Interested in learning more about Sant Nirankari

[dsaly1969]

I ran across information about the Sant Nirankari Mission and have been reading some of their online material which I have found interesting. They seem to be a modernized offshoot or "relative" to Sikhism much like Sant Mat where there is devotion to a living teacher (guru) rather than the Guru Granth Sahib as the final authority, and they do not do the "5" K's of the Khalsa. So obviously the more conservative and fundamentalist elements of the Sikh community find them to be "heretics".

Anyways I was wondering if anyone was familiar with them and could tell me a little more about them. Thanks!

 

[Vinayaka]

There was a center in our city, and probably still is, and for years when I drove by, I wondered what the sign on that house meant. Now I know, so thanks.

 

[Sumit]

Please be away from them. There is one center just near house so I know about them and their mission has nothing to do with Sikhism (their teachings are different), they are just trying to create a new religion and try to prove their Guru Hardev Singh as divine person. If you are interested you can read about Sikhism (It's a beautiful religion).

 

[dsaly1969]

I know that they are not Sikh and are considered "heretics" if you read my initial post. I was raised up Mormon (and my family still are active), know Baha'is and Ahmadis (Ahmadiyyat members), Jehovah's Witnesses, and ISKCON members. I don't worry about the "heretic" label too much as it is simply too often used to dehumanize a group and justify violence (like the 1980 assassination of the leader of the Sant Nirankari Mission).

I agree that Sikhism is a beautiful religion but that does not mean we should not try to learn more about dissident groups.

 

[Gaura Priya]

Sant Nirankari Mission (SNM) is basically a new religion that does follow a guru, and is somewhat of an off-shoot of Sikh philosophy. They do not follow icon-worship, and believe in the oneness of God, but necessitate a guru to show that faith must be a living one.

As far as I know, their Scripture, which are a few prayers, is called the 'Avtar Bani'. They seem pretty legit, and they do have a centre here in my province that I have not visited yet. I have the Avtar Bani on my e-reader though, waiting to be read!

 

[chinu]

I ran across information about the Sant Nirankari Mission and have been reading some of their online material which I have found interesting. They seem to be a modernized offshoot or "relative" to Sikhism much like Sant Mat where there is devotion to a living teacher (guru) rather than the Guru Granth Sahib as the final authority, and they do not do the "5" K's of the Khalsa. So obviously the more conservative and fundamentalist elements of the Sikh community find them to be "heretics".

Anyways I was wondering if anyone was familiar with them and could tell me a little more about them. Thanks!

"Sikhism" or "Sant Nirankari Mission", which one is more correct from these two.
Is this what you want to know, finally ?

 

[dsaly1969]

I visited the Southern California congregation of the Sant Nirankari Mission this last Sunday. They were very nice and welcoming.

I like their spiritual philosophy elucidated in the Avtar Bani as it focuses on satsang, simran, and seva. Our ego gets in the way of relinquishing control over to God. This is why satsang (community) is so important to encourage us in simran (remembrance of God and continual awareness of God's omnipresence) and seva (compassionate service to others). The three "S"'s are a powerful mechanism to help us to control our minds and emotions through putting focus on God and the needs of others rather than the wants of our egos. (This philosophy is very consistent with parallel core teachings of other religious traditions.)

An interesting feature of Sant Nirankari is that one does not have to give up one's existing religion to join them. They are explicitly universalist in orientation. (A note - they try to consider themselves to be more of a "spiritual movement" than a "religion" per se - but if I was to categorize them I would say they are a new religious movement (started 1936?) that evolved out of more progressive interpretations of Sikhism.

 

[Kalidas]

So more of a philosophical spiritual group that accepts other religions among them? Sounds like a kind wonderful group of people. I will have to look them up.

 

[Treks]

that evolved out of more progressive interpretations of Sikhism.

I have seen their stand at the psychic fair but I don't know much about them. They may have taken inspiration from Sikhi and be flying the flag of practices like simran and seva, however as you've already stated they follow a human guru and this is contrary to Sikhi - Sikhs have one guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

I'm not sure how this becomes a more progressive interpretation of Sikhism. What are you trying to say?

