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In fairness, it should be asked: What is the definition of...

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Sheldon said:
I think you're wrong, since we're exchanging bare subjective opinions.
I was responding to a "bare subjective opinion" about me.

As I was to your bare subjective opinion.

All "gender activists" - and people like you - have done is deny reality,

He said, denying reality. :)

confuse a lot of people

You do seem very confused.

hurt a lot of people

You do seem content to hurt a lot of people, or at least indifferent to it.
and not lowered the rate of suicidality among those in the transgender community.

I just don't believe your bombastic and strident brand of bigotry and prejudice is going to achieve this, call me cynical. ;)
 

Fallen Prophet

Well-Known Member
Boy, some people really are obsessed with how people identify themselves.
You're talking about those people who introduce themselves by saying,

"Hi! My name is [blank] and my pronouns are X and Y."

There are people who are obsessed with how they identify and all they care about is how other people identify themselves.

It is annoying.
It's a new cult.
What's it to you?
It's all pretty ridiculous to me.

All I really care about is that we are all children of God and that if you are citizens of my country - you are my fellow Americans.

I don't care how you identify - just don't try to police speech - revolutionize society to reflect your subjective view of yourselves - supplant science with your dogma - or indoctrinate our children.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
You're talking about those people who introduce themselves by saying,

"Hi! My name is [blank] and my pronouns are X and Y."

They're probably trying to help you out.

I'm talking about people who complain about those people, call them deviants or perverts, spend a lot of time thinking about whether their genitals match their gender and refer to them as "gender activists" in a derogatory manner in an attempt to demonize and marginalize people with very little power. Why do you care so much about other peoples' genitals?

There are people who are obsessed with how they identify and all they care about is how other people identify themselves.
Are they? Or maybe they're just people who'd like to be identified as they see themselves and be treated as equal human beings.

It is annoying.
Oh dear, it must be a giant inconvenience for you.

Do you spend all day bumping into people who are forcing you to call them by their pronouns? Is this a big problem where you come from?
Because I've gotta say, I have yet, in all my 42 years on this planet, to run into this problem. In fact, I'm sure I've walked by on the street or encountered transgender people every day that I had no idea were transgender at all.

It's a new cult.

Really? How so?

Definition of cult

1: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious (see SPURIOUS sense 2)also : its body of adherentsthe voodoo culta satanic cult
2a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (such as a film or book)criticizing how the media promotes the cult of celebrityespecially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b: the object of such devotion
c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotionthe singer's cult of fansThe film has a cult following.
3: a system of religious beliefs and ritualalso : its body of adherentsthe cult of Apollo
4: formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
5: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator

Definition of CULT

It's all pretty ridiculous to me.
People used to think it was ridiculous that women wanted the right to vote. They always complained about how annoying it is that we want to have our own voices heard. In fact, people got so annoyed with us trying to get the right to vote that they'd lock us up in mental asylums in an attempt to shut us up. All we really wanted was to be treated with equality and dignity. So annoying!

All I really care about is that we are all children of God and that if you are citizens of my country - you are my fellow Americans.
God created transgendered people too, apparently.

I don't care how you identify - just don't try to police speech - revolutionize society to reflect your subjective view of yourselves
Your numerous posts on this thread alone demonstrate how much you really do care how people identify.
- supplant science with your dogma -
Huh? Who's doing that?

or indoctrinate our children.
Who is doing that and how? I hope you're not just being hyperbolic here.
 

Fallen Prophet

Well-Known Member
They're probably trying to help you out.
Perhaps that is what they have convinced themselves they are doing - but in reality they are not.

In reality - they are passive-aggressively (and sometimes active-aggressively - remember the, "Its ma'am!" video taken at the Gamestop?) trying to get me to accept their ideology - an ideology I do not agree with or accept - and they are also trying to get me to validate their own subjective perception of themselves.

Pronouns have always been decided by biology - not "social constructs" - which is why the Australian guy in Jurassic Park kept shouting, "Shoot her!" when that female raptor grabbed that guy.

The only pronoun based on a "social construct" that I can think of is the majestic plural such as the "royal we".

Otherwise - the pronoun used to describe a person has always been based on their biology.
I'm talking about people who complain about those people, call them deviants or perverts, spend a lot of time thinking about whether their genitals match their gender and refer to them as "gender activists" in a derogatory manner in an attempt to demonize and marginalize people with very little power.
Hmmm - a couple of things to unpack here.

1.) It is totally possible to "complain" about a person - what they espouse and what they do - without caring at all about their genitals.

2.) I do not believe that every person who is a "gender activist", or who have "gender dysphoria" or who are "transgender" are "deviants and perverts".

