"incarnation of God" according to allah?

[SLAMH]

Mr, Shishya


May I ask few questions :::::

How do define non-sense or what is your exact standard of non-sense? I see you use a lot of non-sense in your replies while you don't give a sense respond to what you consider non-sense.

Secondly, I see that you compare Hinduism with Islam and pointing out that Hinduism deals better with the meaning of God's incarnation. If it's like why you want to convert?.
SO what is your point? Are you really interested in Islam or you just trying to make some sort of unreasonable challenge.

Thirdly, you ask a question and at the same time you limit the answer to your irrationally (non-sense). On another way, you come up with your own question and you want us to come up with your own expected answer. So Do you expect us to read your mind ? or do you want us to make suitable changes in Islam to fit your unrealistic "non-sense".

Finally, whether you be a Muslim or not. In all cases Islam will neither win nor lose anything.

 

[Madhuri]

Actually SLAMH, if any of you are able to give logical answers about this topic, ones that can be understood, then at least I would not feel it necessary to continue challenging. But it seems so often when questions are asked to Muslims, the answers are vague, dismissive or very difficult to understand. For example, saying that Allah does not incarnate because He is pure. What is the world does that mean? All I want is a logical explanation so that I can understand why you believe what you believe. Sometimes it seems that the Muslims I speak with do not even understand their own beliefs because they can only provide Quranic quotes but not explain their meaning. I find this very puzzling.

 

[Madhuri]

Well , Madhuri ,

Yes, it might be possible what you talk about atheist is right, that they donot believe in GOD , I mean by saying that every body believes in One GOD is that deep in their heart or naturally or spirit (I donot know the right work if you know the work 'ROOH' Its arabic word) every body believe in oneness of GOD.

For example , let talk about phiroh/phiron at the time of Prophet Moosa Peace be upon him , at death time, he said that he believes in Allah but Allah refuses his ascuse becasue a person must have to accept the Oneness of Allah in his life.
(i am unable to quote the exacet verse becuase i only know the meaning in my own language and unable to find the exact verse in english , might besome one else give you the exact verse)

Now , if you study , why did phiroh say he belives at death time because deep in the heart he know that Prophet Moosa Peace be upon him was right and he was just refusing because of some moral benefits.

I still believe that every body , irrespective of any religion in his heart know that there is only and only one GOD Allah , (Its your right whether you agree or not , I had posted my point of view)

Well , i also had difficulty to say the exact words what i want to say due to non-english person , What is mean here is Allah is pure for taking human form or you can say Allah does not want to do this or its not teh characterstics of ALLAH to take human form , and why do do this , There is no need to do that , Instead Allah has send his messnager who are human being to spread his message to whole of humanity.

Actually , what i mean to say is we donot have or we cannot give any attribute belong to human or creation to Almighty Allah ,

So , some one might ask whether Allah eats or not , whether he sleeps or not etc to answers these Allah has said in the Holy Quaran

"Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede In His presence except As he permitteth? He knoweth What (appeareth to His creatures As) Before or After or Behind them. Nor shall they compass Aught of his knowledge Except as He willeth. His throne doth extend Over the heavens And on earth, and He feeleth No fatigue in guarding And preserving them, For He is the Most High. The Supreme (in glory)." [Surah al-Baqarah 2: 255]

Ok, I understand that you believe what you do based entirely on your scripture, not on knowledge, as I have been guilty of this as well. But I know know that I could not presume what is in the heart of every person. I respect that this is your perspective, though although I certainly do not agree with it. I think the whole point of our life is to come to an understanding that God is One, not that we already know. If we did, deep in our hearts, we would not be here, we would already be with God (this is my religious and personal perspective).

I understand that you are struggling with your english, but I think you are making a great effort (well done!).

Is it possible for you to explain what it means to be 'pure' in relation to this discussion? Perhaps pure means something a little different to you than it does to me. I do not understand how being pure would mean that Allah would choose one way of providing revelations over another.

I am not clear if you think that Allah chooses not to or actually cannot take form that a human would see with his/her eyes. If He cannot, then you are actually placing limitation on Allah. This would mean that Allah is not all-powerful. If it is Allah's choice, I do not understand why the asnwer is that there is 'no need' to do this. I do not see how this is about need, but rather preference. It seems Allah prefers not to take on form, but I am not sure that there is an explanation as to why.

