inadequacy or untapped potential?

[ScottySatan]

I'm most easily able to think about the pragmatic side of the religion.


People use bamboo or wooden swords to practice east asian martial arts. A master of Kendo has a real sword, but he's never used it to cut down another human being. The closest I've heard was a Korean school where one kills a pig with a sword to feel what power is necessary to drive a sword through flesh and bone. A modern sword master has never actually been in a sword fight, and is probably not as dangerous as someone from the past who had combat experience.


The same thing is true with other martial arts. I have a black belt, but I have no idea whether I can beat people up any better.


A Co-worker drives a two-seater BMW that could go about 180mph. It's been electronically limited to 155mph. The highest speed limit in the country is 70. She drives it at 60.


The support staff at my work negotiated a strike for one day only about 30 days in advance. The administration docked all participants one day's pay. the academic staff, though also technically on strike, went to work and barely noticed the support staff (secretaries, IT, janitors) were missing. In fact, it was kind of nice because the enforcers of our most ignorant safety rules were gone, and IT didn't un-fix all of our computers for us. The reason for the strike was unchganged.


In college there was a hunger strike protest. Students informed anyone they could, that they would go without food for exactly 7 days, would go to lengths to ensure that no one would become ill, and that they would picket. Whoever they told said "ok". So they went ahead. Most people didn't slow the car down to read. The reason for the protest was unchanged.


Satanists claim amorality, yet behave in a slightly more moral way than most others. Most of them are boring.


Let's swallow our pride for a moment: When walking in open territory, and someone
bothers me, I ask him to stop. If he does not stop, do I DESTROY him? No I don't, because like every other person I have ever met, like everyone in this list, I am a complete wuss. Because using your potential is against the rules. I shouldn't crack his skull open. It's not illegal for this person to bother me usually, so I shouldn't call the cops. I don't have any way to screw with him politically, really. So what can you do? My best answer so far is to keep an eye out for an opportunity. There's no satisfaction in it. Honestly, can anyone here do much better than that?


I feel like we are feeble shadows of men. How do we fix this? I'd move to the relative anarchy of Mongolia, but the job opportunities are limited. I'm working on it with work and study, moving my way up in society, but we want more than that, don't we? So what are we going to do?

 

[Erebus]

I was unfortunate enough as a kid to be the son of a policeman living in a rough area so I grew up fighting. I've been beaten up and beaten other people up, been kicked out of school, been arrested, been sectioned even. Believe me when I say there is a lot of romanticism surrounding the use of our aggressive side.
Despite all this though, I'm in my third year of university with a wide circle of friends. To me that's what the LHP is about, fighting when you have to in order to get where you need to be.

Another point to bring up is that IMO too many people focus on the aggression in Satanism. Got to some Satanic forums and you'll have nothing more than people waving their internet penises at one another. What happened to the charming devil? The carnal gentleman? Being an aggressive thug isn't all that glamorous in the real world and won't get you anywhere.

I can honestly understand your frustration that many efforts seem to be ineffectual. I for one am completely disillusioned with the Liberal Democrats now they've shown themselves to be both greedy and spineless. However there's not a lot I can do other than not vote for them next time around. Sometimes you just can't change a situation no matter how hard you try. You just have to know your limits (and yes, we all have limits no matter how much we seek to improve ourselves) and simply survive what can't be defeated.

 

[ScottySatan]

Oh, I wasn't trying to talk about aggresion, but the broader challenge of affecting your will with power that we are developing, or indeed, power that we already have.

 

[Erebus]

Oh, I wasn't trying to talk about aggresion, but the broader challenge of affecting your will with power that we are developing, or indeed, power that we already have.

My apologies, that rant's been brewing for a while now

Essentially we're presented with the problem of trying to balance our desires with what is realistic. There are few ways around this besides sheer good luck, but personally I find it's one of the areas the LHP becomes useful. Like I said in my previous post:

Sometimes you just can't change a situation no matter how hard you try. You just have to know your limits (and yes, we all have limits no matter how much we seek to improve ourselves) and simply survive what can't be defeated.

Excluding magic (as that's a point of debate I'm not sure is appropriate here) we have to develop our own mechanisms to deal with these limitations if we intend to enjoy the benefits of society. If you want to be an intellectual libertine go to university and enjoy the lifestyle. If you want violence join the army. If you want to explore sexuality find a swinger or BDSM group.
My dad always told me it's less effective to fight the system than it is to use it your advantage. My mum taught me if you really want revenge, be patient and it'll be all the sweeter when it arrives. I've got to admit, I should have listened to them more as a teenager

On a slightly off topic note this is why when it comes to the "We are gods" vs "We strive to become gods" debate I go for the latter, as we strive to improve ourselves we need to find new outlets for our talents. Part of the challenge is to find an outlet that won't cause harm to ourselves.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

We are all conditioned from birth to exist within the nomos, follow the rules, be 'good'. I found this post refreshing because it highlights the fact that even among those that claim the LHP/Satanism, mostly what we have are posers, meaning those that follow those rules, do what they are told while feeling really special and different based on what? A different way of labeling their selves? A belief that they 'think different' even while acting and behaving as everyone else does?

