Incorporating non-LHP practices/ideas into LHP workings

[SabahTheLoner]

I am a follower of LaVey's Satanism philosophy. I practice magic. I consider myself LHP. But I feel like I can expand that.

I actually didn't start the LHP with LaVey or any other LHP philosophy. I started by researching Wicca. I had a friend who practiced Wicca and they introduced me to the idea of magic. The only reason Wicca didn't exactly appeal to me was the feminine view it has with the whole Moon Goddess and Horned God thing and somehow they are one being that share both a mother-child and sexual partner relationship that cycles with the year.... very confusing and not exactly appealing to me. But I find many of the magic workings aesthetically comforting, and there are many magic practitioners who draw from Wicca, even in the LHP. And diving even further into magic in general, I have found that there are sects of Wicca that draw upon a God(dess) or some from at least one existing pantheon. So what does this have to do with Satanism?

LaVey, as far as I understand, leaves the spiritual aspects of individuality out of Satanism because the individual can speculate on the spiritual by themselves in order to fulfill their ego. From what I have read, he didn't actually have a problem with a Satanist being spiritual, as long as they knew to fulfill their carnal desires first or along side the spiritual. The Satanic Bible never said that you couldn't invoke Bast in a sex spell, or not believe in literal spirits. That being said, I still resonate strongly with LaVeyan philosophy, however I also have had experiences that... well, wasn't "sixth sense", but it was more than "just" a feeling. What if I can use whatever these "feelings" are to my advantage? Isn't that what magic is supposed to be? Isn't that why Satanists are skeptics- to experiment to find their own truth? What if these "magical" feelings that I get standing in a forest or the "power" I feel when saying certain Infernal Names are actually scientifically plausible "spirits" through manipulation of the human will? Does it justify practicing unorthodox magic and still identifying as an atheistic/LaVeyan Satanist?

I would like to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[1137]

From the totally, not at all dogmatic Peter Gilmore:

"My real feeling is that anybody who believes in supernatural entities on some level is insane. Whether they believe in The Devil or God, they are abdicating reason. I just have complete contempt for them and have no contact with them at all. Satanism begins with atheism."

 

[VioletVortex]

I began my Left Hand Path journey as a LaVeyan Satanist when I was 14. I had happened to stumble upon the Church of Satan's website, and I was shocked at the resonance between what is right and true and the beliefs espoused on the site. I began to do more Occult research, and eventually, I grew out of LaVeyanism in favor of what gradually morphed into Theistic Satanism. This was around the time I joined this site.

Eventually, I started questioning my own beliefs and I felt a gravitation towards Odinism (Norse Paganism), which I knew very little about. I researched it more and developed a fondness for it, and now I consider myself to be a sort of mixture between a Norse Pagan and a Satanist. I think that the Left Hand Path is very conducive to fusions, after all, it is a philosophy which can encompass various religions.

Currently, I am feeling a pull back towards Satanism. Who knows what will happen...

 

[SabahTheLoner]

From the totally, not at all dogmatic Peter Gilmore:

"My real feeling is that anybody who believes in supernatural entities on some level is insane. Whether they believe in The Devil or God, they are abdicating reason. I just have complete contempt for them and have no contact with them at all. Satanism begins with atheism."

I'm very much an atheist in the respect that I don't believe that a literal God (or Devil) is entirely possible. I'm asking more about scientific justification for what some may call the "supernatural" (which I think is a very misleading term entirely) and if such a justification can be incorporated into Satanism.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

I think that the Left Hand Path is very conducive to fusions, after all, it is a philosophy which can encompass various religions.

I have seen LaVeyanism incorporated into other religions, and the person doing so labeled themselves "Satanist" in that respect, but never the other way around. I don't doubt it's impossible, however. But in that case, are they simply a "Satanist" and not really a "pure LaVeyan"?

 

[VioletVortex]

I have seen LaVeyanism incorporated into other religions, and the person doing so labeled themselves "Satanist" in that respect, but never the other way around. I don't doubt it's impossible, however. But in that case, are they simply a "Satanist" and not really a "pure LaVeyan"?

"LaVeyan" is hard to define. There is no consensus among Satanists as to what it means. It could refer only to members of the "Church of Satan" organization, those who adhere to its philosophy, and sometimes Modern Satanists in general.

One can create a Syncretic path out of Satanism and Heathenry for example. I am not entirely sure, but I recall something about LaVey himself using Pagan imagery. On his personal sigil was a lightning bolt reminiscent of the lightening bolt rune popularized as the Nazi SS insignia. The rune represents Thor. Even he did some research into Paganism. In fact, LaVeyan Satanism borrows heavily from Paganism. The aesthetics and rituals are very Pagan.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

"LaVeyan" is hard to define. There is no consensus among Satanists as to what it means. It could refer only to members of the "Church of Satan" organization, those who adhere to its philosophy, and sometimes Modern Satanists in general.

