If you don't believe in out of body experiences.Can you say why?

[Frank Goad]

If you don't believe in out of body experiences.Can you say why?

 

[Orbit]

They are a subjective phenomenon produced by the brain. You're not actually anywhere else.

 

[ChristineM]

If you don't believe in out of body experiences.Can you say why?

They are in the mind.

 

[Nakosis]

If you don't believe in out of body experiences.Can you say why?

I can imagine myself to be anywhere.
I don't know that an OBE is any different.

They should be able to definitely prove otherwise I'd think.
Have someone go OBE and read a series of ten numbers posted 100 miles away or something like that.

 

[Twilight Hue]

If you don't believe in out of body experiences.Can you say why?

Yea. It's a nice fantasy for deprived low oxygen brains.

 

[Ponder This]

If you don't believe in out of body experiences.Can you say why?

They are a subjective phenomenon produced by the brain. You're not actually anywhere else.

They are in the mind.

I can imagine myself to be anywhere.
I don't know that an OBE is any different.

They should be able to definitely prove otherwise I'd think.
Have someone go OBE and read a series of ten numbers posted 100 miles away or something like that.

Yea. It's a nice fantasy for deprived low oxygen brains.

It seems that the main objection is that people lack a means of corroborating the experiences. They don't actually have any evidence that denies the experiences.

 

[ChristineM]

They don't actually have any evidence that denies the experiences.

Bingo

 

[Koldo]

It seems that the main objection is that people lack a means of corroborating the experiences. They don't actually have any evidence that denies the experiences.

Such an evidence is impossible to gather though, but so is the case for any claims of extraordinary power. For instance, imagine that someone claims to be able to perform something extraordinary like flying without any sort of device using only the power of their mind, however this person was never seen flying around. What sort of evidence would prove that this given individual is unable to fly?

 

[Ponder This]

Such an evidence is impossible to gather though, but so is the case for any claims of extraordinary power. For instance, imagine that someone claims to be able to perform something extraordinary like flying without any sort of device using only the power of their mind, however this person was never seen flying around. What sort of evidence would prove that this given individual is unable to fly?

The question isn't whether there is any evidence but rather what it is that you accept as evidence and/or whether you are capable of gathering evidence. If a person makes a claim and that person has a history of being truthful, then that supports his claim. If a person makes a claim and has a history of lying, then this supports the opposing claim. If you know the person and know that person's tells for lying or telling the truth, then observing those tells when the person relates his story is evidence. This is just one possible form of evidence.

Your assertion that it is impossible to gather evidence likely means that you haven't imagined all the ways that evidence might be gathered and/or that you personally lack the capability to gather evidence and are unwilling to rely on other people's ability to gather evidence. It is fine to say that you don't know or that you are personally incapable of knowing or even simply that you don't have evidence, but it is not so fine to state something is absolutely unknowable without a reasonable argument that it is, in fact, absolutely unknowable.

 

[Koldo]

The question isn't whether there is any evidence but rather what it is that you accept as evidence and/or whether you are capable of gathering evidence. If a person makes a claim and that person has a history of being truthful, then that supports his claim. If a person makes a claim and has a history of lying, then this supports the opposing claim. If you know the person and know that person's tells for lying or telling the truth, then observing those tells when the person relates his story is evidence. This is just one possible form of evidence.

Your assertion that it is impossible to gather evidence likely means that you haven't imagined all the ways that evidence might be gathered and/or that you personally lack the capability to gather evidence and are unwilling to rely on other people's ability to gather evidence. It is fine to say that you don't know or that you are personally incapable of knowing or even simply that you don't have evidence, but it is not so fine to state something is absolutely unknowable without a reasonable argument that it is, in fact, absolutely unknowable.

You don't know me personally, but you know me on this forum. I have never lied on this forum. You can search through thousands of my posts and you won't find any single lie. I may have been mistaken about something, like any ordinary person might be once in a while, but you won't find any lie. Meaning I have a history of being truthful. If I were to claim right now that I am able to do something extraordinary, as extraordinary as using the power of my mind to fly, would you believe me?

 

[HonestJoe]

If you don't believe in out of body experiences.Can you say why?

There is no question that the experiences happen, the question is what causes them. There are various mundane psychological or physiological mechanisms which can explain these experiences (or the reporting of them). There is zero evidence for any mechanism behind any of the various "paranormal" explanations some people propose. Even if there are mechanisms we don't (yet) understand, they would be natural by definition, just like all the known natural mechanisms were even before we discovered them.

 

[Ponder This]

You don't know me personally, but you know me on this forum. I have never lied on this forum. You can search through thousands of my posts and you won't find any single lie. I may have been mistaken about something, like any ordinary person might be once in a while, but you won't find any lie. Meaning I have a history of being truthful. If I were to claim right now that I am able to do something extraordinary, as extraordinary as using the power of my mind to fly, would you believe me?

Rather than review your entire history on RF just so that I can get to know you well enough to examine the outcome of a hypothetical scenario involving an imaginary you...
I'll content myself with the fact that you compared OBEs to flying with the power of your mind as an analogy to suggest that evidence was impossible to gather. Since I suspect you believe evidence that you can fly with the power of your mind cannot be gathered, I suspect that you believe there is no evidence that you can fly using the power of your mind, and I further suspect that you believe this because you don't believe that you can fly using the power of your mind. Therefore, if you claimed it, you would probably be lying. Ergo, you probably can't fly using the power of your mind.

