In the Beginning...

[sandy whitelinger]

Aha ha...... now I am starting to see what you are up to........ I have to admit that both I am my father the devil are impressed........!

What am I up to? I'm trying to feather put the first verse of the KJV.

 

[sayak83]

He needed heaven and earth so He could put something between them?

No. I mean by heaven here is meant the sky with stars, sun etc.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No. I mean by heaven here is meant the sky with stars, sun etc.

In the KJV that's not the case. The firmament of heaven was created afterward to separate the heaven of 1:1 from the earth. The celestial bodies are there.

 

[Grandliseur]

...God created the heaven and the earth.

Why did He create heaven I wonder. Was He homeless. Why wasn't where He was at good enough? This is assuming that Heaven is God's command center and senior living residence for the saints. Wasn't where He was before He created heaven and earth good enough for us?

*a whacky question but legitimate I think. Inquiring minds want to know.

Your question belongs to the realm of the unknown; so, all I can give you is supposition.

Have you ever been on a big ship, above you might have the car decks, the restaurants where you can enjoy just coffee, or food, various types of shops for candy and newspapers, and then the decks for viewing the scenery. Every deck has its purpose, some more glorious than others. If then you go down to the engine rooms, if you ever were permitted this, there the huge engines, the mechanisms for various utilities, and what not. It is noisy, it is busy, and not very glorious.

We are told that the heavens declare the glory of God and does the earth, even in regard to man and woman, we are shown that the weaker vessel, the woman is given more glory than man, again kind of demonstrating where and why glory is given. If then the reality of God is one of power and functionality, just speculating, this may not express the glory of God as the universe with the huge number of galaxies, stars, planets, and nebulae does, or as the earth with its huge number of complex lifeforms does.

As an artist, the picture in his mind - must have an expression to be appreciated by others. Similarly, God wanted others to enjoy his artistry, his creations.

 

[sayak83]

In the KJV that's not the case. The firmament of heaven was created afterward to separate the heaven of 1:1 from the earth. The celestial bodies are there.

Who cares about KJV?

The first sentence is more of a summary of what Genesis 1 is about.

 

[savagewind]

...God created the heaven and the earth.

Why did He create heaven I wonder. Was He homeless. Why wasn't where He was at good enough? This is assuming that Heaven is God's command center and senior living residence for the saints. Wasn't where He was before He created heaven and earth good enough for us?

*a whacky question but legitimate I think. Inquiring minds want to know.

God is love. Love requires something to love.

How can before God created be good enough for "us"? There was no us. It is my opinion that there existed nothing but the love of a father for a son but the son did not even exist yet. It is written that the son appeared first. Then, everything else was created for him and with him.

 

[DennisTate]

What am I up to? I'm trying to feather put the first verse of the KJV.

Ok... now that we are on page two of your discussion... I assume that your expectations lower a little......

Genesis 1:1 =

Jesus hesitated as I tried to capture the immensity of his explanations.

"You must understand, my son, that original creation mirrored the composition and perfection of Person-God. All creation vibrated in unison with us! There was total accord and harmony everywhere as the whole creation was resonating with and in God!

"Each separate thing or being thus carried out an appointed task in our scheme for the universe. A heaven-form of music resulted as even the stars sang in their appointed circuits. Here in paradise you are hearing these melodious vibrations directly upon your new mind, undistorted. On Earth you heard distorted sounds through the air waves. Throughout heaven the music flows from my throne, uninterrupted, undefiled, and peace-giving."

but.. before Genesis 1:2... the following happened:

Jesus paused again.

"My book tells of the time when Lucifer's rebellion in heaven changed some things. He sought to usurp my Father's throne, assume his position as the most high God, and to rule the universe. For that blasphemy Lucifer was cast from heaven to Earth; in fact, I saw him fall as a bolt of lightning! In a tantrum of hate and rage over being deposed so fast he and his fallen angels disfigured our perfect Earth. It became void and uninhabitable. For punishment befitting his enemy of God, Lucifer was given a new name, Satan, since he was the self-appointed 'adversary' of the Almighty. Anything that God had made, Satan would attempt to destroy from then on. As Lucifer he had been created the highest angel about the throne, one of his assignments and talents being the chief musician in charge of worship and music. In his rebellious anger he set about destroying harmony on and in the Earth from then on. That is why the Earth where he operates now is out of harmony with God's other creations. In my book we call this disharmony 'sin', because it defies God's will that even the heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament show his handiwork.

"But be of good cheer, my son. The Father has permitted me to overcome Satan's world system of sin, and to destroy the works of Satan, and to re-establish righteousness in the hearts of my friends. Eventually in his chosen time he will restore all creation as it once was, in him!"

Dr. Richard Eby's Near-Death Experience and the Second Coming of Christ

Rev 12:4

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

 

[David T]

Actually.... it is a good question....
because all that existed nearly infinite time ago was fundamental energy.......
that I think are in two forms.......
Super Strings.... and Super Waves.......
and everything that exists in the universe / multiverse is ultimately composed of
Super Strings and Super Waves. that G-d forms into more and more complex......
and less and less energetic forms........

