Iranian women risk arrest as they remove their veils for White Wednesdays

[danieldemol]

“Women in Iran are waving white clothes on the end of sticks — but it is an act of defiance, not surrender.

During the protests that rocked Iran earlier this month, a powerful image emerged of an unveiled woman waving a white veil on the end of a stick.

Vida Movahed, 31, was arrested for this act of protest. According to reports, she was detained and only released last Sunday.

Hers is not an isolated protest; more and more women are removing their hijabs — and taking the risk of posting pictures online — as part of a movement called #WhiteWednesdays.”

Read more here;
Iranian women risk arrest as they remove their veils for #WhiteWednesdays

 

[Debater Slayer]

Meanwhile, the delusions of the regressive left in some parts of the West stubbornly persist in mollycoddling Islamism and portraying "White people" as the primary oppressors of the Middle East.

Major props to the brave Iranian women, and hopefully true movements of liberty like these will gain more and more power in the Middle East regardless of the support or lack thereof from pseudo-liberal groups.

 

[Srivijaya]

I kind of doubt whether we can simply attribute the wearing of some cloth with women's oppression. Many Muslim women want to wear these things and are unhappy with burka bans etc. In some countries like Turkey and Malaysia, few women ever used to wear them, as it was all quite secular; now there's a big drift towards doing so again. Also consider the western converts who happily wear this gear. Conservative Islam is as much driven by women as it by men in my opinion.

It's easy (and perhaps gratifying) to see them as religiously oppressed ladies but the Iranian thing is probably as much about economic equality as religion. Given equal rights etc, I bet plenty would still wear it and over time subsequent generations would re-discover their love of it.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Given equal rights etc, I bet plenty would still wear it and over time subsequent generations would re-discover their love of it.

1) We'd have to see these women receive equal rights to know how true that is, so not much fear if getting an answer anytime soon.
2) The veil worn by free choice as part of supplication to God appears to be an entirely different thing to a veil worn as part of supplication to men.
3) Even were I someone who wanted to wear a veil, I would applaud these women. Observance by force cheapens all observance, imho.

 

[LuisDantas]

I kind of doubt whether we can simply attribute the wearing of some cloth with women's oppression.

Please bear with me for a short while.

Many Muslim women want to wear these things and are unhappy with burka bans etc.

That is certainly a frequent claim, and I don't doubt that there is some evidence supporting it. I don't think that is of much relevance, though.

Social psychology works like that. People seek causes to join and to bond over. Acceptance is something that people pursue. Of course many people will want to express support for the law of the land until and unless some clear reason to challenge it is made manifest.

What will truly clarify matters for us is how Muslim societies and Islaamic doctrine deal with those who are not willing to express support for conservative expectations coming from presumably religious authority.

And on that front, Islaam is, well, miserable. There is just way too much theocentrism for freedoms to be understood, let alone established.

In some countries like Turkey and Malaysia, few women ever used to wear them, as it was all quite secular; now there's a big drift towards doing so again. Also consider the western converts who happily wear this gear. Conservative Islam is as much driven by women as it by men in my opinion.

It's easy (and perhaps gratifying) to see them as religiously oppressed ladies but the Iranian thing is probably as much about economic equality as religion. Given equal rights etc, I bet plenty would still wear it and over time subsequent generations would re-discover their love of it.

I would like some indication of where this comes from. Is there some interview or research that you are aware of supporting such an impression?

I am honestly unaware of any, and I would like to learn of any.

 

[Srivijaya]

1) We'd have to see these women receive equal rights to know how true that is, so not much fear if getting an answer anytime soon.

My point is that in countries where they have free choice and have not worn it as a rule, many are now doing so. It's my belief that if they made it a free choice in Iran many women would immediately discard it. Fast forward twenty years and mums would be shocked to find their daughters wearing them in order to feel closer to their religion. In the west, where arguably any woman could take a stand, few bother and the a huge amount wear them.

2) The veil worn by free choice as part of supplication to God appears to be an entirely different thing to a veil worn as part of supplication to men.

Sure.

3) Even were I someone who wanted to wear a veil, I would applaud these women. Observance by force cheapens all observance, imho.

Agree.

 

[Srivijaya]

Please bear with me for a short while.



That is certainly a frequent claim, and I don't doubt that there is some evidence supporting it. I don't think that is of much relevance, though.

Social psychology works like that. People seek causes to join and to bond over. Acceptance is something that people pursue. Of course many people will want to express support for the law of the land until and unless some clear reason to challenge it is made manifest.

What will truly clarify matters for us is how Muslim societies and Islaamic doctrine deal with those who are not willing to express support for conservative expectations coming from presumably religious authority.

And on that front, Islaam is, well, miserable. There is just way too much theocentrism for freedoms to be understood, let alone established.


I would like some indication of where this comes from. Is there some interview or research that you are aware of supporting such an impression?

I am honestly unaware of any, and I would like to learn of any.

I'll get back to you on that.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

My point is that in countries where they have free choice and have not worn it as a rule, many are now doing so. It's my belief that if they made it a free choice in Iran many women would immediately discard it. Fast forward twenty years and mums would be shocked to find their daughters wearing them in order to feel closer to their religion. In the west, where arguably any woman could take a stand, few bother and the a huge amount wear them.

I have some issue with the last sentence. Legally, sure.

 

[Srivijaya]

I am honestly unaware of any, and I would like to learn of any.

I'm tight for time but check out these links. They explain about how the headscarf ban has been relaxed in Turkey and about Islamisation of Malaysia.

Turkey lifts headscarf ban in schools for girls as young as 10

The growing Islamisation of Malaysia: the impact of implementing hudud law

Zaid's book on Islamisation of Malaysia banned

No women fighting either. Many embracing it

 

[LuisDantas]

Women do not fight anything in Muslim communities, it would seem.

 

[Revoltingest]

“Women in Iran are waving white clothes on the end of sticks — but it is an act of defiance, not surrender.

During the protests that rocked Iran earlier this month, a powerful image emerged of an unveiled woman waving a white veil on the end of a stick.

Vida Movahed, 31, was arrested for this act of protest. According to reports, she was detained and only released last Sunday.

Hers is not an isolated protest; more and more women are removing their hijabs — and taking the risk of posting pictures online — as part of a movement called #WhiteWednesdays.”

Read more here;
Iranian women risk arrest as they remove their veils for #WhiteWednesdays

Good for them!
I just hope they succeed, & suffer no government backlash.

 

[Revoltingest]

Women do not fight anything in Muslim communities, it would seem.

Oppression is must successful when the populace shows no dissent.
(Some might want change. But saying so isn't allowed.)

 

[Srivijaya]

Women do not fight anything in Muslim communities, it would seem.

Some do but I think it's more about parity, like being allowed to drive or have economic rights than anything religious. Sure some would like to dump the headscarf, but plenty identify with it and encourage their daughters to wear them.

Don't forget that Iran used to be relatively liberal under the Shah, then the people overthrew him and installed Ayatollah Khomeini.

During the reign of Shah, women gained the right to freely choose any profession, for example first female Iranian ministers such as Farrokhroo Parsa and judges such as Shirin Ebadi, while Mehrangiz Dowlatshahi became the first female cabinet member and ambassador of Iran. These activities alienated Islamic traditionalists and hastened the fall of the Shah.