Indian Elections, world's largest democracy

[Kathryn]

Are these two not closely related? Just because social mobility exists, in India and in Europe, doesn't mean the old prejudices don't remain, or don't have any influence.

They are not necessarily closely related. I mean, they CAN be but the class system seems more fluid than the caste system.

 

[RestlessSoul]

The difference is, in caste system, only birth matters, not wealth. You can be the richest person in the country, but you may still be deprived of access and services reserved for upper caste people, even the poorest upper caste person.
Fortunately that is no longer true in India...mostly.

That's the same principle though, which underpins the class system in Britain. Witness how the aristocracy have protected their wealth and power down the generations; hence the derogatory expression 'nouveau riche', used to describe wealthy people who didn't go to the right school.

The general point I'm trying to make, is that India's caste system really isn't so different from those remnants of feudal hierarchies, which still persist in Europe.

 

[Debater Slayer]

No, it's not the only thing but it's a thing. I explained why by the way.

I'm sorry your brother went through that experience. I do agree that caste systems are horrible and need to be done away with.

My previous response was mainly based on my having seen a trend in many discussions about certain countries where the discussions up being focused only on negative aspects—some of which are stereotypical or exaggerated (I'm not talking about the caste system, to be clear)—and little or nothing else even when the context is unrelated to those aspects.

(I have seen that happen in some discussions about the US too, to be clear.)

 

[Kathryn]

That's the same principle though, which underpins the class system in Britain; hence the derogatory expression 'nouveau riche', used to describe wealthy people who didn't go to the right school.

The general point I'm trying to make, is that India's caste system really isn't so different from those remnants of feudal hierarchies, which still persist in Europe.

I am not sure you've dealt with a caste system before.

 

[Kathryn]

I'm sorry your brother went through that experience. I do agree that caste systems are horrible and need to be done away with.

My previous response was mainly based on my having seen a trend in many discussions about certain countries where the discussions up being focused only on negative aspects—some of which are stereotypical or exaggerated (I'm not talking about the caste system, to be clear)—and little or nothing else even when the context is unrelated to those aspects.

(I have seen that happen in some discussions about the US too, to be clear.)

Yep, me too. That being said, I'm fine with dropping the topic and focusing on the good of India. I am basically meandering - LOL. That being said, I have to wonder about a country with a caste system in place.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I am not sure you've dealt with a caste system before.

I'm pretty sure I've lived all my life in a country where class and status are still determined by birth. Have you seen our Royal Family, or our House of Lords? Are you familiar with the concept of 'the old school tie'?

 

[Kathryn]

I'm pretty sure I've lived all my life in a country where class and status are still determined by birth. Have you seen our Royal Family, or our House of Lords? Are you familiar with the concept of 'the old school tie'?

Yes, I have seen the royal family and to be honest, I'm a bit of an Anglophile. That being said, I have also experienced a caste system and they are not the same in my opinion.

Also. the middle class in England seems very large.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I'm glad to hear it and will be even more glad to hear it's completely done away with. Officially and unofficially.

Kathryn, we are not so caste-bound now. We are brahmins but my daughter-in-law and that of my younger brother are not from brahmin families. My grand daughter has married a Roman Catholic. Our young people have complete freedom to marry whomever they like.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What I see is a country that liberated itself from colonial brutality and exploitation less than 100 years ago and is now the world's largest democracy, a growing research and manufacturing hub, and a rapidly growing economic power. It also has more religious, linguistic, and cultural diversity than most countries on the planet.

As far as I know, India has made strides toward improving quality of life in recent years, and just as it has dusted off most of the malignant relics of colonialism, I hope that it will do the same to whatever remains of the caste system's influence on its public life.

Thanks @Debater Slayer , for appreciation of what India is striving to do.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Regarding the elections, some of Modi's policies strike me as markedly harmful and underpinned by extremism, so it is unfortunate to see that he is still the prime minister. However, it is good to see that the BJP now at least has to deal with more opposition in the government.

That is not true, Debate Slayer. Modi's policies may be pro-Hindu but they are never anti-Muslim or anti-Christian. All people irrespective of their religion get the benefit of the policies of Indian government. Indian Supreme Court will not allow discriminatory policies. Muslims or Christians are not excluded from free rations, help to build houses, etc. or any kind of financial help. Modi cannot help if Indian Constitution says that 'Affirmative' policies can be given only to Hindus, Buddhist and Sikhs. Blame the Constitution makers. Modi does not have the numbers to change the Constitution. It requires a two-third majority in the Parliament.
With Muslims and Christians generally voting en-masse against Modi's government, he really has no incentive to change things. The situation will be different if Muslims and Christians vote for Modi.
More rowdy opposition will only mean wastage of time in Parliament, that is only what a larger opposition will want to do (to be in the news all the time), and the necessary policies will be adopted without civil discussion because Modi has the majority.

 

[sayak83]

Regarding the elections, some of Modi's policies strike me as markedly harmful and underpinned by extremism, so it is unfortunate to see that he is still the prime minister. However, it is good to see that the BJP now at least has to deal with more opposition in the government.