From my perspective, it is a great and wonderful thing that God takes form. Of course He is capable of doing so, because He is God and can do anything, as there is nobody better to show us love and wisdom that God, the greatest and truest teacher. If God does not present himself, anybody can claim that God has spoken to him. Indeed, many people have and continue to do so. Hence why there are so many religions.

I want to make it clear. Just because God can incarnate, take form, does not make him 'human'. The Hindu concept is different to the Christian concept that sees Jesus as very human. For a Hindu, if God takes form it is still a Spiritual form.

Do not Muslims have hte belief that man is created in God's image? I know that Christians do, and in a serious sense, so do Hindus. For this reason, it is not strange that the form of man is modelled after the form of God, or that the eternal qualities of the soul are modelled after God.

Taking all that I have said into consideration, are you able to offer me more informaiton, to help me understand your belief? There must be an explanation that helps one to understand. I do not respect blind belief, especially if, as SLAMH said, that a person is not allowed to think about it. Without being able to think about what one believes in and to try and understand it, then one is simply brainswashed, a drone. I am sure that God does not condemn the use of ones (god given) intelligence.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Apart from the point I made in post no. 16 where I said Allah presenting Himself to be seen by believers in heaven is an example of Allah incarnating, there is also the example of Allah speaking to Moses here on earth. Here too, if Allah has made Himself perceivable by man through man's senses, it also amounts to Allah incarnating Himself. I got a reply that the rules of heaven are different from the rules of earth. Conceded. But can it be denied that both earth and heaven/hell (if they exist) are part of existence? Thus, as I see it, Allah incarnating is a fact that is established in the Quran itself.

 

[SLAMH]

Actually SLAMH, if any of you are able to give logical answers about this topic, ones that can be understood, then at least I would not feel it necessary to continue challenging. But it seems so often when questions are asked to Muslims, the answers are vague, dismissive or very difficult to understand. For example, saying that Allah does not incarnate because He is pure. What is the world does that mean? All I want is a logical explanation

well Madhuri,

how do you define logic ?
Is that logic corresponds to your own perspective or to what you assume to be logic.
Logic definition is unique to our acceptance to what logic is or how logic should be. Solid logic never exist but rather than that, dependable logic is existed depending on how we justify our own interest or how we view things.
The point isn't about whether that make sense or being a logic in your mind, but rather than that is trying to understand what is significance beyond it.
The problem with you that you don't accept the answer nor you try to open your mind to understand what it means.
The problem that you ask and at the same time you evaluate the answer depending on your own perception.

For example, I don't really understand That the God of the Hindus does not punish whom don't worship him. Why people should worship him if we are all the same in the eye of him. If it's like that, why God reveal all these rituals to us, where is the mean of spiritual salvation where I can survive without being religious or believing in Hindus God.
Honestly, this might seem to be logic to Shishya, but it is non-sense statement to my logic.

Shishya thinks that the form or God's incarnation is for those who lack the ability to realize God, honestly I think we all recognize love without any form or incarnation of love. Incarnation isn't necessary to realize God since we can realize non-form subjects in live.

Again he thinks that the form attracts the people to worship, I strongly disagree with that. I guess that the significance of the religion itself is more sufficient in the way it attracts people to worship or believe.

Can you see my logic now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so that I can understand why you believe what you believe. Sometimes it seems that the Muslims I speak with do not even understand their own beliefs because they can only provide Quranic quotes but not explain their meaning. I find this very puzzling

Now, I'm confused. Asking why do I believe in Islam isn't like asking about the incarnation of God.

That's irrelevance. Can you explain how does that relate to the incarnation of God?

 

[SLAMH]

that a person is not allowed to think about it. Without being able to think about what one believes in and to try and understand it, then one is simply brainswashed, a drone. I am sure that God does not condemn the use of ones (god given) intelligence.

we aren't allowed to think about it because it's our potential limitation, even if we try to think about how God looks like, we will never figure that.

It's impossible as human being to recognize how God is or how God looks like.

we believe that we will meet God on the day of judgement, but as we still "here" not in "hereafter" we are not able to catch him by our sights. God isn't a spirit but God created the spirit itself.

we are not able to catch God by our sense, because here where is our limitation start.

(God's given) intelligence is for recognizing that God created us and to realize that the universe never evolved by a coincidence.

If that seems to be gloomy, please come up with specific questions so I may try to explain better.