...nothing is for certain though...

 

[Koldo]

Rather than review your entire history on RF just so that I can get to know you well enough to examine the outcome of a hypothetical scenario involving an imaginary you...
I'll content myself with the fact that you compared OBEs to flying with the power of your mind as an analogy to suggest that evidence was impossible to gather. Since I suspect you believe evidence that you can fly with the power of your mind cannot be gathered, I suspect that you believe there is no evidence that you can fly using the power of your mind, and I further suspect that you believe this because you don't believe that you can fly using the power of your mind. Therefore, if you claimed it, you would probably be lying. Ergo, you probably can't fly using the power of your mind.

...nothing is for certain though...

1) I didn't say that evidence that one can fly with the power of the mind, nor OBE, can't be gathered.

2) The claim wouldn't be that I can fly with the power of my mind but rather something as extraordinary.

3) You have said that if one has an history of being truthful you consider their word to be evidence. I have an history of being truthful, therefore you would trust my word?

 

[Ponder This]

1) I didn't say that evidence that one can fly with the power of the mind, nor OBE, can't be gathered.

You didn't have to.

2) The claim wouldn't be that I can fly with the power of my mind but rather something as extraordinary.

You want me to examine an analoguous unspecified hypothetical claim based on your opinion of "extraordinary" to avoid my examination of the specific claim that your hypothetical claim would resemble. This is why you shouldn't reason by analogy.

3) You have said that if one has an history of being truthful you consider their word to be evidence. I have an history of being truthful, therefore you would trust my word?

I don't know you and you aren't making a claim. I have made no assessment that you are a truthful poster (or an untruthful one).

 

[Koldo]

You didn't have to.

Yup, because such evidence can be gathered. You most certainly understood I didn't mean otherwise, right?

You want me to examine an analoguous unspecified hypothetical claim based on your opinion of "extraordinary" to avoid my examination of the specific claim that your hypothetical claim would resemble. This is why you shouldn't reason by analogy.

Nope. I don't want you to examine any extraordinary claim. What I want to see is if you actually walk the talk.

I don't know you and you aren't making a claim. I have made no assessment that you are a truthful poster (or an untruthful one).

I am making the (not extraordinary) claim that I am a truthful poster. Do you accept or reject it?

 

[Mock Turtle]

If you don't believe in out of body experiences.Can you say why?

I don't believe in such, and for me personally I have to accept the science that shows this and similar phenomena are just not possible - given that there is no mechanism for such to occur. I have to do this because I'm not in a position to check for myself and it seems there have been sufficient tests done so as to negate the possibility. Given that I tend to trust scientists over those possibly pushing an agenda. For many things one can have an open mind, but when such is down to anecdotal evidence then not so much. And as commented by others, there seems to be ample ways for the mind to deceive itself as to this and other phenomena.

 

[Ponder This]

Yup, because such evidence can be gathered. You most certainly understood I didn't mean otherwise, right?

Such an evidence is impossible to gather though, but so is the case for any claims of extraordinary power. For instance, imagine that someone claims to be able to perform something extraordinary like flying without any sort of device using only the power of their mind, however this person was never seen flying around.

Emphasis added.

Nope. I don't want you to examine any extraordinary claim. What I want to see is if you actually walk the talk.

Such an evidence is impossible to gather though, but so is the case for any claims of extraordinary power. For instance, imagine that someone claims to be able to perform something extraordinary like flying without any sort of device using only the power of their mind, however this person was never seen flying around.

Emphasis added.

I am making the (not extraordinary) claim that I am a truthful poster. Do you accept or reject it?

I don't know you, but considering the path this thread has taken... I decline to answer.

 

[Koldo]

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Emphasis added.

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Emphasis added.



I don't know you, but considering the path this thread has taken... I decline to answer.

You are taking my posts out of context.

When I have said "Such an evidence is impossible to gather though,", what did I mean by 'such an evidence'? What was I talking about?

I was talking about 'evidence that denies the experiences.', the kind that you were referring to in the post I was replying.

And when I have said "because such evidence can be gathered", what evidence was I talking about? Was it the same kind of evidence?

No. I was talking about evidence that affirms the experience: 'evidence that one can fly with the power of the mind'.

It looks like you have got lost in the conversation.

 

[Ponder This]

You are taking my posts out of context.

When I have said "Such an evidence is impossible to gather though,", what did I mean by 'such an evidence'? What was I talking about?

I was talking about 'evidence that denies the experiences.', the kind that you were referring to in the post I was replying.

And when I have said "because such evidence can be gathered", what evidence was I talking about? Was it the same kind of evidence?

No. I was talking about evidence that affirms the experience: 'evidence that one can fly with the power of the mind'.

It looks like you have got lost in the conversation.

Okay. To clarify your position: evidence supporting OBEs can be gathered. Correct?

 

[Koldo]

Okay. To clarify your position: evidence supporting OBEs can be gathered. Correct?

Yes, most certainly.