The LHP is by definition a description of heterodox/antinomian behaviour, the philosophy that drives it, and how doing such deeds effect you and break your limitations. Without the doing of the do, their is no LHP, no Satanism. Just talk.

 

[Erebus]

We are all conditioned from birth to exist within the nomos, follow the rules, be 'good'. I found this post refreshing because it highlights the fact that even among those that claim the LHP/Satanism, mostly what we have are posers, meaning those that follow those rules, do what they are told while feeling really special and different based on what? A different way of labeling their selves? A belief that they 'think different' even while acting and behaving as everyone else does?

The LHP is by definition a description of heterodox/antinomian behaviour, the philosophy that drives it, and how doing such deeds effect you and break your limitations. Without the doing of the do, their is no LHP, no Satanism. Just talk.

I'm not sure if you're referring to my post or to the topic in general here. If you are referring to my post I'd like to bring this up again:

I was unfortunate enough as a kid to be the son of a policeman living in a rough area so I grew up fighting. I've been beaten up and beaten other people up, been kicked out of school, been arrested, been sectioned even. Believe me when I say there is a lot of romanticism surrounding the use of our aggressive side.

That is the result of rebellion for it's own sake. It's not pretty. I agree with you when you say some Satanists are all talk, but in my eyes there are none worse than those who espouse self destruction by fighting the law for its own sake. These people will write wonderfully emotive rhetoric with no real idea what it's actually like to fight the system in the way they describe.
Those few who do act on what they preach end up as one of the laughing stocks in prison or a mental ward. I've come close to losing my freedom on several occasions and I've decided self preservation is of higher import than living beyond the limits of society. As romantic as the notion might be, the reality is completely different.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Well, nobody said it was an easy path. Easy to talk about, easy to wear as an identity pin, but not so easy to live.

And nobody said anything about rebellion for rebellions sake. IMO there is no better way to find out what you are about, push your boundaries and become a better version of yourself than walking directly into the fire to see what burns.

 

[Erebus]

Well, nobody said it was an easy path. Easy to talk about, easy to wear as an identity pin, but not so easy to live.

And nobody said anything about rebellion for rebellions sake. IMO there is no better way to find out what you are about, push your boundaries and become a better version of yourself than walking directly into the fire to see what burns.

Fair enough. I see it as a learning experience and opted for caution once I'd been down that road, but each to their own. Having said that though, I wouldn't trade my previous suffering as it helped make me who I now am. In that sense I can see the benefit, but I don't see it as something that can be maintained long term.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Well the LHP, or heterodox path, of which Satanism is a manifestation in western culture, is what it is by way of contrast with the 'nomos', that being the norm, the orthodoxy, that which is to be conformed to. Heterodoxy and antinomianism are means to an end, psychologically speaking, but they are dangerous in that putting yourself at odds with the nomos generally has nomos-induced consequences. Yet it is these very potential consequences, or sometimes, the lack of them, that can serve as a vehicle by which to learn things about the self.

 

[jasonwill2]

My apologies, that rant's been brewing for a while now

Essentially we're presented with the problem of trying to balance our desires with what is realistic. There are few ways around this besides sheer good luck, but personally I find it's one of the areas the LHP becomes useful. Like I said in my previous post:



Excluding magic (as that's a point of debate I'm not sure is appropriate here) we have to develop our own mechanisms to deal with these limitations if we intend to enjoy the benefits of society. If you want to be an intellectual libertine go to university and enjoy the lifestyle. If you want violence join the army. If you want to explore sexuality find a swinger or BDSM group.
My dad always told me it's less effective to fight the system than it is to use it your advantage. My mum taught me if you really want revenge, be patient and it'll be all the sweeter when it arrives. I've got to admit, I should have listened to them more as a teenager

On a slightly off topic note this is why when it comes to the "We are gods" vs "We strive to become gods" debate I go for the latter, as we strive to improve ourselves we need to find new outlets for our talents. Part of the challenge is to find an outlet that won't cause harm to ourselves.

I agree, why call ourselves gods if were are still a work in progress?

We are all conditioned from birth to exist within the nomos, follow the rules, be 'good'. I found this post refreshing because it highlights the fact that even among those that claim the LHP/Satanism, mostly what we have are posers, meaning those that follow those rules, do what they are told while feeling really special and different based on what? A different way of labeling their selves? A belief that they 'think different' even while acting and behaving as everyone else does?

The LHP is by definition a description of heterodox/antinomian behaviour, the philosophy that drives it, and how doing such deeds effect you and break your limitations. Without the doing of the do, their is no LHP, no Satanism. Just talk.

I do not behave as others, I never have. However I find some acts very stupid as they are an easy way to end up dead. I behave in a very "evil" way by the images, thoughts, and actions I involve in with my life. If I want revenge, I don't talk, I go and do it, or at least cast a destruction ritual if I can't use any form of ordinary revenge that is socially acceptable. Though I prefer to screw people over or hurt them emotionally as a form of revenge.

