Income Inequality.

[Mark Charles Compton]

Something else about real life, we both know that sometimes the work will only get done if we hire qualified (expensive) labor to do it.

Someone should have told that to the owner of the Titan submersible. Unfortunately, he chose "fresh young and open minds" (exploitable labor) instead of hands-on knowledge from salty dogs and the like... but, that would have costed more money... instead of lives, right?

That 19yr old who didn't exactly want to be there, might still be here, but Mr. Moneybags prioritized expenses over experts.

So, while they shouldn't charge $0, I've had coworkers who had to fight for months through use of Labor and Economic Opportunity agents to get a skipped paycheck that was owed to them, so it does happen in a sense. And while they should pay the extra salary so the expert will get the job done correctly, sometimes the greed overcomes logic and thoughts like "I can train someone to do that for less" take control.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

As long as it's not too grainy/distant footage so that it prevents a clear identification of suspects or events. Forensics has been the thing that crushed most criminal minded people in recent history, if you ask me.

But this was about George Floyd. The video is the corner stone.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Well, that and we all saw him do it on video.

I was using sarcasm.

 

[Pete in Panama]

They only pull $2.5 trillion profits? Lemme pull out my violin if I can find it, it's awfully small.

Do they struggle to put food on the table too? Do they have to choose which bills will or won't get paid this month? Do they deal with late fees and/or overdraw fees, further exacerbating the problem?

Are we connected here? It sounds like you're saying that a member of the American workforce is not earning enough to "put food on the table". That can't be what you're saying. We've just found out that the total earnings of the American workforce is $10T. Please think and understand that this comes out to an average paycheck of $70K per year.

Seriously, that's four times what the businesses are making and you're still on this idea that the businesses are making more money than the labor force?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Are we connected here? It sounds like you're saying that a member of the American workforce is not earning enough to "put food on the table". That can't be what you're saying. We've just found out that the total earnings of the American workforce is $10T. Please think and understand that this comes out to an average paycheck of $70K per year.

Seriously, that's four times what the businesses are making and you're still on this idea that the businesses are making more money than the labor force?

Do you have a link to the $10T?

 

[Pete in Panama]

Someone should have told that to the owner of the Titan submersible. Unfortunately, he chose "fresh young and open minds" (exploitable labor) instead of hands-on knowledge...

Please be clear about what you're saying. You can't seriously be saying that companies like Titan Sub Inc. can cut a profit w/ sinking subs. What I'm seeing is that companies HAVE to hire qualified capable workers or they fold. Simple as that.

 

[Pete in Panama]

Do you have a link to the $10T?

Fair question. The link was shared earlier in the convo in post #808 when I said "from here". The actual stat for 2021 was $9,709.991 billion and my guess was that's either close enough to $10T or it should be there by now.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Please be clear about what you're saying. You can't seriously be saying that companies like Titan Sub Inc. can cut a profit w/ sinking subs. What I'm seeing is that companies HAVE to hire qualified capable workers or they fold. Simple as that.

I'm saying, just because it's a bad decision for the long term health of their company, there are many examples of owner/operators making decisions that represent low hanging fruit.

They were operating and giving tours to paying customers since 2021. One tour per year, four customers per tour is a million dollars of income. Probably not a profit at this point, but if he would have gotten lucky a few more years, maybe. I don't know how much he spent on those submersibles... Definitely didn't spend enough on safety.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Please think and understand that this comes out to an average paycheck of $70K per year.

And yet 1/3 of the country make less than a third ($25,000) of the nations median income. Which is more than I have made in any year other than Covid, when the Fed was paying everybody unemployment to sit around and be unproductive.

Personal income distribution by population. Wikipedia:

 

[Pete in Panama]

I'm saying, just because it's a bad decision for the long term health of their company, there are many examples of owner/operators making decisions that represent low hanging fruit.

They were operating and giving tours to paying customers since 2021. One tour per year, four customers per tour is a million dollars of income. Probably not a profit at this point, but if he would have gotten lucky a few more years, maybe. I don't know how much he spent on those submersibles... Definitely didn't spend enough on safety.