 

[SLAMH]

Apart from the point I made in post no. 16 where I said Allah presenting Himself to be seen by believers in heaven is an example of Allah incarnating, there is also the example of Allah speaking to Moses here on earth. Here too, if Allah has made Himself perceivable by man through man's senses, it also amounts to Allah incarnating Himself. I got a reply that the rules of heaven are different from the rules of earth. Conceded. But can it be denied that both earth and heaven/hell (if they exist) are part of existence? Thus, as I see it, Allah incarnating is a fact that is established in the Quran itself.

Honestly, I'm more confused now.

May you explain the meaning of "incarnation" or how do you define incarnation so I may not misunderstand your point.

As I see that incarnation means that ability to form or embody in many ways. As I understood that embodying to be seen or recognized and that means lacking the own identity so the identity being fulfilled by forming or embodying in another form that is being possessed by another object. ( you may explain)


Contradicting to your points, I don't think that seeing God on the day of judgement refer to the incarnation in anyway. It is more likely that God appears to the believers rather than incarnating himself to be seen.

For example, say that you want to meet somebody and he is in the house and you are waiting outside. Suddenly, he came out.
would you say that he incarnate himself, or would you say that he appeared or came out.

For the second part which is about God's talk to Moses, I don't see how that relate to incarnation.

for example, let's say that you make a phone call, would you say that the somebody you called incarnate himself or he just he use his voice to speak to you.

That's unreasonable stretch to the meaning of incarnation.

Finally, for the part about the heaven, hell and earth. Don't you think that life and death is a part of existence. Even though they have different world and rules.

 

[TashaN]

Tashan, I am curious. In the quote you provided, Allah says that He will fill hell. Putting people in hell is his doing, the punishment he allows. But why does He WILL for people to suffer so horribly, for so long, when he could simply make His existence obvious?

I am always confused about the idea that God would seek to punish those who simply do not believe in His existance. It is not as though these people believe in Him but hate or defy Him. If anybody does not belive in Allah it is because they do not feel they have the necessary knowledge or understanding to be convinced of His existence. People believe in what seems like an obvious reality to them. Why is Allah opposed to enlightening them without torture? Many simple solutions could be found without the need for Hell and none of those solutions would involve eliminating free will. A person can know that God exists and still have a choice as whether or not to submit/follow/worship that God.

I just don't get it.

Your question is legitimate. That's a very good question.

You see, Allah did provide these simple solutions through sending out prophets and messengers to every single nation on earth. Those nations would either accept this guidance from Allah and deserve heaven, or reject his message and deserve hell.

Why wouldn't he try all over and over again?

Well, he certainly does, because earth still exist and we are still alive and kicking, aren't we?

Earth has been there for a very long time, and it's still there, and God will give us the chance to get back to him till judgement day.

You might ask, why to make hell on the first place?

He created hell and heaven before he created Adam, and Adam and Eve were happily living there, and for their sons and daughters, they will have to find their way, either to heaven or hell, because earth is our temporary place. In the hereafter there is no where else to go, it will be either heaven or hell, and it's up to us where to choose to go.

Some people might wonder, why it's my fault that i believed in a certain faith but not another? the answer would be that Allah is just and he would never punish ignorant people, but those who recognized the message of Islam then have rejected it in purpose.

God is giving us today signs everyday, in our bodies and it's perfect design, who is the one who created it?

He give us signs everyday, everywhere, and if someone has recognized all these blessings and believed in God, then God wouldn't benefit from punishing him, he will simply grant him/her paradise.

I am also curious, does the Quran say that Allah cannot take physical form?
Or that He simply chooses not to?

He does take a physical form, but we can't see him now, only in the hereafter. Islam reject the idea that Jesus, Krishna, etc are God incarnation. God might have inspired them, but they weren't him, they were just mere human beings with powers granted to them by God like healing, doing some other miracles, etc.

 

[TashaN]

Actually SLAMH, if any of you are able to give logical answers about this topic, ones that can be understood, then at least I would not feel it necessary to continue challenging. But it seems so often when questions are asked to Muslims, the answers are vague, dismissive or very difficult to understand. For example, saying that Allah does not incarnate because He is pure. What is the world does that mean? All I want is a logical explanation so that I can understand why you believe what you believe. Sometimes it seems that the Muslims I speak with do not even understand their own beliefs because they can only provide Quranic quotes but not explain their meaning. I find this very puzzling.

Sometimes Muslims prefer not to go deep on some issues which they might not be fully aware of, so they prefer to give you the relevant verse which Allah has mentioned this issue or that to find out for yourself, and they might quote a well versed scholar in the religion who can fully cover the question.

If you are still wondering, why would God choose not to appear in this life, i'll mention for you a story which happened long time a go between Allah and the famous prophet of Allah, Moses.

