In the Beginning...

[socharlie]

...God created the heaven and the earth.

Why did He create heaven I wonder. Was He homeless. Why wasn't where He was at good enough? This is assuming that Heaven is God's command center and senior living residence for the saints. Wasn't where He was before He created heaven and earth good enough for us?

*a whacky question but legitimate I think. Inquiring minds want to know.

it says that in the beginning God had a thought - plan , created universe as a plan. Then only thing that was created ex nihilo was element of matter that had a built in blueprint of everything that will be....Ref. Nachmanides "Commentary on the Torah" and Antoine Fabre d'Olivet " The Hebraic Tongue Restored".

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Assuming that God was somewhere before He created the universe.

It's tricky language. He certainly wasn't in heaven. Looks like we may not get to go there either.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

it says that in the beginning God had a thought - plan , created universe as a plan. Then only thing that was created ex nihilo was element of matter that had a built in blueprint of everything that will be....Ref. Nachmanides "Commentary on the Torah" and Antoine Fabre d'Olivet " The Hebraic Tongue Restored".

I'm not talking about any of that. I want to go where He was before He created heaven. Plus why wasn't where He was good enough? Why create heaven?

 

[Bill Hille]

Now why'd ya go and bring science into a Biblical debate. Now the whole thread is tainted from the get go and all the science nerds are gunna argue.

real science is ok. Jesus is the "ROOT and the offspring (Greek "genes") of David" Rev 22, as the first- born God Family member (born by the resurrection Rom 1). But he is also the "only-begotten" (mono-genes) of the Father. But Paul says to the "scientific" Greeks (Acts 17:29) that we are the offspring (genes) of God. So that only leaves one being that we have the genetics of---the Word. He put his genetics in Adam, took body parts from him and cloned Eve. But the cloning work had to be modified (Hebrew is "built" into a woman). He had to delete the Y chromosome and duplicate the X. Now there are two sets of 23 pairs. The math of 46 things taken 23 at a time gives 8+ trillion different combinations----we are the "body of Christ". Genetics is the blueprint of how something is put together--whether flesh or spirit. Angels are not of the ONE God Kind which other scriptures show; there are many different spirit kinds. "At the time of the end knowledge shall be increased". "The wise shall understand...". God has a plan to save virtually all mankind, but by resurrections (Rev 20), not by the "dying and going to heaven" deceit. "No man has ascended into heaven....." John 3:13. Acts 2:34.

 

[socharlie]

Im not talking about any of that. I want to go where He was before He created heaven. Plus why wasn't where He was good enough? Why create heaven?

I understand that astral world existed (there is no time factor) before beginning of physical world. Physical world was needed to manifest actions, so, souls would be able to correct their egos. Good and evil can be manifested only in Physical world.

 

[savagewind]

I'm not talking about any of that. I want to go where He was before He created heaven. Plus why wasn't where He was good enough? Why create heaven?

Does love need a dwelling place? Also, heaven had to be created for his son and the angels to be there.

Where does anyone park their love when it isn't in use?

 

[socharlie]

Does love need a dwelling place? Also, heaven had to be created for his son and the angels to be there.

Where does anyone park their love when it isn't in use?

God is Agape, human soul is not but is capable to become Agape and that is why this world is learning grounds for human soul.

 

[DennisTate]

real science is ok. Jesus is the "ROOT and the offspring (Greek "genes") of David" Rev 22, as the first- born God Family member (born by the resurrection Rom 1). But he is also the "only-begotten" (mono-genes) of the Father. But Paul says to the "scientific" Greeks (Acts 17:29) that we are the offspring (genes) of God. So that only leaves one being that we have the genetics of---the Word. He put his genetics in Adam, took body parts from him and cloned Eve. But the cloning work had to be modified (Hebrew is "built" into a woman). He had to delete the Y chromosome and duplicate the X. Now there are two sets of 23 pairs. The math of 46 things taken 23 at a time gives 8+ trillion different combinations----we are the "body of Christ". Genetics is the blueprint of how something is put together--whether flesh or spirit. Angels are not of the ONE God Kind which other scriptures show; there are many different spirit kinds. "At the time of the end knowledge shall be increased". "The wise shall understand...". God has a plan to save virtually all mankind, but by resurrections (Rev 20), not by the "dying and going to heaven" deceit. "No man has ascended into heaven....." John 3:13. Acts 2:34.

Wow!!!!!!!!

I am seriously impressed by your statement......

God has a plan to save virtually all mankind, but by resurrections (Rev 20), not by the "dying and going to heaven" deceit. "No man has ascended into heaven....." John 3:13. Acts 2:34." (Bill Hille)

.. you remind me of my old church... The Worldwide Church of God led by Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong........

I would be honoured to get your feedback on this other topic.......

The Philosophical Implications of Multiverse Theory and multiple Ezekiel 37 events...

 

[RedDragon94]

Wasn't where He was before He created heaven and earth good enough for us?

No, we couldn't survive in a world the is formless and void. Things had to be prepared for us.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No, we couldn't survive in a world the is formless and void. Things had to be prepared for us.

Um, according to the text and the gist of the op the formless and void was after the period I'm asking about.

Why did God need to create heaven? What was wrong with where He was before He created heaven and earth, and the darkness and the formless and void?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Does love need a dwelling place?

Totally off topic but I'll try and veer it in the right direction. The answer is of course not so why create heaven when God could have just stayed there, created the world and the universe. Why did He need a heaven? A vacation home?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I understand that astral world existed (there is no time factor) before beginning of physical world. Physical world was needed to manifest actions, so, souls would be able to correct their egos. Good and evil can be manifested only in Physical world.