Also consider than the Nirankari sect was a reform movement of Sikhi in the 1800s. "Sant Nirankari" split from that Nirankari sect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirankari

 

[dsaly1969]

I do not think that Sant Nirankaris are the same thing as Sikhs (or Nirankari Sikhs) as they do not view Guru Granth Shib as their guru as they follow a living human guru much like the early Sikhs (and they do not claim to be Sikhs either)., By "progressive interpretation" I mean that they do not go around labelling others as "heretics" and other more problematic fundamentalist type behaviors that have occurred among SOME more conservative Sikh groups.

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/publication/nightsoffalsehood/falsehood4.htm

 

[Treks]

Thank you for the clarification and the link.

 

[VajraYosid]

There are Sikh sects who follow human gurus, generally udasis.

I wonder why this is so problematic from the fundamentalist Sikh perspective?

 

[GURSIKH]

Namaste Yajra
Udasis -- literally, means the 'renunciants', unlike mainstream sikhi they are not householder .

UDASI, an ascetical sect of the Sikhs founded by Sri Chand (1494-1629), the elder son of Guru Nanak. Udasi is derived from the Sanskrit word udasin, i.e. one who is indifferent to or disregardful of worldly attachments, a stoic, or a mendicant .

In AD 1629, Sri Chand asked Guru Hargobind(sixth Guru) to spare one of his sons to join him in his religious preaching. The Guru gave him Baba Gurditta, his eldest son.

Baba Sri Chand did occasionally visit the Gurus who treated him with respect for being a saintly personage as well as for being a son of Guru Nanak.

Several of the Udasi saints are remembered with esteem in the Sikh tradition.

In their religious practices they differ from the Sikhs, though they revere Guru Nanak and Guru Granth Sahib like all other Sikhs. In their monasteries, Guru Granth Sahib is the scripture that is read. They do not subscribe to the Sikh rites. Their ardas also varies. Ringing of bells (ghanti or gharial}, blowing instruments (narsingha or singhi) form part of their religious service, They worship icons of Guru Nanak and Baba Sri Chand. Their salutations are Vahguru (Glory of the God), Gajo ji Vahguru (Hail aloud the glorious Lord) or Alakh (Hail the Unknowable). .

UDASI - Traditional Sikh schools

It is said that Baba Sri Chand, elder son of Guru Nanak and founder of the Udasi order, came to Amritsar to meet Guru Arjan(fifth Guru), who then was engaged in composing the Bani Sukhmani sahib . The Guru who had by that time completed sixteen astpadis, or cantos, requested Baba sri chand to contibute in the bani . Baba Sri Chand, out of humility, only recited the salok of Guru Nanak following the Mool Mantra in the Japji — “aaad sach, jugad sach; hai bhi sach, Nanak hosee bhi sach” — "True in the beginning, True through the ages; True even now; Nanak say, Shall remain ever True" (SGGS p285). This salok was thereupon repeated by Guru Arjan at the head of the seventeenth astpadi.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Sukhmani

 

[VajraYosid]

Thanks Gursikh. I became aware of udasis & Baba Siri Chand in particular visiting Gobind Sadan in Delhi quite by accident. Baba Virsa Singh ji was very much a living guru - and still is, even in death, and was a disciple of Baba Siri Chand through dreamlike emanations.

But this seems quite heterodox to my understanding of Khalsa Sikhism, although I don't think he himself butted heads with it - he was probably too respectable, and never usurped authority from the Guru Granth Sahib.

Can you clarify why a human guru is frowned upon? I get a little nervous about any tradition that fixates itself with a 'last revelation,' final messenger, etc. But maybe I am failing to understand something.

