
CarlinKnew
Well-Known Member
It's imprisoned by the existence that has been created for you. If it was "free" you could choose to perform any action you want.
BucephalusBB
ABACABB
Not is the will is completelly free yet the body it is stuck in isn't..
Edit: my free will might be able to make me fly, but gravity won't let me. Doesn't mean that the free will itself is limited.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
oh you think your smarter then god isee? weare not more smart then god so if you try too undrestand god is imposable! i have frewill becuz i can make choises this is just comin sence!!
CarlinKnew
Well-Known Member
What do you mean "might be able to"? Either it can or it can't. It can't.
BucephalusBB
ABACABB
Pff tried hard to think of an example and couldn't find a good one, so I'll give you a lazy version instead.
Take a computer with windows installed. Now you want to make a screenshot from yourself for the forum. But you have no camera! Your computer is not capable of making a picture for you because it's restricted by not having a camera attached.
However, I can asure you that the operatingsystem is perfectly capable of making the shot if the computer was not "restricted".
Free will is perfectly capable of bringing you up, gravity is your restriction.
CarlinKnew
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Restricted. Not free.
If I had free will, I would have no external restrictions. That is, restrictions placed upon me by a separate entity.
BucephalusBB
ABACABB
By the computer, not by itself.
If this is only about the exterior influences giving restriction, I am sure almost all of us will agree with you..
Just_me_Mike
Well-Known Member
You need to be more specific, because by bringing in the Abrahamic God, you are hurting you position.
It is clear that Pharaoh had NO CHOICE whatsoever when Moses was exiting. In fact God completely took over Pharaoh will and made Pharaoh go after Moses.
This alone tells us the bible does not teach free will. In fact it is only a man made doctrine based of the line "if you believe you will be saved". It is that type of language that people have developed the idea of free will in abrahamic religions.
So try the arguement with other gods.
CarlinKnew
Well-Known Member
If you are created with the capacity to only choose to perform certain actions, you don't have free will, simple as that. If you agree, that's good.
If you don't believe the abrahamic god gave you free will, then your position is compatible with the argument.
Paraprakrti
Custom User
"You" is not designed. Bodies are designed. "You" is simply confined to a particular body for a particular amount of time due to the quality of your thoughts, desires, etc.
Just_me_Mike
Well-Known Member
No kidding, which makes your OP mute. Which is why I said you need to argue with people that believe in free will.
You are the one that included Abrahamic God, you should omit that and rethink the thread.
Or perhaps you wanted just a one-sided argument with the Christians that believe in free will.
I would then ask, why would you want that argument, if it can be shown quickly, just as I did, that free will is not compatible with the bible?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
If that is the case, then all the more reason to damn god for making people just to fill hell with.
Just_me_Mike
Well-Known Member
Ah I see you are an avid student of the bible to make such claims?
The bible does not teach there is going to be a place filled with living souls called hell, that will last forever.
This view differes though from christian to christian. It is a complex topic, and not one to just rush into with guns blazing saying "i got it all figured out"
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I use to be Baptist (from my birth until abou 6 years ago), and to a good number of them, Hell is a very real place that all unrepented souls are eternally damned to.
But to address my point, if we have no free will (and taking in from my own Christian past) it would mean that God makes people who are damned from the moment they are concieved.
One can not have "free will" and still be destined for heaven.
If this mislabelled "Abrahamic" god-entity that is supposedly separate from (me?) (the universe?) (his belly-button?) designed any of my abilities, then I have no "free will" and hence free will cannot be "limited".
Poisonshady313
Well-Known Member
Free will is about decision making, not about having the power to physically manipulate the universe to bend to your desire.
The dictionary entry for will: The mental faculty by which one deliberately chooses or decides upon a course of action.
Being omnipotent isn't a prerequisite for having free will.
The dictionary entry for will: The mental faculty by which one deliberately chooses or decides upon a course of action.
Being omnipotent isn't a prerequisite for having free will.