One can create a Syncretic path out of Satanism and Heathenry for example. I am not entirely sure, but I recall something about LaVey himself using Pagan imagery. On his personal sigil was a lightning bolt reminiscent of the lightening bolt rune popularized as the Nazi SS insignia. The rune represents Thor. Even he did some research into Paganism. In fact, LaVeyan Satanism borrows heavily from Paganism. The aesthetics and rituals are very Pagan.

Very good points. I've been trying to research heavily both LaVeyan Satanism and its insprations to get more of an idea what could "fit" together, because I know for a fact I resonate strongly with the philosophy, and different people will interpret it differently. I see this as a good thing, though. I don't see anything wrong with adding a little twist to a tradition and still calling it by its original name, as long as the basic philosophies and tenets are intact. It seems a little more natural the way I see it.

 

[Kapalika]

The essential heart of the LHP transcends any one religion. It's a mode of worship and practice, an approach, not a set of philosophy on it's own. So depending on what you take from other religions to add to your ritual, it can work. It really just depends and is contextual and you have to decide it for yourself. In some ways resembling more orthodox rituals might be seen as blasphemous and so it isn't always intuitive what is LHP and what isn't in your culture.

I'm not sure how easily Wicca magic can be used, since some of it's trappings rely on approaching spirits in a way that isn't as communal with the spirits as a lot of LHP magic is. My case with Hinduism is more specific since it already has LHP traditions and so I didn't really need to adapt anything and they meld nicely. I think a lot of neo-paganism can work well, but that Wicca is probably on the less compatible side of that. I can't really comment on more than that, I've never really understood neo-pagan theology very deeply since it seems to be highly personal and beliefs and practices vary so wildly that it's like everyone is winging it. Actually, winging it is probably 75% of the LHP too.

So basically just do whatever you want, follow your heart ect. You'll find what works. Don't try to box yourself in by "trying to be LHP". the LHP isn't for everyone and we are not superior or inferior to just because we are LHP. There are plenty of RHP traditions that are just as good as the LHP, and plenty of LHP traditions that are just as bad as many RHP traditions. They are both just labels but if you want to explore paths that are compatible with LHP again I honestly think Wicca is one of the less compatible ones out of neo-paganism. Consider that a lot of what LaVey said in The Satanic Bible was in mockery of Wicca in particular, up to and including the inverted pentagram. Wicca is basically what he meant when he said "white lighters".

 

[Liu]

I recently had a short discussion in the general debates forum about whether Satanism can still be called that if one connects one's concept of Satan with deities from other religions.
And in my opinion, it at least is common practice to then still call it that.
Even if the more general term LHP might be more appropriate in those cases when one's focus is really much more on myths from other traditions than on the Abrahamic ones, it imo is still a form of Satanism because the term is used that way and because the worldviews of Satanists who work with the same set of myths can differ just as much as those of the ones who work with different myths.

So I would take a similar approach to your questions here.
About whether you are still a LHPer when incorporating magick and the belief that spirits might exist - sure, that's pretty common. Just, don't believe blindly but keep questioning why you believe what you believe. But I think you already figured that out.

About whether you are still a LaVeyan... that gets more complicated. In the current understanding, not really. The term is heavily associated with anti-supernaturalism and pure atheism and materialism. However, as you already pointed out, if you actually look at LaVey's writings they are much less dogmatic and even can be interpreted to include supernaturalism themselves. In that way it's clearly justified that a follower of LaVeys actual philosophy may also call themself a LaVeyan. Just, expect dogmatically atheistic LaVeyans to be not too friendly towards you, the more so if you call yourself a LaVeyan as well.

 

[Kapalika]

I recently had a short discussion in the general debates forum about whether Satanism can still be called that if one connects one's concept of Satan with deities from other religions.
And in my opinion, it at least is common practice to then still call it that.
Even if the more general term LHP might be more appropriate in those cases when one's focus is really much more on myths from other traditions than on the Abrahamic ones, it imo is still a form of Satanism because the term is used that way and because the worldviews of Satanists who work with the same set of myths can differ just as much as those of the ones who work with different myths.

So I would take a similar approach to your questions here.
About whether you are still a LHPer when incorporating magick and the belief that spirits might exist - sure, that's pretty common. Just, don't believe blindly but keep questioning why you believe what you believe. But I think you already figured that out.

About whether you are still a LaVeyan... that gets more complicated. In the current understanding, not really. The term is heavily associated with anti-supernaturalism and pure atheism and materialism. However, as you already pointed out, if you actually look at LaVey's writings they are much less dogmatic and even can be interpreted to include supernaturalism themselves. In that way it's clearly justified that a follower of LaVeys actual philosophy may also call themself a LaVeyan. Just, expect dogmatically atheistic LaVeyans to be not too friendly towards you, the more so if you call yourself a LaVeyan as well.

Also, if the OP joins the Church of Satan and they learn he believes in the Supernatural he will get kicked out. It apparently is a pretty frequent occurrence up to priests who are outed and then kicked out from time to time.

 

[Liu]

Also, if the OP joins the Church of Satan and they learn he believes in the Supernatural he will get kicked out. It apparently is a pretty frequent occurrence up to priests who are outed and then kicked out from time to time.