Well the LHP, or heterodox path, of which Satanism is a manifestation in western culture, is what it is by way of contrast with the 'nomos', that being the norm, the orthodoxy, that which is to be conformed to. Heterodoxy and antinomianism are means to an end, psychologically speaking, but they are dangerous in that putting yourself at odds with the nomos generally has nomos-induced consequences. Yet it is these very potential consequences, or sometimes, the lack of them, that can serve as a vehicle by which to learn things about the self.

only if you do something stupid like break the law is it dangerous (or get a mob to come to your house), at least in my experience. Not that I have broken the law, mind you.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

The laws of 'god' are penned by man, so in essence there is no difference between willingly enslaving yourself to 'the law/the government' and enslaving yourself to some doctrine or faith. In both cases, autonomy is sacrificed.

Certainly it is safer and more comfortable to conform.

On another note, if you don't think there are dangers involved in committing even modern heresies that will not get you punished by 'law', try talking about hitler in a positive light in pretty much any social gathering, or at work. You will soon enough find yourself fighting or fired. Of course, the list of behaviors prohibbited by 'law' grows with each day, so you better be quick before that too can get you kidnapped and locked away by those that pretend to have legitimate authority over your thoughts, words, and body.

 

[Adramelek]

Yea, talking the talk is one thing, actual real world manifestation of the Satanic/Setian Will is another. Wearing all black and doning a Baphomet or inverse pentagram around your neck does not a Satanist or Black Magician make. The great Work of Self-Initiation isn't easy, but it really isn't all that hard either. In my experience pushing the envelope of ones own boundaries will lead to the extension of the horizon of those boundaries. To me, that is the very essence of Black Magical Initiation. To me the journey is an eternal one, obtaining one state of being and through the continual Remanifestation of the powers and abilities attained within that state of being will lead you towards the gateway of an even higher state of being, hence, the continual expansion of the horizons of the Self - ad infinitum.

Yes there are plataeus and times of meditation upon that which one has Become, but it is both a blessing and a curse that there is no rest for the wicked. Some of us in our Work in the Realms of the Abyss, in order to quinch our relentless thirst for knowledge and understanding have sipped the Venom of Apep which has made our minds restless and ever striving to expand the horizons of our existence.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Mindmaster]

I agree, why call ourselves gods if were are still a work in progress?

Who says a God cannot evolve? If anything is constant it is change. Being a God of ones personal universe does not preclude one from considering other factors or making intelligent decisions. It just means others don't govern your choices nor influence you beyond your will.

I do not behave as others, I never have. However I find some acts very stupid as they are an easy way to end up dead. I behave in a very "evil" way by the images, thoughts, and actions I involve in with my life. If I want revenge, I don't talk, I go and do it, or at least cast a destruction ritual if I can't use any form of ordinary revenge that is socially acceptable. Though I prefer to screw people over or hurt them emotionally as a form of revenge.

My experience with revenge is at least half of the time it is wasted energy. Does that make me un-satanic? No, it means I don't follow a blind rule of revenge -- I use what I need when I need it. Sometimes payback is the best course, and sometimes and alternative course (with less resistance) will net a larger payback in the sense of humiliating the person who slighted you.

only if you do something stupid like break the law is it dangerous (or get a mob to come to your house), at least in my experience. Not that I have broken the law, mind you.

I had a phase, but I grew out of it. There is more than one way to skin a cat. LaVey's words in TSB aren't necessarily to applied in a physical sense. Realize that often it is possible to get even with someone with mere words. But, you should never bother with this unless it is in YOUR personal interest to do so. If you aren't making more money, or advancing because of it you are wasting your time. You could be doing other things that net you more rewards.

 

[jasonwill2]

Who says a God cannot evolve? If anything is constant it is change. Being a God of ones personal universe does not preclude one from considering other factors or making intelligent decisions. It just means others don't govern your choices nor influence you beyond your will.



My experience with revenge is at least half of the time it is wasted energy. Does that make me un-satanic? No, it means I don't follow a blind rule of revenge -- I use what I need when I need it. Sometimes payback is the best course, and sometimes and alternative course (with less resistance) will net a larger payback in the sense of humiliating the person who slighted you.



I had a phase, but I grew out of it. There is more than one way to skin a cat. LaVey's words in TSB aren't necessarily to applied in a physical sense. Realize that often it is possible to get even with someone with mere words. But, you should never bother with this unless it is in YOUR personal interest to do so. If you aren't making more money, or advancing because of it you are wasting your time. You could be doing other things that net you more rewards.

Well I don't always take revenge, just when I feel I must. The autonomy of my Self is paramount, and I guess I didn't consider myself as a "evolving god" per se, but I have said that I can achieve "literal godhood through metaphorical godhood", but I didn't even think of that metaphorical god as evolving.

Hmm... though you raise a couple of points that interest me... I'll need to think over those again before I can decide what I think of them.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

My experience with revenge is at least half of the time it is wasted energy. Does that make me un-satanic?

Well, it would be hard to reconcile being a doormat with being a Satanist, but I have seen more preposterous things attempted