.......(I think)........
and one near death experience saw what these Super Strings and Super Waves look like.....
and behave like.......
and uhhhhhhhhhh......
The Ancient of Days the Father and The Ancient of Days the Mother....(who near death experiencer
Christian Andreason felt was G-d the Mother / The Holy Spirit).......
they grew up in one seriously tough and seriously scary neighbourhood...........

Near infinity is totally contrived to make math work a particular way to arrive at a particular conclusion. Since the conclusion is derived from a base assumption that math has magical powers near infinity is a false assumption.

 

[David T]

God is love. Love requires something to love.

How can before God created be good enough for "us"? There was no us. It is my opinion that there existed nothing but the love of a father for a son but the son did not even exist yet. It is written that the son appeared first. Then, everything else was created for him and with him.

I like the love part... The rest is normal. Dead is an interesting problem for normal folks. Ya all have a text mocking death, as a something that happens to us yet here we are today with death as an occurrence that happens to us very consistent to modern science with different conclusions.

In context to death as a something that happens to us your interpretation of the text is completely normal and aligned to modern science.

 

[David T]

...God created the heaven and the earth.

Why did He create heaven I wonder. Was He homeless. Why wasn't where He was at good enough? This is assuming that Heaven is God's command center and senior living residence for the saints. Wasn't where He was before He created heaven and earth good enough for us?

*a whacky question but legitimate I think. Inquiring minds want to know.

The question really is, is the bible some ancient science text , talking about causality? Now we could "believe" that. We could have what we "believe" be affirmed by an observation of religion itself today. But I would question that assumption based on basic science. Since basic child like application of science to the question is the text a science text is not applied it is automatically assumed like religion it is. It's outdated science from an atheist view its relevant science to a believer. I see no difference between the two. Thus the original question is a symptom not an actual question.

 

[DennisTate]

Near infinity is totally contrived to make math work a particular way to arrive at a particular conclusion. Since the conclusion is derived from a base assumption that math has magical powers near infinity is a false assumption.

But another way of looking at this is that fundamental energy in their original form......(which I assume is Super Strings and Super Waves)....... there was a time when this fundamental energy had not yet been formed into more and more complex..... but less and less energetic forms........

If M-Theory is true (but personally I lean heavily toward Bosonic because there is evidence for more than eleven dimenions)..... but if there were only eleven dimensions..... then there was a time before tenth dimensional life forms were formed........... then later on ninth dimensional space - time forms would be made.........

In the tenth and ninth dimensions....... we might be talking about The Holy Spirit and the Elohim.......

At the time of Dr. George Ritchie.... the eighth dimensional space - time may have looked like:


Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience

f. His Vision of the Heavenly City

Ritchie is then taken into outer space toward a distant city made of brilliant light - similar in description to the heavenly city in the Book of Revelation (see also Revelation 21:10-27.) This is the place where people go who have become like Jesus while on Earth - a place where love is the dominant focus of life. This is heaven he realizes; but he is not allowed to enter it. Instead, Jesus shows him the future of Earth and is told to return to his physical body. At this point, Ritchie is revived from death.

If Dr. George Ritchie had been Jewish rather than a Christian... he might have met Moses or Elijah or Rabbi Nachman or perhaps the Baal Shem Tov in eighth dimensional space - time..... that would be my guess.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Sigh. My thread is in tatters.

 

[David T]

But another way of looking at this is that fundamental energy in their original form......(which I assume is Super Strings and Super Waves)....... there was a time when this fundamental energy had not yet been formed into more and more complex..... but less and less energetic forms........

If M-Theory is true (but personally I lean heavily toward Bosonic because there is evidence for more than eleven dimenions)..... but if there were only eleven dimensions..... then there was a time before tenth dimensional life forms were formed........... then later on ninth dimensional space - time forms would be made.........

In the tenth and ninth dimensions....... we might be talking about The Holy Spirit and the Elohim.......

At the time of Dr. George Ritchie.... the eighth dimensional space - time may have looked like:


Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience



If Dr. George Ritchie had been Jewish rather than a Christian... he might have met Moses or Elijah or Rabbi Nachman or perhaps the Baal Shem Tov in eighth dimensional space - time..... that would be my guess.

Causality is dependent on the observer creating a gap between this and that. Thus it isn't real but a way of cleaving this and that apart. It has to be rendered instantly dead to do that. We then end up with a triplet of this that and the observer in separation from each other. Even darwins own gap narrative itself from that which says interconnected is a very funny type of gap. Btw he said survival of the fittest I would say extinction of the dumbest by simple elimination over time evolve no because of us but in spite of ourselves. Darwin is no longer valid in science. Their scientific foundational narrative Survival of the fittest has not survived at all its extinct in science. Maybe natural selection is next!!!

 

[Mindmaster]

I hate it when I hear other people thought up this cool *hit before me. I'm so unoriginal.

Hehe, goes with the whole theological/spiritual territory. Anyway, I find it mostly interesting that other than the theological concepts past the origin, the Kabbalists and the scientists completely agree. (Big bang versus the "Contraction", etc...)