However - there are many people who can be found in those categories that are - and it isn't because of what they believe, or what condition they may have or what they have done to their body - but because of the things that they do.

There are a lot of people out there who are "grooming" children - for example - and they do so - not necessarily because they are pedophiles or anything (although many of them likely are) - but because they want to indoctrinate children to their way of thinking. Their way of life.

This is why Governor DeSantis did what he did in Florida - to curtail this deviancy and perversion.

3.) Considering that "gender" is a "social construct" - meaning that it is a thing that does not exist in objective reality - but is an idea created through human interaction - it is impossible for someone's genitals to "match their gender" - because a person's genitals exist in objective reality.

It's like how we can change the borders on a map to make Tibet a sovereign nation (social construct) but that doesn't mean we can move the Himalayans to make Tibet more accessible (objective reality).

Therefore - a person who is born with a penis - for example - can identify as anything he wants - but his genitals cannot "match" any of the infinite number of "genders" he may choose to identify with - because they were decided at the moment of his conception.

Understand?

4.) It is true that I wish to "marginalize" and "demonize" the "gender activists" - but to be clear this is not a description of any particular group of people - but rather an ideology - or to be more precise the harmful things done due to the spread of an ideology.

For example - I would contend that it is appropriate to "marginalize" and "demonize" the KKK and jihadi terrorists - because these are groups of people who espouse radical ideologies - based on their extreme interpretations of their religions - and do harmful things.

This does not mean that I want to "marginalize" or "demonize" Christians and Muslims - but rather those who use those belief systems to spread disinformation, hate and violence.

Not everyone who suffers from "gender dysphoria" or who identifies as "transgender" or any other kind of "gender" is necessarily a "gender activist".

And - to be clear - these "gender activists" have a lot of power in the West - no one can say otherwise.
Why do you care so much about other peoples' genitals?
I don't care at all.

All I care about is the "gender activist's" efforts to police speech, revolutionize society to reflect their ideology, supplant science with their dogma and indoctrinate our children.
Are they?
Yes - there are many people that are like this.

In Florida - for example - many teachers are being fired because they can't stop talking about this with their students.
Or maybe they're just people who'd like to be identified as they see themselves and be treated as equal human beings.
Well....

No one has the right to force other people to treat them a certain way based on how they self-identify.

For example - I remember the story about the older man who decided that he was a six-year-old girl - so he left his wife and kids and was "adopted" by a couple, and he dressed and acted like a little girl and would often play with little children.

No one has the right to force anyone to treat that middle-aged man as if he were an actual little girl.

And no one who treats this middle-aged man as a middle-aged man would be denying him his humanity.

My unwillingness to let me children play with this full-grown man doesn't deny him anything.

People can identify as whatever they want - but no one has to agree with them or treat them as they demand to be treated.

Funny thing about that guy I mentioned - he talked about how he was still employed as a long-distance truck driver and how he would engage with other grown men for "dress up" and sex parties.

Which makes me ask - six-year-olds aren't allowed to drive - nor can they be legally employed - and they definitely shouldn't be hanging out and having sex with men.

So - does he really identify as a six-year-old girl or is he just escaping into only the supposed "perks" of a new identity?
Oh dear, it must be a giant inconvenience for you.
Not only inconvenient things are annoying.
Do you spend all day bumping into people who are forcing you to call them by their pronouns? Is this a big problem where you come from?
So - you are admitting that it would be a problem.
Because I've gotta say, I have yet, in all my 42 years on this planet, to run into this problem. In fact, I'm sure I've walked by on the street or encountered transgender people every day that I had no idea were transgender at all.
Thank you for again admitting that that would be a problem.

Also - why do you assume that your personal experiences have any relevance to my own?
Really? How so?
You just shared a definition - not much more for me to say.

The Alphabet People are a new religion - with their own ideology - and they are always looking for converts.
People used to think it was ridiculous that women wanted the right to vote.
Yes - the majority of women in the United States thought so.

They didn't want to have to sign up for the draft, fire brigade, jury duty, etc - all that "debt to society" stuff that men had to sign up for in order to vote.

So - the men of that era gave them their cake and let them eat it too - all the benefits of voting - but none of the drawbacks.

I still believe that women should not be allowed to vote today - not until they are forced to sign up for Selective Service - like men.

I believe in actual equality.
They always complained about how annoying it is that we want to have our own voices heard.
Being the main driving force in the mind's of all men wasn't enough?
In fact, people got so annoyed with us trying to get the right to vote that they'd lock us up in mental asylums in an attempt to shut us up.
Yeah - that kinda stuff happened to a lot of people - men and women. It was a really scary time.
All we really wanted was to be treated with equality and dignity. So annoying!
No - you wanted all the pros and none of the cons.