 

[GURSIKH]

But this seems quite heterodox to my understanding of Khalsa Sikhism, although I don't think he himself butted heads with it - he was probably too respectable, and never usurped authority from the Guru Granth Sahib

Can you clarify why a human guru is frowned upon? I get a little nervous about any tradition that fixates itself with a 'last revelation,' final messenger, etc. But maybe I am failing to understand something.

hi Vajra ji

Guru sahib never claimed things like "last messenger ,last revelation etc , .


for Sikhi Guru Granth sahib ji is perfect Guru/Teacher ,but it noway means that no one other can attain perfection .




in japji sahib it says

Asaʼnkẖ jap asaʼnkẖ bẖā▫o.
Countless meditations, countless loves.
Asaʼnkẖ pūjā asaʼnkẖ ṯap ṯā▫o.
Countless worship services, countless austere disciplines.
Asaʼnkẖ garanth mukẖ veḏ pāṯẖ.
Countless scriptures, and ritual recitations of the Vedas.
Asaʼnkẖ jog man rahahi uḏās.
Countless Yogis, whose minds remain detached from the world.
Asaʼnkẖ bẖagaṯ guṇ gi▫ān vīcẖār.
Countless devotees contemplate the Wisdom and Virtues of the Lord.
Asaʼnkẖ saṯī asaʼnkẖ ḏāṯār.
Countless the holy, countless the givers.
Asaʼnkẖ sūr muh bẖakẖ sār.
Countless heroic spiritual warriors, who bear the brunt of the attack in battle (who with their mouths eat steel).
Asaʼnkẖ mon liv lā▫e ṯār.
Countless silent sages, vibrating the String of His Love.
Kuḏraṯ kavaṇ kahā vīcẖār.
How can Your Creative Potency be described?
vāri▫ā na jāvā ek vār.
I cannot even once be a sacrifice to You.
Jo ṯuḏẖ bẖāvai sā▫ī bẖalī kār.
Whatever pleases You is the only good done,
Ŧū saḏā salāmaṯ nirankār. ||17||
You, Eternal and Formless One. ||17||

 

[Treks]

for Sikhi Guru Granth sahib ji is perfect Guru/Teacher ,but it noway means that no one other can attain perfection .

Yes bhaji, that's it precicely.

Mainstream Sikhs hold that Guru Gobind Singh Ji's command to us is "All Sikhs are enjoined to accept the Granth as their Guru. Consider the Guru Granth as an embodiment of the Gurus.Those who want to meet God, can find Him in its hymns."
(You can read more here: Guru Maneyo Granth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

We sing this every Sunday with ardaas at Gurdwara Sahib. So for mainstream Sikhs the idea of having any other guru besides Guru Granth Sahib Ji is contrary to Guru Gobind Singh Ji's command for his Sikhs.

People will do whatever people want to do, and that's just fine, as long as the distinction is clear, which it is in this thread. I'll kindly remove my nose now.

 

[VajraYosid]

Was anything said that precluded human gurus after Guru Gobind Singh?

 

[Treks]

Why would Sikhs want another guru when we already have one?

 

[GURSIKH]

Was anything said that precluded human gurus after Guru Gobind Singh?

hi Vajra

Tenth Guru Guru Gobind singh ji selected Guru Granth Sahib ji as his successor instead of human Guru .
Bhai Nand lal court poet of Guru sahib recorded Gurus word in Rehitnaama bhai nand lal as ..

"Dusara rup Granth ji jan, Un ke ang mero kar man.
Jo sikh gur darshan ki chah, Darshan karo granth ji ah.
Jo mam sath chaho kar bat, Granth ji parhe bichare sath.
Jo muj bachan sunan ki chai, Granth ji parhe sune chit lae.
Mero rup Granth ji jan, Is men bhed nahin kuchh man."



"The Granth is my second self. It should be taken for me. A Sikh who wants to see me, should have a look at the Granth. One who wishes to talk to me, should read the Granth and think over it. One who is anxious to listen to my talk, he should read the Granth and listen to its recitation with attention. Consider the Granth as my ownself. Have not the least doubt about it."

 

[VajraYosid]

Thanks Gursikh, so to confirm: there was nothing said to preclude more gurus coming about?