Modi remains because the opposition parties have very little vision. This has been an anti-govt vote, not a pro opposition vote. Let's see if they can craft something better over the next 5 years, as a lot of state elections will go the opposition way soon and they will wield real power in the state and in the upper house soon.
BJP lost in Ayodhya, where the Ram temple was built by the way.

 

[Kathryn]

Kathryn, we are not so caste-bound now. We are brahmins but my daughter-in-law and that of my younger brother are not from brahmin families. My grand daughter has married a Roman Catholic. Our young people have complete freedom to marry whomever they like.

I am so glad to hear that!

 

[Aupmanyav]

@Kathryn , just to mention that I like your signature. I also believe in 'ex-nihilo'.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Modi remains because the opposition parties have very little vision. This has been an anti-govt vote, not a pro opposition vote. Let's see if they can craft something better over the next 5 years, as a lot of state elections will go the opposition way soon and they will wield real power in the state and in the upper house soon.

The players in this election were caste (Yadavas and Rajputs), religion (Muslims) and farmers who wanted government to buy their produce at price that they demanded. It was not about what Modi government had done.
If the opposition has not been able to craft something better in the last 10 years, I very much doubt that they can do it in the next five years. The same opposition leaders will be there in 5 years from now.
What will happen in the coming elections can be forecast only by someone who is a prophet. Are you one?

Read this: These are India’s 34 most powerful political families
That is the opposition, in most cases - dynastic. I do not think there will be many BJP families in the article.

 

[sayak83]

The players in this election were caste (Yadavas and Rajputs), religion (Muslims) and farmers who wanted government to buy their produce at price that they demanded. It was not about what Modi government had done.
If the opposition has not been able to craft something better in the last 10 years, I very much doubt that they can do it in the next five years. The same opposition leaders will be there in 5 years from now.
What will happen in the coming elections can be forecast only by someone who is a prophet. Are you one?

Read this: These are India’s 34 most powerful political families
That is the opposition, in most cases - dynastic. I do not think there will be many BJP families in the article.

Most of my expectations about an election does come true.... so I am reasonably confident that BJP will lose Haryana and Maharashtra elections.

 

[sayak83]

The players in this election were caste (Yadavas and Rajputs), religion (Muslims) and farmers who wanted government to buy their produce at price that they demanded. It was not about what Modi government had done.
If the opposition has not been able to craft something better in the last 10 years, I very much doubt that they can do it in the next five years. The same opposition leaders will be there in 5 years from now.
What will happen in the coming elections can be forecast only by someone who is a prophet. Are you one?

Read this: These are India’s 34 most powerful political families
That is the opposition, in most cases - dynastic. I do not think there will be many BJP families in the article.

The number of dynasts among MPs is not insignificant in BJP/NDA
The BJP's political families | The dynasts dilemma
There will be 18 from INC and 12 from BJP in the current Lok Sabha.

I do not see dynasty as a significant problem. Competency is the main criteria.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I do not see dynasty as a significant problem. Competency is the main criteria.

That is unfortunate. Gandhis, the two Yadavas, the Karunanidhis have swindled Indian people of billions of Rupees.
Were these dynasty people more competent than BJP people except in corruption?

 

[sayak83]

That is unfortunate. Gandhis, the two Yadavas, the Karunanidhis have swindled Indian people of billions of Rupees.
Were these dynasty people more competent than BJP people except in corruption?

I consider Nehru, Indira Gandhi, Narasimha Rao and Sonia Gandhi as highly competent leaders as also with Karunanidhi (see the development of Tamil Nadu in GDP per capia compared to other states), Atal Bihari Vajpayee, Narendra Modi, Nitish Kumar, Chandrababu Naidu etc . The indicators of competency can include GDP growth rates, foreign policy and diplomacy, stability, social justice scheme implementation, ease of doing business etc.
Corruption is an issue only in so far to the extent they weaken these metrics. So is nepotism.

 

[JIMMY12345]

Freebies promised by Indian National Congress (Gandhi family party):

Kejriwal was put in jail.Russia China all the countries keep it simple jail opponents.
The planets align for Donald Trump when he wins - will he jail potential opponents.His strategy will be a complicit administration for those who want a job.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Kejriwal was put in jail.Russia China all the countries keep it simple jail opponents.
The planets align for Donald Trump when he wins - will he jail potential opponents.His strategy will be a complicit administration for those who want a job.

You are wrong here. Did Modi put Kejriwal in Jail? The High Court and Supreme Court put him in jail on the basis of what ED (Enforcement Directorate) presented to them. Modi cannot send anyone to jail. They were involved in corruption, and are now reaping its fruits. Even their party, AAP, is accused. It used proceeds of corruption for elections in Goa. I would not be surprised if Election Commission de-recognizes it. They thought since they are in power, so, nobody could do anything against them.

Arvind Kejriwal, Manish Sisodia, Satyendra Jain, Sanjay Singh and others: 16 AAP leaders who were arrested in corruption, criminal and other cases

BTW, a total of 642 million people voted in this election (out of the total 967 million), i.e., 65.79%. This does not include postal ballots.