Sign up for Selective Service before spouting off about "equality".
God created transgendered people too, apparently.!
I believe that God created all people - but He is not responsible for the decisions they make.
Your numerous posts on this thread alone demonstrate how much you really do care how people identify.
Really? Which ones are you referring to specifically?
Huh? Who's doing that?
"Gender activists"
Who is doing that and how?
I already mentioned the example of Florida - but it is happening all across the United States and the West.

Florida is just the first State to start fighting back against it.
I hope you're not just being hyperbolic here.
Sadly, I am not - it is literally happening.
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Perhaps that is what they have convinced themselves they are doing - but in reality they are not.

In reality - they are passive-aggressively (and sometimes active-aggressively - remember the, "Its ma'am!" video taken at the Gamestop?) trying to get me to accept their ideology - an ideology I do not agree with or accept - and they are also trying to get me to validate their own subjective perception of themselves.

Oh, they are? It's amazing that you have such mind reading abilities, that you can tell that much about what people are thinking.

Pronouns have always been decided by biology - not "social constructs" - which is why the Australian guy in Jurassic Park kept shouting, "Shoot her!" when that female raptor grabbed that guy.

I don't care about what has "always" been. If I were going by that, I wouldn't be considered a citizen with voting and property rights.

"Shoot her" is a statement about an animal's biological make-up. Not about gender.

The only pronoun based on a "social construct" that I can think of is the majestic plural such as the "royal we".

Otherwise - the pronoun used to describe a person has always been based on their biology.

Has it? Who cares?

Hmmm - a couple of things to unpack here.

1.) It is totally possible to "complain" about a person - what they espouse and what they do - without caring at all about their genitals.

It is, but that's not what you're doing here.

2.) I do not believe that every person who is a "gender activist", or who have "gender dysphoria" or who are "transgender" are "deviants and perverts".

However - there are many people who can be found in those categories that are - and it isn't because of what they believe, or what condition they may have or what they have done to their body - but because of the things that they do.

What are the "things that they do" that you think makes them deviants and perverts?

You can find perverts and deviants in any category of people. They're not like, a prerequisite for being trans or something.

There are a lot of people out there who are "grooming" children - for example - and they do so - not necessarily because they are pedophiles or anything (although many of them likely are) - but because they want to indoctrinate children to their way of thinking. Their way of life.

How do you think people "want to indoctrinate children to their way of thinking?" How are they doing this? Where? I'm seeing a lot of claims of "indoctrination" and "grooming" from people such as yourself, and I'm starting to think you don't know what either of those words actually mean.

Now you're claiming that many transgender people are likely pedophiles?

This is why Governor DeSantis did what he did in Florida - to curtail this deviancy and perversion.

Yeah, the "don't say gay bill" is ridiculous. My cousin is married to a woman, and they have a daughter. Under this "don't say gay" crap, that little girls' family structure isn't allowed to be mentioned in class. So she gets to be ignored, marginalized and made to think something is wrong with her parents? That's much more disgusting to me than letting kids know that gay people exist. What if one of the kids in the class is gay?

This is further evidence to me that you don't have any idea what indoctrination or grooming actually are. Teaching kids that gay people exist is neither of those things.

3.) Considering that "gender" is a "social construct" - meaning that it is a thing that does not exist in objective reality - but is an idea created through human interaction - it is impossible for someone's genitals to "match their gender" - because a person's genitals exist in objective reality.

It's like how we can change the borders on a map to make Tibet a sovereign nation (social construct) but that doesn't mean we can move the Himalayans to make Tibet more accessible (objective reality).

The human being exists in objective reality.

Therefore - a person who is born with a penis - for example - can identify as anything he wants - but his genitals cannot "match" any of the infinite number of "genders" he may choose to identify with - because they were decided at the moment of his conception.

Why do you care so much about what genitals a person has? There is so much more to being a human being than just having genitals. This is bizarre to me.

This also completely ignores the reality of intersex people.

Understand?

Yes, I understand that you are obssesed with peoples' genitals. And you want to claim trans people are perverted deviants? LOL
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
4.) It is true that I wish to "marginalize" and "demonize" the "gender activists" - but to be clear this is not a description of any particular group of people - but rather an ideology - or to be more precise the harmful things done due to the spread of an ideology.

What harmful things are done by accepting the idea that there trans people exist and are human beings deserving of the same respect and dignity as every other human being?

For example - I would contend that it is appropriate to "marginalize" and "demonize" the KKK and jihadi terrorists - because these are groups of people who espouse radical ideologies - based on their extreme interpretations of their religions - and do harmful things.