I haven't heard of that before, thanks for the info.
I thought they don't really care who joins them, and at least not enough to kick people out based on their beliefs.

 

[Kapalika]

I haven't heard of that before, thanks for the info.
I thought they don't really care who joins them, and at least not enough to kick people out based on their beliefs.

Anyone can get a membership card, I'm more talking about those actually involved with them and their functions. If there are any CoS members or officials that know otherwise I'd hope they would correct me here, but I'm pretty sure I've heard people talking about it happening and I've talked to people who've known people who were. I think I read Gilmore once say that they don't allow them but I'm not sure on that last one.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

I haven't heard of that before, thanks for the info.
I thought they don't really care who joins them, and at least not enough to kick people out based on their beliefs.

It's common enough to enough for me to decide against having any official associations woth the CoS. I see them as too authoritarian and not individualistic enough. It's also one of the reasons I'm more likely to label myself as simply an atheistic Satanist.

Thank you for participating in this thread. I guess I still have a lot to discover.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

The essential heart of the LHP transcends any one religion. It's a mode of worship and practice, an approach, not a set of philosophy on it's own. So depending on what you take from other religions to add to your ritual, it can work. It really just depends and is contextual and you have to decide it for yourself. In some ways resembling more orthodox rituals might be seen as blasphemous and so it isn't always intuitive what is LHP and what isn't in your culture.

I'm not sure how easily Wicca magic can be used, since some of it's trappings rely on approaching spirits in a way that isn't as communal with the spirits as a lot of LHP magic is. My case with Hinduism is more specific since it already has LHP traditions and so I didn't really need to adapt anything and they meld nicely. I think a lot of neo-paganism can work well, but that Wicca is probably on the less compatible side of that. I can't really comment on more than that, I've never really understood neo-pagan theology very deeply since it seems to be highly personal and beliefs and practices vary so wildly that it's like everyone is winging it. Actually, winging it is probably 75% of the LHP too.

So basically just do whatever you want, follow your heart ect. You'll find what works. Don't try to box yourself in by "trying to be LHP". the LHP isn't for everyone and we are not superior or inferior to just because we are LHP. There are plenty of RHP traditions that are just as good as the LHP, and plenty of LHP traditions that are just as bad as many RHP traditions. They are both just labels but if you want to explore paths that are compatible with LHP again I honestly think Wicca is one of the less compatible ones out of neo-paganism. Consider that a lot of what LaVey said in The Satanic Bible was in mockery of Wicca in particular, up to and including the inverted pentagram. Wicca is basically what he meant when he said "white lighters".

I do agree with LaVey about "white lighter" philosophy. It focuses a lot on Dinvinity and absolute tranquility which I doubt exists. There are also enough people who misuse the religion's practices or labels to give the community a negative impression all together. Which is also common in Christianity, another religion mocked by LaVey.

Thank you for adding your thoughts to this thread. These are useful things to consider for me.

 

[Sutekh]

@SabahTheLoner

Mr. Aquino was one of these spiritually driven Satanists who were loyal to the Church Of Satan at that time. Mr. Aquino even believed that Satan or the Prince of Darkness appointed Mr. LaVey himself. Mr. Aquino is an interesting individual in which I have the utmost respect for him, I also have my utmost respect to LaVey for bringing me along the Path that I am currently standing. Unfortunately from some of the COS essays Mr. Aquino isn't a well likeable guy since he cut ties with the COS. What is more interesting is some people say that Hebert Arthur Sloanne the founder of our Lady of Endor Coven had ties with Mr. LaVey. Herbert Arthur Sloanne was a Satanist who formed his own Satanist organization before the COS even evolved. But as far as I know I regard LaVey to be the godfather of the Western Left Hand Path.

 

[Sutekh]

I have seen LaVeyanism incorporated into other religions, and the person doing so labeled themselves "Satanist" in that respect, but never the other way around. I don't doubt it's impossible, however. But in that case, are they simply a "Satanist" and not really a "pure LaVeyan"?

I was at one time a "pure LaVeyan" as well. However my concepts of the LHP has evolved by incorporating other things especially some of the viewpoints of the Temple of Set. My own concept of the LHP is finding what resonates with you and what doesn't. It is a very individualistic type path for me.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

I was at one time a "pure LaVeyan" as well. However my concepts of the LHP has evolved by incorporating other things especially some of the viewpoints of the Temple of Set. My own concept of the LHP is finding what resonates with you and what doesn't. It is a very individualistic type path for me.

I think the LHP is very much an individualistic experimental path in general. After reading a few of LaVey's works, I started shifting focus a little bit to Chaos magic (I've tried a Choas magic ritual and it seemed to work) and I have been thinking about trying Luciferian-related magic. I still very much respect Anton LaVey and I agree strongly with LaVeyan philosophy, but I don't think I can ever be a "pure LaVeyan". I'm simply too curious and adventurous to stick to one corner of an entire room.