Intrinsic Purpose of Life

[FunctionalAtheist]

From my dictionary...'Nature' - A causal agent creating and controlling things in the universe.

So nature, fyi, is more than "merely the collection of all the things that are", it is the cause of creation and order in and of the Cosmos.

Apart from that, nothing you have said actually addressed my question so I repeat it..."...do please provide the evidence, scientific or otherwise, that Nature is devoid of consciousness?"

Now think about it before you respond, you are being asked to provide evidence, not just to proffer your or anyone else's belief.

You really should get a better dictionary if you wish to be understood and communicate intelligently.

 

[Thief]

Not exactly. I'm combining creation and its Maker.

That would place Spirit into all embodiments....any substance.

Not buying that.

 

[Looncall]

Intelligence isn't evident, there only appears to be intelligence in creatures with brains, but there is no way in knowing that there is.

One could make an argument that the way things act indicates there to be life to existence as a whole, and perhaps take that further to say conscious life. That the way things occur are actually based on a will that appears to be unconscious and thus not a will, but it could just as likely be conscious.

Another argument is that the fact that there is animation in some forms means there is animation in the Whole. That life itself is the life of the Whole, the Whole's experiencing itself is in experiences we are aware of.

That's quite an impressive collection of non-sequiturs you have there.

 

[idav]

That would place Spirit into all embodiments....any substance.

Not buying that.

Whether or not you buy it, whats wrong with it?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Ultimate purpose may depend on knowing what the creator knows.

There are also the purposes we create, you mentioned an example. These purposes just depend on perpective. I think guns is to hunt, this other guy thinks its to use for seeking vengeance, the mktive of the creator of the gun may have been for pests.

I don't think it matters what the creator intended creation for. That meaning is only relevant to him, we find ways to make ourselves impact our own lives and the world around us.

But I personally don't believe in a creator, just information generating itself. Out of curiosity, what is your view of a creator as a pantheist.

 

[Sleeppy]

The All-Purpose is acting out His purpose(s). You've experienced quite a bit; try reflecting on what you've done, what you are doing, and what you will do.. It's overwhelmingly magnificent.

 

[Etritonakin]

Whitman got it right.....

That you are here—that life exists and identity,
That the powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse.


The meaning of life is life -and in a biblical sense it is to continue this eternally -and the meaning of this present human existence is to begin to learn to do so in a way which allows all to contribute their verses without conflict -to eradicate that which turns our initial awe and wonder to world-weariness.

As Christ said -of his purpose....

Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

SO... we gain eternal life..... then what?

Greater and greater creativity, awesomeness, beauty, joy, fun, love -what other meaning could there be?

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

[Thief]

Whitman got it right.....

That you are here—that life exists and identity,
That the powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse.


The meaning of life is life -and in a biblical sense it is to continue this eternally -and the meaning of this present human existence is to begin to learn to do so in a way which allows all to contribute their verses without conflict -to eradicate that which turns our initial awe and wonder to world-weariness.

As Christ said -of his purpose....

Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

SO... we gain eternal life..... then what?

Greater and greater creativity, awesomeness, beauty, joy, fun, love -what other meaning could there be?

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Sounds more like Genesis than Job....does it not?

 

[Thief]

Whether or not you buy it, whats wrong with it?

Obviously substance and spirit have been separated.

You don't kneel before the gravel in your driveway....do you?
How about graven images?

 

[Thief]

Intelligence isn't evident, there only appears to be intelligence in creatures with brains, but there is no way in knowing that there is.

One could make an argument that the way things act indicates there to be life to existence as a whole, and perhaps take that further to say conscious life. That the way things occur are actually based on a will that appears to be unconscious and thus not a will, but it could just as likely be conscious.

Another argument is that the fact that there is animation in some forms means there is animation in the Whole. That life itself is the life of the Whole, the Whole's experiencing itself is in experiences we are aware of.

Ever work for a boss man that didn't know what he was doing?
(intelligence as an indicator?)

If it can be aware of you....if it can run?

Saw a report when I was a teenager about plant life and it's possible sense of awareness.
The experiment seemed convincing.

Makes you wonder if a field of grain screams (in some way) as the combine reaps the harvest.

And the prophecies many of us hold as true have similar scenarios.

 

[Etritonakin]

Sounds more like Genesis than Job....does it not?

Job is an extremely interesting book.

The angels -and demons -or at least Satan -are gathered around God.

Then GOD brings up the subject of JOB to SATAN -and essentially says... have you thought about this guy? He's really righteous!

Satan figures certain things might cause him to turn from God -suggests a few -pretty much everything except death was on the table -and God essentially says.. Go do that -to one of the most righteous and obedient!


Why God might do such things is worth considering ....

but... perhaps more interesting is Job's willingness to endure such things -remain faithful, etc...

What sort of knowledge or mindset would lead to that -or was it in ignorance?

(of course, some believe it to be fiction, but....)

