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In the Beginning...of What?

Grandliseur

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
Skwim said:
Kind of like god's residence on the star / planet Kolob?

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I posted my link to my study on planets inhabited from scriptural indications. Perhaps, you might want to see it? If you do, here it is:
link: Other inhabited worlds, planets

If you read the letter to the Hebrews, we see that the earthly temple was a model of what exists in the heavens. From the orientation of the things found on / in the pyramids, I wouldn't be surprised if this location is in Orion. (Or, is my memory falty?!) Seems the fallen angels were obsessed with this location.

The way I imagine it is a temple constructed not on a planet or near a star, but somewhere in space outside any solar system. We might never ever get to know.
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
URAVIP2ME said:
First, God created the heaven(s), so we have a spirit heavens, and the mid-heavens where the birds fly, besides outer space. God's home is heaven as per 1 Kings 8:39,49 meaning residing in the 'spirit heavens' which would be a realm independent of the material universe. Basically I find Genesis is about getting Earth ready for mankind to inhabit Earth. So, Genesis is Not so much dealing about matter or the material universe, but how Earth was arranged and prepared for us. To me, the beginning of the universe would be the beginning or the start of a permanent material/physical realm of existence for us.
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Ok, so heaven, singular, is not to be found by observation. Why are we to assume this story is observable? I'm suggesting that God could have interfered with an existing universe and created a parallel Biblical word the coexisted in part until the fall. This may have allowed for the race of Adam to inhabit the earth.
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Brickjectivity said:
It is repeatedly talking about separating A and B -- seas from clouds, Adam from the garden, Enoch from other people, Noah from other people, Abraham from Ur, Isaac from Ishmael, Jacob from Laban, Joseph from his brothers, on and on. Older and younger sons. It all leads to Israel separating from Egypt which launches into Israel's separation from all kinds of other things.
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I understand. Ours is a realm of dualities. Light and dark, land and sea, Eden and the rest of the world, night and day, man and women, heaven and earth. Why are all of these differences tangible and not heaven?
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
dfnj said:
Reality is a delusion, we do not exist, therefore, God does not exist. Nothingness is a cool breeze on a summer's day.

In speaking the word the observer and what is being observed become one. When we are one we have meaning. Nobody understands anything without God's permission.

Somewhere between the expansion of consciousness and the contraction of focus what is real becomes imaginary and what is imaginary becomes real.

Wow, really good drugs.
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I think I need God's permission to understand this post. ;)
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Aupmanyav said:
Wrong. There is no beginning. Whether it is material (samsara) or void (shunya), or sometime one and at another time the other, it is eternal.
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Apparently, within the Biblical story, there was a beginning. I'm trying g to get a better grasp as to just what it was the beginning of.
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Grandliseur said:
I posted my link to my study on planets inhabited from scriptural indications. Perhaps, you might want to see it? If you do, here it is:
link: Other inhabited worlds, planets

If you read the letter to the Hebrews, we see that the earthly temple was a model of what exists in the heavens. From the orientation of the things found on / in the pyramids, I wouldn't be surprised if this location is in Orion. (Or, is my memory falty?!) Seems the fallen angels were obsessed with this location.

The way I imagine it is a temple constructed not on a planet or near a star, but somewhere in space outside any solar system. We might never ever get to know.
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Ok now we're get n somewhere. An alternate universe ie. the a Biblical world.
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Clear said:
Hi Sandy Whitelinger, I like this question.

The early Judeo-Christian doctrine that matter existed prior to creation and thus God created by organizing out of pre-existing, chaotic material, is, I think more rational and logical and more in tune with science as opposed to the modern theory of magical creation from "nothing" that was made popular by later theologians and adopted by the later Christian movements.


Regarding your question about Genesis 1:1 :
In the early Judeo-Christian descriptions, the interpretation did NOT refer to the creation of all things, but instead referred to a specific process of creation.

Frank Cross (of DDS) concludes that it was the ex nihilo creation tradition itself which prompted the 1600's era translation of Gen. 1:1 found in the King James and similar versions. Other versions of the Bible have noticed the forcing within the translation and have NOT followed the wording of the King James. For example, according to The Interpreter's Bible, the Hebrew bere' sit would more properly be rendered "In the beginning OF" creation rather than simply "In the beginning."

There is no definite article in the Masoretic Hebrew in this phrase. And, some bibles are starting to reflect this reality.