[143] When Musa came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, he said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon Thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); but look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust, and Musa fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (Quran 7:143)

Moses didn't know that God is so great that we can't handle seeing him with our current limited senses.

You would be able to imagine what i'm saying when i give you this example, you know that we are on earth, then we have other planets, then we have the universe, then there are other universes, and there is something bigger than that which we are still not aware of, imagine that God is greater than all that, how can we see him with our simple eyes? we can't.

That's why Allah told us that the believers will be able to see him in the hereafter because the rules are different in the hereafter as my brother Cordoba said before me. Allah will give us the ability to see him, and talk to him directly.

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Can you all stop this arguing and constant proving?...

 

[K.Venugopal]

If you are still wondering, why would God choose not to appear in this life, i'll mention for you a story which happened long time a go between Allah and the famous prophet of Allah, Moses.

[143] When Musa came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, he said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon Thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); but look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust, and Musa fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (Quran 7:143)

Moses didn't know that God is so great that we can't handle seeing him with our current limited senses.

In this Quranic verse, it is clear that Allah spoke to Moses. Only, Moses was in no position to see Allah. In another time and another place a disciple of God (Krishna) wanted to see Him. It was only after the disciple (Arjuna) was given the boon of 'cosmic vision' that he was able to see Krishna. In the Quran it says that Moses heard Allah on earth and in the hereafter believers can also see Allah. Incarnation is all about Allah/Krishna creating the conditions so that man can perceive Him. Why should Allah be restricted to creating the conditions only in heaven? Does it say in the Quran that Allah would not be able to create the conditions on earth? The Hindu scriptures mention the creation of such conditions on earth itself so that God can be perceived. Since earth and heaven are all part of existence, incarnation is a reality according to both the Quran and Hindu scriptures.

 

[K.Venugopal]

May you explain the meaning of "incarnation" or how do you define incarnation so I may not misunderstand your point.

Incarnation, simply put, is the appearance of God, in whatever form (or formless), in the midst of human activities and involving in human activities. That is, God becomes a participant (not merely an observer) in the drama of human life.

Contradicting to your points, I don't think that seeing God on the day of judgement refer to the incarnation in anyway. It is more likely that God appears to the believers rather than incarnating himself to be seen.

God “appearing” and God “incarnating” are synonyms.

For example, say that you want to meet somebody and he is in the house and you are waiting outside. Suddenly, he came out. would you say that he incarnate himself, or would you say that he appeared or came out.

For the second part which is about God's talk to Moses, I don't see how that relate to incarnation. for example, let's say that you make a phone call, would you say that the somebody you called incarnate himself or he just he use his voice to speak to you.

We are used to use the word “incarnate” only vis-à-vis God and therefore it is not said of a person simply coming out of his house or making a phone call.

That's unreasonable stretch to the meaning of incarnation.

I was not unreasonably stretching the meaning of incarnation – I was only implying the possibilities of the word.

Finally, for the part about the heaven, hell and earth. Don't you think that life and death is a part of existence. Even though they have different world and rules.

Yes, everything is a part of existence, including God. If you say God is not part of existence, you are only saying He does not exist!

 

[Rainbow Mage]

The Quran denies the idea of incarnation

Quran 2:116 They, (the People of the Book), have said that God has taken for Himself a son. He is too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and the earth. All pray in obedience to Him.

Quran 5:73 "They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in trinity, for there is no God except one God."

Quran 9:30 The Jews call Ezra a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is the saying from their mouth; (In this) they are imitating what the Unbelievers of the old religions used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth.

 

[K.Venugopal]

Islam reject the idea that Jesus, Krishna, etc are God incarnation.

Muslims reject the idea that Jesus, Krishna etc are God's incarnation because Islam teaches that God does not incarnate. Or so it would seem. Actually, Islam clearly says that God has appeared before humans and will appear again in the future. While Islam appears to have underplayed God's appearances, Hinduism has highlighted such appearances and Hindu scriptures have unfolded extensive biographies of God's appearances, calling it incarnation. Quran has mentioned the appearances only in passing. Hindu scriptures have made His appearances their mainstay.

 

[SLAMH]

Incarnation, simply put, is the appearance of God, in whatever form (or formless), in the midst of human activities and involving in human activities. That is, God becomes a participant (not merely an observer) in the drama of human life.

As you defined the word "incarnation", I don't see how it is a synonym to the word "appearance".

Say that God appeared, has nothing to do with God being a participant in human activities or never reflect such content.