Are we agreeing that an employer has to hire folks that are capable or the companies fold?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Fair question. The link was shared earlier in the convo in post #808 when I said "from here". The actual stat for 2021 was $9,709.991 billion and my guess was that's either close enough to $10T or it should be there by now.

Thanks.

What do you notice?

 

[Pete in Panama]

And yet 1/3 of the country make less than a third ($25,000) of the nations median income. Which is more than I have made in any year other than Covid, when the Fed was paying everybody unemployment to sit around and be unproductive.

Personal income distribution by population. Wikipedia:
View attachment 79201

Wikipedia has given me grief in the past, for instance your table has a total earning population of about 270million but the total U.S. workforce is only 164 million (from here).

Let's go right to the source, the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis --and they got the total personal income at $21T (from here) --double the U.S. payroll --lots of rental and SS payments-- and they got the per capita personal income at over $65k (from here) --that's every man woman and child-- and finally we see a median household income from the Census Bur. at $69K (from here). That last link said there are 12% of the population in "poverty" but there's more to that point.

Here's one report on poverty (from here):

According to the government’s own data, the average American family or single person, identified as poor by the Census Bureau, lives in an air-conditioned, centrally heated house or apartment that is in good repair and not overcrowded. They have a car or truck. (Indeed, 43% of poor families own two or more cars.) ​

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The home has at least one widescreen TV connected to cable, satellite, or a streaming service, a computer or tablet with internet connection, and a smartphone. (Some 82% of poor families have one or more smartphones.)​

​

By their own report, the average poor family had enough food to eat throughout the prior year. No family member went hungry for even a single day due to a lack of money for food. ​

​

They have health insurance (either public or private) and were able to get all “necessary medical care and prescription medication” when needed.​

It's controversial.

 

[Pete in Panama]

Thanks.

What do you notice?

Off hand they're using 5 year old numbers --in contrast to what I shared in my post #872 but my guess is that you hinting at something. Please state it clearly.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Wikipedia has given me grief in the past, for instance your table has a total earning population of about 270million but the total U.S. workforce is only 164 million (from here).

Let's go right to the source, the U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis --and they got the total personal income at $21T (from here) --double the U.S. payroll --lots of rental and SS payments-- and they got the per capita personal income at over $65k (from here) --that's every man woman and child-- and finally we see a median household income from the Census Bur. at $69K (from here). That last link said there are 12% of the population in "poverty" but there's more to that point.

Here's one report on poverty (from here):

According to the government’s own data, the average American family or single person, identified as poor by the Census Bureau, lives in an air-conditioned, centrally heated house or apartment that is in good repair and not overcrowded. They have a car or truck. (Indeed, 43% of poor families own two or more cars.) ​

​

The home has at least one widescreen TV connected to cable, satellite, or a streaming service, a computer or tablet with internet connection, and a smartphone. (Some 82% of poor families have one or more smartphones.)​

​

By their own report, the average poor family had enough food to eat throughout the prior year. No family member went hungry for even a single day due to a lack of money for food. ​

​

They have health insurance (either public or private) and were able to get all “necessary medical care and prescription medication” when needed.​

It's controversial.

You can earn and not be employed, such as disability, social security, child support, trust funds, etc... I tried to find a link in the Census Bureau, they didn't have any income by individual or tax bracket that I could find quickly and easily. All I could find was the median or average...

Take this exaggerated example: If the highest earner makes $1.5B and the lowest earner makes $15,000. The average or median income is $750,007,500.​

According to Bing AI, the wealthiest 1% of US population controlled $41.5T in assets in the first quarter of 2021. A little less than 10% are categorized as millionaires status... Minimum wage, which many employers pay through obligation and some through volition, is only around $15k a year.

Everyone should be happy, even the guy making peanuts, right? Especially since you can eat peanuts, and so there is no way he didn't eat. No family member of any home went hungry, for even a single day...

I personally went without eating on multiple occasions, as that $10 needed to go into the tank so I could get to work. I do qualify for food stamps, but like the feeling of accomplishing my own feats.
I haven't had insurance since I was on my father's, I claim that it's by choice but in reality, I couldn't afford it if I wanted it. I just try to practice preventative care.