What he endured was extremely unpleasant -he lost everything -he lost family...

but he also knew that it was a temporary situation -with a purpose -which led to a much better permanent situation. He knew the experiences of this life were to perfect him for eternal life.

God blessed him with everything even more than before -any family he lost he will see again -the former things will eventually not be called to remembrance

-and he will eventually himself be able to do such things as mentioned in Genesis -perhaps even creating worlds as described in Job -causing the angels to shout for joy.

Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Job's case was extreme -but it is more understandable when viewed as part of a process. Consider the most desirable things in the world -natural and man-made. Most anything worthwhile has been subjected to extremes. Force, pressure, temperature....

which is why God is likened to a refiner of gold and silver -and why those who go through such things are likened to jewels...

Mal 3:17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

Some have gone through similar things without any hope or without seeing any meaning.

Job had a flaw. He was wise in his own eyes.

That was resolved.... in no uncertain terms.

Still, the purpose went beyond edifying Job.

 

[InChrist]

I believe that God created humans to be included in His eternal love. I think the purpose of this life is for each person to realize this and to find complete satisfaction, fulfillment, and wholeness in the love of God forever.

 

[Thief]

Job is an extremely interesting book.

The angels -and demons -or at least Satan -are gathered around God.

Then GOD brings up the subject of JOB to SATAN -and essentially says... have you thought about this guy? He's really righteous!

I have considered Job..... a lot!

Have you considered the preamble carefully?

The sons of God gathered to present themselves and with them came the devil.
(so a presentation is about to happen?)

Objection is made by God Himself.
The sons of God are silent.

To paraphrase and do this quickly.....

What are YOU doing here?(God)

I don't need Your Permission to be here!(the devil)

Have you considered the least of my servants?(God)

This is a confrontation.
The redirect is an insult.
God would prefer the least of His servants over the presence of the devil.

The devil now has something to prove.

God had nothing to prove....neither did Job.

You may have noticed....Job is blindsided.
He did not know what was coming.

Have you really considered?

 

[Etritonakin]

I have considered Job..... a lot!

Have you considered the preamble carefully?

The sons of God gathered to present themselves and with them came the devil.
(so a presentation is about to happen?)

Objection is made by God Himself.
The sons of God are silent.

To paraphrase and do this quickly.....

What are YOU doing here?(God)

I don't need Your Permission to be here!(the devil)

Have you considered the least of my servants?(God)

This is a confrontation.
The redirect is an insult.
God would prefer the least of His servants over the presence of the devil.

The devil now has something to prove.

God had nothing to prove....neither did Job.

You may have noticed....Job is blindsided.
He did not know what was coming.

Have you really considered?

What objection -except that God objected to Satan trying to move him against Job?

Is it blasphemous or incorrect to think that God is not against Satan -but only against his present attitude and state?

I think it more than reasonable that God would treat Satan as the prodigal son if Satan returned as a prodigal son -and would have a desire similar to the father of that son
-rather than having an attitude similar to Satan -especially as God disagrees with Satan's attitude. Still -the choice lies with Satan.

I do consider -but I do not superimpose my own ideas about their attitudes (which is not what I just did) .

Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.


It might be assumed that Satan is generally adversarial -hence the name.

God asked him where he came from.

Satan told him he was essentially out and about on earth.

You assume that God intended to insult Satan.

God has explained that it is his purpose to prove himself to all.

Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Pe 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

The being who eventually became Christ went to the "demons" and preached -which is definitely intended to prove something -and the entire book of Job was similarly a pleading of cases.

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient............

...but Job definitely had no clue what was up.

 

[Thief]

What objection -except that God objected to Satan trying to move him against Job?

Is it blasphemous or incorrect to think that God is not against Satan -but only against his present attitude and state?

I think it more than reasonable that God would treat Satan as the prodigal son if Satan returned as a prodigal son -and would have a desire similar to the father of that son
-rather than having an attitude similar to Satan -especially as God disagrees with Satan's attitude. Still -the choice lies with Satan.

I do consider -but I do not superimpose my own ideas about their attitudes (which is not what I just did) .

Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.


It might be assumed that Satan is generally adversarial -hence the name.

God asked him where he came from.

Satan told him he was essentially out and about on earth.

You assume that God intended to insult Satan.

God has explained that it is his purpose to prove himself to all.

Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Pe 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

The being who eventually became Christ went to the "demons" and preached -which is definitely intended to prove something -and the entire book of Job was similarly a pleading of cases.

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient............

...but Job definitely had no clue what was up.

We digress.
But until someone steps back to topic.......

Picture this preamble a bit more personally.
You (as the devil) show up as the sons of God are presenting themselves.
(apparently seeking approval)

God himself wants to know where you came from.
(as if He doesn't?)
You make some glib remark in return.
and in return the least of God's servants is to be consider ....before you are!
It's an insult.

btw...overlapping other text is how confusion sets in......stay focused.