So, rather than stretching the meaning of incarnation, you substantially stretch the meaning of appearance.

Anyway, you may elaborate so I may not misunderstand your point.

We are used to use the word “incarnate” only vis-à-vis God and therefore it is not said of a person simply coming out of his house or making a phone call.

I was trying to clarify my point, because I think saying that God appeared is never reflect to the incarnation in anyway.

I mean that incarnation reflect to taking form in order to be recognized. That mean that you don't have your own form in the first place or your own form is unidentified or unrecognized so you reform in a way that makes you a perceivable. While saying God appeared never reflect to God forming himself to be seen, but rather than that it simply says God appears in the way he is or in his own form.

Yes, everything is a part of existence, including God. If you say God is not part of existence, you are only saying He does not exist!

I don't know how does that relate to my point.

 

[SLAMH]

I Why should Allah be restricted to creating the conditions only in heaven? Does it say in the Quran that Allah would not be able to create the conditions on earth?

Not doing never means the inability to do.

For example, I have the ability to drink beers, but I just don't do because that I don't want do.

The Hindu scriptures mention the creation of such conditions on earth itself so that God can be perceived. Since earth and heaven are all part of existence, incarnation is a reality according to both the Quran and Hindu scriptures.

Incarnation might be a reality in Hindu scriptures, but I don't think it's a reality in Qur'an.

 

[Metempsychosis]

My question is an open challenge to islam and muslims.

If you can answer my question. Then I will accept the quran as the 100% word of God.

I think it would be better to move this thread to debates section.

 

[ZoyaHayat]

I think it would be better to move this thread to debates section.

Glad you said that Anti-Religion otherwise he(Shishya) would blame you for accusing him-like he did to me in the other thread xxx

 

[Madhuri]

well Madhuri,

how do you define logic ?
Is that logic corresponds to your own perspective or to what you assume to be logic.
Logic definition is unique to our acceptance to what logic is or how logic should be. Solid logic never exist but rather than that, dependable logic is existed depending on how we justify our own interest or how we view things.
The point isn't about whether that make sense or being a logic in your mind, but rather than that is trying to understand what is significance beyond it.
The problem with you that you don't accept the answer nor you try to open your mind to understand what it means.
The problem that you ask and at the same time you evaluate the answer depending on your own perception.

For example, I don't really understand That the God of the Hindus does not punish whom don't worship him. Why people should worship him if we are all the same in the eye of him. If it's like that, why God reveal all these rituals to us, where is the mean of spiritual salvation where I can survive without being religious or believing in Hindus God.
Honestly, this might seem to be logic to Shishya, but it is non-sense statement to my logic.

Shishya thinks that the form or God's incarnation is for those who lack the ability to realize God, honestly I think we all recognize love without any form or incarnation of love. Incarnation isn't necessary to realize God since we can realize non-form subjects in live.

Again he thinks that the form attracts the people to worship, I strongly disagree with that. I guess that the significance of the religion itself is more sufficient in the way it attracts people to worship or believe.

Can you see my logic now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, I'm confused. Asking why do I believe in Islam isn't like asking about the incarnation of God.

That's irrelevance. Can you explain how does that relate to the incarnation of God?

Firstly, I want to apologise for taking so long to reply. Life has been busy.

I understand what you are saying about logic. I think we can both agree on what logic is. It is not important to debate over this. I was really trying ot point out that without an explanation of what you or others say, I cannot be expected to automatically understand the concepts presented. And this is for the very reason you explained, that for you to undrstand a Hindu idea I would have to do more than just state the belief or concept, I would have to go in depth and try to make you understand. Do you see what I am saying?

You ask why God does not punish those who do not worship Him. This will involve some indepth explanation. I will try my best.

This is my understanding:

God is the only Being. Nothing exists other than God. God is Creator, the Source, and from His very Self, everything is manifest. You can think of God (metaphorically) as the Sun and everything that exists are like the rays of the Sun. So we are not separate, but neither is the individual God himself. This is a very different concept of God than in Islam, which is dualistic.

The material universe (in which we currently exist) represents the Marginal Potency of God. The Marginal potency represents a conflict between Spirituality and Materialism. The soul is constantly struggling with wanting to fulfill material desires and seeking to be with God.

You can see that I have identified two different forms of energy. Material nature is characterised by temporariness and ignorance. The world and its inhabitants are temporary, there is constant change, death, recylcing etc. Spirital nature is characterised by Eternity, Love and Knowledge (realisation). God is Spiritual. God is refered to as Sat-Cit-Ananda which means Eternity, Knowledge and Bliss (Love). The soul is also Spiritual, and thus also eternal.