Que sera, sera.

 

[Pete in Panama]

You can earn and not be employed, such as disability, social security, child support, trust funds, etc... I tried to find a link in the Census Bureau, they didn't have any income by individual or tax bracket that I could find quickly and easily. All I could find was the median or average...

the median's a good metric, it means 1/2 the population earns more and the other half has less. It can shed some light on income distribution.

...I personally went without eating on multiple occasions, as that $10 needed to go into the tank so I could get to work. I do qualify for food stamps, but like the feeling of accomplishing my own feats.

Ah yes, how well I remember being on food stamps. Sure, I could go w/o and be hungry a few days but I had 2 kids & I did not have the right to make them go hungry.

I haven't had insurance since I was on my father's, I claim that it's by choice but in reality, I couldn't afford it if I wanted it. I just try to practice preventative care.

Que sera, sera.

The cost of medical care is a big reason for my being in Panama. My wife went to a first rate hospital emergency a while back, saw a doctor, got medicine, and paid $5. I understand the price has since gone up to $25. My daughter in the U.S. went to the emergency in Austin TX and paid over $1K. From what I understand, half the money Americans pay for medical care goes (eventually) to lawyers because of the runaway tort system. Panama doesn't have that. Sure, we got a lot less recourse but at least we get life-saving medical care.

 

[exchemist]

Are we connected here? It sounds like you're saying that a member of the American workforce is not earning enough to "put food on the table". That can't be what you're saying. We've just found out that the total earnings of the American workforce is $10T. Please think and understand that this comes out to an average paycheck of $70K per year.

Seriously, that's four times what the businesses are making and you're still on this idea that the businesses are making more money than the labor force?

Average tells you nothing about how much it varies from case to case. In the case of remuneration in the USA the average includes the telephone number earnings of the plutocrats, so it does not by itself tell you anything about how wealthy or poor those in say the bottom quartile will be.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

It can shed some light on income distribution.

I agree.

I'm just hyper focused on the peaks and troughs. I don't feel more comfortable when the gap widens more.

I did not have the right to make them go hungry.

Absolutely. I am a single middle-aged Caucasian male, and I am almost 100% at fault for the situation I find myself.

I was am insubordinate to no end and refused to take and do homework in high school, and my school counted homework as 50% of the grade.​

I told my teachers to give me tests if they wanted to know if I knew the subject matter, but as you can imagine, I wasn't the boss.​

I got Es (Fs) and Ds pretty much across the board and my 1.6 GPA doesn't impress too many employers. Lol.​

Regardless how talented or capable you are, with no credentials, you don't get auditioned.

 

[Pete in Panama]

...I don't feel more comfortable when the gap widens more...

This is the key to the entire discussion Virtually everyone I've talked to on this subject says they don't demand equality of income, but they just want incomes to me "less" unequal. That is insane. Numbers are either equal or they are not equal. There is no mathematical description of numbers being sort of equal. They can be say, within 20%. Please think about this, how would you describe what u want w/ incomes. Please describe the incomes in a manner that anyone else can look and understand what u want.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Are we connected here? It sounds like you're saying that a member of the American workforce is not earning enough to "put food on the table". That can't be what you're saying. We've just found out that the total earnings of the American workforce is $10T. Please think and understand that this comes out to an average paycheck of $70K per year.

Seriously, that's four times what the businesses are making and you're still on this idea that the businesses are making more money than the labor force?

Are we living on the same planet?

 

[Pete in Panama]

Average tells you nothing about how much it varies from case to case. In the case of remuneration in the USA the average includes the telephone number earnings of the plutocrats, so it does not by itself tell you anything about how wealthy or poor those in say the bottom quartile will be.

--and the only way to know the case to case relationship is to know every single income for every single person. Ain't gonna happen. We have to start somewhere. Either you pick something u can work w/ or you say you don't know and u sit and listen to others spouting what u consider to be garbage.

So we're back to the fact that we need to start somewhere. Look, if you can't decide where that somewhere is then how can you possibly participate?