This does not mean that I want to "marginalize" or "demonize" Christians and Muslims - but rather those who use those belief systems to spread disinformation, hate and violence.

They actually harm people. They marginalize and demonize people because they don't like who they are. Hmm, that sounds familiar ...

Not everyone who suffers from "gender dysphoria" or who identifies as "transgender" or any other kind of "gender" is necessarily a "gender activist".

And - to be clear - these "gender activists" have a lot of power in the West - no one can say otherwise.

Who are they and why do you think they have all this power? Because from where I sit, they have very little power and have only recently found their voice.

I don't care at all.

All I care about is the "gender activist's" efforts to police speech, revolutionize society to reflect their ideology, supplant science with their dogma and indoctrinate our children.

Yes - there are many people that are like this.

Please. You seem to think that somebody coming up to you and saying "Hi, I'm Eric, my pronouns are he/him" is some sort of policing of speech.

What do you think their "dogma" is?

In Florida - for example - many teachers are being fired because they can't stop talking about this with their students.

Which is ridiculous. Florida sounds like a very backward place.

Well....

No one has the right to force other people to treat them a certain way based on how they self-identify.

Who is forcing you to do anything? It sounds to me like people are being forced to avoid reality - that transgender people exist.

For example - I remember the story about the older man who decided that he was a six-year-old girl - so he left his wife and kids and was "adopted" by a couple, and he dressed and acted like a little girl and would often play with little children.

No one has the right to force anyone to treat that middle-aged man as if he were an actual little girl.

And no one who treats this middle-aged man as a middle-aged man would be denying him his humanity.

My unwillingness to let me children play with this full-grown man doesn't deny him anything.

Who is being forced to do anything? Where?

People can identify as whatever they want - but no one has to agree with them or treat them as they demand to be treated.

They just want to be treated as the human beings they are.

Funny thing about that guy I mentioned - he talked about how he was still employed as a long-distance truck driver and how he would engage with other grown men for "dress up" and sex parties.

Which makes me ask - six-year-olds aren't allowed to drive - nor can they be legally employed - and they definitely shouldn't be hanging out and having sex with men.

So - does he really identify as a six-year-old girl or is he just escaping into only the supposed "perks" of a new identity?

What you are describing is a sexual fetish. Not the same thing.

Not only inconvenient things are annoying.

So - you are admitting that it would be a problem.

Thank you for again admitting that that would be a problem.

It's not a problem at all, in my opinion. That was sarcasm.

Also - why do you assume that your personal experiences have any relevance to my own?

Because your experience is probably much the same. I bet you've encountered trans people where you had no idea they were even trans at all.

You just shared a definition - not much more for me to say.

You could explain how your claim that transgenderism is cult-like by juxtaposing it with the actual definition of the word "cult."

The Alphabet People are a new religion - with their own ideology - and they are always looking for converts.

What?

Yes - the majority of women in the United States thought so.

They didn't want to have to sign up for the draft, fire brigade, jury duty, etc - all that "debt to society" stuff that men had to sign up for in order to vote.

So - the men of that era gave them their cake and let them eat it too - all the benefits of voting - but none of the drawbacks.

I still believe that women should not be allowed to vote today - not until they are forced to sign up for Selective Service - like men

I believe in actual equality.

.

LOL Well golly gee! You guys let us have our cake and eat it too? Thank you master!
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I'm willing to bet you're one of those people who complained that they made the military soft when they started letting women join.

I mean, you literally just said that men allowed us this and that and then went on to blame women for not participating in the things men didn't allow us to participate in.

I wonder who voted on whether women were allowed to serve or not ... hmmmm ...

Being the main driving force in the mind's of all men wasn't enough?

What?

Yeah - that kinda stuff happened to a lot of people - men and women. It was a really scary time.

Mostly women. Because men still had authority over us. A lot of them didn't like it too much when we expressed views that didn't match theirs.

No - you wanted all the pros and none of the cons.

LOL

Sign up for Selective Service before spouting off about "equality".

Men wouldn't let us join that either.

I believe that God created all people - but He is not responsible for the decisions they make.

Transgenderism isn't a "decision" one makes. Like it or not, this God you worship created these people.

Really? Which ones are you referring to specifically?

Most of them. This one.

"Gender activists"

I already mentioned the example of Florida - but it is happening all across the United States and the West.

Florida is just the first State to start fighting back against it.

Sadly, I am not - it is literally happening.

Floridian leaders are engaging in culture war nonsense. It's all Republican seem to have at this point. They certainly don't have an actual platform and they certainly aren't concerned about things that actually effect peoples' lives .Instead, they spend their time picking on minorities who have no power. How does any of this nonsense actually improve anyone's life?
 
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