So the body dies, but the soul, which is the real individual (you and me are souls, not the bodies that we discard after death) is eternal. We do not live one life in this world. We continue to come back as long as we have material desires (reincarnation). In fact in theory, we can exist here forever, if we choose. But this does not happen. Our journey in the material universe is a constant evolution. With every life we learn more and more until we reach what is refered to as Realisation. At this point, we come to understand God and Self and as a result, we are liberated from this cylce of birth and death. Then we exist with God for eternity.

I will let you know that we do not exist without punishment. We constantly punish ourselves. Are you fmailiar with the concept of Karma? Every action has an equal reaction. If I steal, I will eventually be stolen from. If I kill, I will be killed. If I give charity, charity will be given unto me. So by making others suffer, we are bringing suffering upon ourselves. This is the punishment that we experience. We bring it upon ourselves. But punishment in this sense can serve to bring us closer to wanting to know God. At some point in our struggle we think 'I've had enough, there must be something more than this' and so we begin to search for that something Greater. And we attain knowledge, we start to see things with a different perspective and our very wanting to know God and attain something greater will serve to bring us to our goal.

You see, in Hinduism there is no concept of Evil vs Good. There is no 'good', there is no 'evil'. These are illusions. The real opposites are Love vs Ignorance. In our ignorance, we act selfishly and cause suffering. But that very ignorance represents a sort of innocence. During the transition between ignorance and enlightenment, our 'bad' actions are less innocent and thus our karma is worse, but we are never truly evil. So our journey is one of this evolution from ignorance to knowledge to Love. Because Love is the ultimate reality. God is Love. When we Realise God, we experience only Love (for everything).

Anyway, you asked why God offers rituals etc. for worship. The methods of worship exist as ways for us to rid ourselves of material desires and to cultivate love or knowledge of God. It is always our own choice. If we are too attached to material life then we will continue here for longer. This is our free will.

God incarnates for various reasons. It is not any more or less necessary than using Prophets to spread His message. Whatever the reality is, it is God's choice. So why does God choose one method or another? Tashan explained that God does not incarnate because man is not able to view Him with human eyes, which are too weak or impure to behold that which is so pure, so amazing.
This is not so different from my understanding. But when God appears on this planet for the sake of mankind he cloaks Himself with maya. illusion. People are generally unable to recognise God because of this maya. Only a pure devotee is able to recognise.

One reason that God appears is when the planet is over-abundant with powerful, bad persons. For instance, Rama appeared to kill Ravana. Krishna appeared to kill Kamsa. Ravana and Kamsa were very powerful, mystical personalities who were causing great suffering. No ordinary person could defeat them, no deva (the 'gods' who live in the heavens) could challenge these people.

In challenging and defeating these personalities, God is able to serve other purposes. God shows His glory to his devotees, He provides instructions and serves as an example of Dharma. With His very presense, the world is blessed.

I will stop here because I have written a lot. If you want to ask me any mroe questions, PM me or open a new thread in a different section because the Islam DIR is an inappropriate place.

 

[Madhuri]

Some people might wonder, why it's my fault that i believed in a certain faith but not another? the answer would be that Allah is just and he would never punish ignorant people, but those who recognized the message of Islam then have rejected it in purpose.

Thank you Tashan for your reply. I knew you would give a good and understandable answer

I want to focus on the above statement, which in theory I ccertainly agree with.
What it seems to me is that most people are ignorant. What we believe in is entirely depedent on our life experience and how we are able to percieve things. If we choose something wrong, it is often based on ignorance. Of course people do things that they also know are wrong or bad for them, but when it comes to religion, people generally follow what seems right. I would say most people in the world fit into this category. Very few people believe in God and purposefully defy Him. Especially if believeing in that God means they must believe in Hell.

So in essense, it would seem that very, very few people would actually be eligable for Hell.

My other question is, how is one expected to believe the/a Prophet? So many people have claimed to be prophets but so few are actually considered legitimate by any religion. Why should a person believe that one man offers truth and another doesn't? Especially since we begin life ignorant of truth and so many people are easily manipulated into think or behaving in certain ways?

And for those people who are, for example, brought up in a non-religious family and are never very exposed to religion and die without knowing or understanding the message of Allah, what was the point of their life? They are ignorant, so Allah accepts them, but what was their life on earth for?