Good golly this is repetitive. The physical world is not the question. Why create heaven? I'd be just as happy in an eternal retirement home where He was before the beginning.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

The Bible talks about three different heavens. God made the birds of heaven. Where do birds fly? In the air above the earth. So the atmosphere is the first heaven. The there are the stars in heaven. Where are the stars? Outer space. So space is the second heaven. The third heaven is God's home. So God made the earth and it's atmosphere and also out space. These are heavens that had to be created. Andactually there were two creations. When God first made the earth, it was perfect. God does not create chaos. Then the earth BECAME empty and void. God had to start over and REcreate everything so it would be perfect once again.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

real science is ok. Jesus is the "ROOT and the offspring (Greek "genes") of David" Rev 22, as the first- born God Family member (born by the resurrection Rom 1). But he is also the "only-begotten" (mono-genes) of the Father. But Paul says to the "scientific" Greeks (Acts 17:29) that we are the offspring (genes) of God. So that only leaves one being that we have the genetics of---the Word. He put his genetics in Adam, took body parts from him and cloned Eve. But the cloning work had to be modified (Hebrew is "built" into a woman). He had to delete the Y chromosome and duplicate the X. Now there are two sets of 23 pairs. The math of 46 things taken 23 at a time gives 8+ trillion different combinations----we are the "body of Christ". Genetics is the blueprint of how something is put together--whether flesh or spirit. Angels are not of the ONE God Kind which other scriptures show; there are many different spirit kinds. "At the time of the end knowledge shall be increased". "The wise shall understand...". God has a plan to save virtually all mankind, but by resurrections (Rev 20), not by the "dying and going to heaven" deceit. "No man has ascended into heaven....." John 3:13. Acts 2:34.

Wowser.

 

[Etritonakin]

...God created the heaven and the earth.

Why did He create heaven I wonder. Was He homeless. Why wasn't where He was at good enough? This is assuming that Heaven is God's command center and senior living residence for the saints. Wasn't where He was before He created heaven and earth good enough for us?

*a whacky question but legitimate I think. Inquiring minds want to know.

The definition of "heaven(s)" in Gen. 1:1.....

"dual of an unused singular shameh \i shaw-meh'\i0\plain\f3\fs21\cf23 ; from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve):--air, X astrologer, heaven(-s)."

Heavens basically means anything above the Earth.
There are three heavens mentioned in the bible... The sky, space/the entire universe and the specific place of God's throne.

As far as I have read, God does not claim responsibility for creating himself or the most basic reality which allows for his existence.
His does not say he created the beginning of himself, but that he IS the beginning.

The possibility exists that he -though "eternal" -having always existed, but not necessarily in the same exact state -developed himself in tandem with what we call an environment or body -becoming more personally responsible as he was able -and as he became a more complex "person". In other words, his developing mind may have been responsible for his developing environment -that which could act and that which could be acted upon becoming more complex together.

...but that is just a guess.

We have a mind, body and environment -and have little control over any of it.
Being central to all -the original -he would be able to determine all except the most basic truths which cannot change.

Self-awareness is essentially a mirror.
Humans are born and look outward at an already-complex environment -and see themselves in a mirror -or by feedback -as an already-complex being.

Perhaps he developed his "dwelling" as necessary to suit his developing needs and desires.

At some point, God said.... “Now will I rise, saith the LORD; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself.”
He did so initially by beginning to create others and an ever-increasing kingdom.
Therefore, he required a seat of power -or the "third" heaven -and a place for all to dwell -or the universe -called "the heavens".

"The heavens", as written, were "formed" "to be inhabited".

 

[socharlie]

Good golly this is repetitive. The physical world is not the question. Why create heaven? I'd be just as happy in an eternal retirement home where He was before the beginning.

this is no heaven where God is, it rather means sky - part of physical world.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The definition of "heaven(s)" in Gen. 1:1.....

This is why I use the KJV it explains the three heavens. They were created in order.

The heaven where God was going to move to.

The firmament of heaven where the celestial bodies are.

The open firmament of heaven where the birds fly.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

this is no heaven where God is, it rather means sky - part of physical world.

See my previous post.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

it says that in the beginning God had a thought - plan , created universe as a plan. Then only thing that was created ex nihilo was element of matter that had a built in blueprint of everything that will be....Ref. Nachmanides "Commentary on the Torah" and Antoine Fabre d'Olivet " The Hebraic Tongue Restored".
https://www.amazon.com/Hebraic-Tong...=UTF8&qid=1514649156&sr=1-3&keywords=d'olivet

Cool. Why did He need heaven as a new home?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Your question belongs to the realm of the unknown; so, all I can give you is supposition.

Have you ever been on a big ship, above you might have the car decks, the restaurants where you can enjoy just coffee, or food, various types of shops for candy and newspapers, and then the decks for viewing the scenery. Every deck has its purpose, some more glorious than others. If then you go down to the engine rooms, if you ever were permitted this, there the huge engines, the mechanisms for various utilities, and what not. It is noisy, it is busy, and not very glorious.

We are told that the heavens declare the glory of God and does the earth, even in regard to man and woman, we are shown that the weaker vessel, the woman is given more glory than man, again kind of demonstrating where and why glory is given. If then the reality of God is one of power and functionality, just speculating, this may not express the glory of God as the universe with the huge number of galaxies, stars, planets, and nebulae does, or as the earth with its huge number of complex lifeforms does.

As an artist, the picture in his mind - must have an expression to be appreciated by others. Similarly, God wanted others to enjoy his artistry, his creations.

Ok, now why did He need a heaven ahain? And why will He need a new heaven later?