E.A. Speiser translates Gen 1:1 "When God set about to create heaven and earth, the world being then a formless waste. ." or, as Cross renders it "When God began to create the heaven and the earth, then God said, 'Let there be light.'" Thus the traditional translation of Gen. 1:1 as an independent statement, implying that God first created matter out of nothing, and then (verse 2.) proceeded to fashion the world from that raw material, is now widely questioned, and several relatively recent translations have adopted the approach advocated by Speiser and Cross.

Spieser, who translated Gen 1:1 as above, then adds: "The question, however, is not the ultimate truth about cosmogony, but only the exact meaning of the Genesis passages which deal with the subject.. . . At all events, the text should be allowed to speak for itself."

Other modern versions which incorporate this usage include The New Jewish Version : "When God began to create the heaven and the earth, the earth being unformed and void. . . ."; similarly The Bible, An American Translation (1931); The Westminster Study Edition of the Holy Bible (1948); Moffat's translation (1935); and the Revised Standard Version (RSV), alternate reading, Stones Chumash (a midrashich distillation) follows the new wording, etc.

My point is that the Hebrew of Genesis 1:1 has long been seen as faulty, but there has been little contextual framework (or motive) for translators to change it. As scholars became more aware of the historical incongruence of magical creation from "nothing" in the framework of early Judeo-Christian literature (which is more consistent with creation from prior matter), then the translation had sufficient supporting motivation for translators (who are often not sharing the same data stream as historians) to change it.

Any way. I liked your question and think a return to the earlier Judeo-Christian model of creation from matter is more logical and more rational.

Good Journey to you Sandy

Clear
ειφιφυω
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Very informative. I've said it before and I'll say it again, why can't I have an original idea?

And thank you for the blessing for my journey. After all, the journey is on the way to where I'm going...
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
idav said:
When that stuff was written people likely thought there was only earth and sky meant heaven. Planets were discovered as observable phenomenon described as “wandering stars” but I am not sure the writers of Genesis were privy to that info.
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Im only trying to figure out what the text says. For me this means filtering out people's notions that have been accepted for centuries now. Call it a critical eye mixed with an inquiring mind that accepts nothing at face value.
A preacher once said, "It amazing how this here Bible sheds a lot of light on these commentaries."
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Grandliseur said:
Well, it kinds of explains itself by saying, 'in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth'. This refers then to when God began creating the physical realm.

There is another beginning that begins prior to the physical realms creation. In Micah we read:
Micah 5: 2 But thou, Beth-lehem Ephrathah, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall one come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting. ASV
2 Thou, therefore, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though, little, to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee, shall Mine come forth, to be ruler in Israel,—whose comings forth, have been from of old, from the days of age-past time. (Rotherham)
And, Proverbs where Wisdom personified refers to our Jesus before he came to earth:
Prov 8:
22 Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of his way, Before his works of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, Before the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth, When there were no fountains abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills was I brought forth; 26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, Nor the beginning of the dust of the world. 27 When he established the heavens, I was there: When he set a circle upon the face of the deep, 28 When he made firm the skies above, When the fountains of the deep became strong, 29 When he gave to the sea its bound, That the waters should not transgress his commandment, When he marked out the foundations of the earth; 30 Then I was by him, as a master workman; And I was daily his delight, Rejoicing always before him, 31 Rejoicing in his habitable earth; And my delight was with the sons of men.​
From this we know that God began his creative works by creating our Lord Jesus. After that, obviously he created the angels, BUT !

From this point we are told that all things God created were created by means and through Jesus. In this way, Jesus is the only begotten first born of all beings and things.

So, the beginning refers to when God created Jesus, the angels, the physical universe we live in, and the earth - and in that order of sequence though the earth of course has been created fairly late in the scope of things if scientists have the ages correct when speaking of the age of the universe and earth. Even now, things in the heavens are not static.
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Sounds very Taoist. In the beginning was the great void which gave rise to the supreme ultimate which gave rise to the ten thousand things.

I have no problem with the concept (well maybe the whole void thing being inconprehesible but I love to ponder a conundrum). It sounds quite Biblical to me.
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
David T said:
it means in the begining. Based on genisis 1. There you go.

The story is all about the fall of man.. The remainder is to set the stage. So you are focused on the opening pan shot and there is no dialog as of yet. That's the specific of this story.

Creationism is totally lost in the pan shot.
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Bingo! In the beginning. Face value.
Now, the next words, God created the heaven (singular in the English) and the earth. Where's heaven?
 
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