 

[DennisTate]

Causality is dependent on the observer creating a gap between this and that. Thus it isn't real but a way of cleaving this and that apart. It has to be rendered instantly dead to do that. We then end up with a triplet of this that and the observer in separation from each other. Even darwins own gap narrative itself from that which says interconnected is a very funny type of gap. Btw he said survival of the fittest I would say extinction of the dumbest by simple elimination over time evolve no because of us but in spite of ourselves. Darwin is no longer valid in science. Their scientific foundational narrative Survival of the fittest has not survived at all its extinct in science. Maybe natural selection is next!!!

Wow!!!!!!!

By this do you partly mean that since time itself is an invention.........
that I think is like a vehicle that is used to transport "others / Others" from point A to point B
mentally, emotionally and spiritually.....
then since time in a sense does not really exist..... then our tendency to break down time into pieces that we hope to be able to understand better......


.... is automatically rather inaccurate.... in comparison to the ultimate truth of what really happened?

 

[David T]

Interesting. What does death have to do with it?

I think death can be correlated with love. We live on one planet. To die is to make room for another person. Yes? But, we do not know the natural death.

Christianity is all about death regardless. I will always attack theology as absurd childish nonsense coequal to atheism . But why do I do that? Because the Christian story is the most beautiful ever. It cannot be interpreted without killing it, it can only be realized. It's not about nature, it nature manifesting into man. Nature very very very big, man very very very small. Someday we will argue who has the most beautiful story... My vote Christianity, not for its theological nonsense but INSPITE of its theological nonsense, it's text transcends its intellectalizing it. Church, by definition is that which is over run by intelligent normal folks a great weakness of church and dangerous.

 

[David T]

Wow!!!!!!!

By this do you partly mean that since time itself is an invention.........
that I think is like a vehicle that is used to transport "others / Others" from point A to point B
mentally, emotionally and spiritually.....
then since time in a sense does not really exist..... then our tendency to break down time into pieces that we hope to be able to understand better......


.... is automatically rather inaccurate.... in comparison to the ultimate truth of what really happened?

Yes. I like to say mother nature is a lovely Easter lily and dangerous cobra lily at the same time. Be careful of trying to shrink the cosmos to fit your cranium that is dangerous. That places you the observer outside reality regardless. That's why I said near infinity is a contrived based on a fundemental assumption in religion and science we can do that and that is reality it's not. Hell we are taught that in first grade. Here is a book of the world kiddies we shrunk it to words and pictures. We learn quickly books determine reality!!!!! Omg lost in book la la land we are.

 

[Bill Hille]

...God created the heaven and the earth.

Why did He create heaven I wonder. Was He homeless. Why wasn't where He was at good enough? This is assuming that Heaven is God's command center and senior living residence for the saints. Wasn't where He was before He created heaven and earth good enough for us?

*a whacky question but legitimate I think. Inquiring minds want to know.

...God created the heaven and the earth.

Why did He create heaven I wonder. Was He homeless. Why wasn't where He was at good enough? This is assuming that Heaven is God's command center and senior living residence for the saints. Wasn't where He was before He created heaven and earth good enough for us?

*a whacky question but legitimate I think. Inquiring minds want to know.

Well to be perfect in translation the definite article "the" is not there. It is : "In beginning...". This is the same in the Greek OT and in John 1:1. John 1:1 literally, word for word, is : "In Beginning was the Word and the Word was with THE God and God was the Word". Just so you know. Also, Ex 20 and Ex 31 where it talks of the six days of creation it does not have "created" (Hebrew barah, but awsaw [made]" --- just so you know. And Gen 2:3 makes it clear there were two parts to the work; created and made.

 

[Shiranui117]

...God created the heaven and the earth.

Why did He create heaven I wonder. Was He homeless. Why wasn't where He was at good enough? This is assuming that Heaven is God's command center and senior living residence for the saints. Wasn't where He was before He created heaven and earth good enough for us?

*a whacky question but legitimate I think. Inquiring minds want to know.

Assuming that God was somewhere before He created the universe.

 

[DennisTate]

Sigh. My thread is in tatters.

Perhaps... but I think that you are going to be really impressed with the pretty intriguing answer that just came in..............
and.... your discussion seems to have lured a new member here....... Way to go Sandy Whitelinger........

Well to be perfect in translation the definite article "the" is not there. It is : "In beginning...". This is the same in the Greek OT and in John 1:1. John 1:1 literally, word for word, is : "In Beginning was the Word and the Word was with THE God and God was the Word". Just so you know. Also, Ex 20 and Ex 31 where it talks of the six days of creation it does not have "created" (Hebrew barah, but awsaw [made]" --- just so you know. And Gen 2:3 makes it clear there were two parts to the work; created and made.

Could it be that this refers to the Word / Logos.......
one of the Elohim.... and could it be that The Ancient of Days the Father...... wanted to hide... sort of .... until later on.......????????????


Mat 11:27

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him."

Could it be that The Father... wanted The Word / Logos to be in the place of G-d for us humans..........
much as Moses occupied a somewhat similar role for the twelve tribes of Israel??????


Exo 7:1

And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.