Is a minimum wage a moral issue?

[Pah]

http://www.alternet.org/election04/20688/

In two so-called "red" states that favored George W. Bush on November 2, voters also overwhelmingly approved ballot measures to raise the minimum wage by one dollar, to $6.15 an hour. In Florida, where Bush beat John Kerry by 381,000 votes, voters favored the minimum wage increase by 3.1 million votes (a lopsided 71.3 percent to 28.7 percent), despite the opposition of the state's business community and Governor Jeb Bush. In Nevada, Bush narrowly beat Kerry by 21,500 votes, but voters backed the wage boost by 293,328 votes (68.3 percent to 31.6 percent).

Aside from the politics, is a minimum standard of living the moral thing. Isn't it a moral question?

Bob

 

[Valjean]

Issues affecting the well-being of our fellow creatures, and society in general, are moral issues.

 

[jewscout]

I think that making sure we all are able to sustain ourselves and our families is a moral issue. However i feel i should point out that even the poor in America live better than the poor in most of the world.
Not to say anyone here wants to live poor but just putting things in perspective.

 

[Valjean]

Your "perspective" is entirely correct, Jewscout. Probably a quarter of the world's population can only dream of living as well as the poorest of America's poor do.

 

[Jaymes]

It is indeed a moral issue. But saying the poor in other countries can only dream of being poor in America is a bit like comparing health care in third world countries to first world countries (okay, bad analogy... American healthcare sucks).

 

[Valjean]

Careful,Jensa. I'm a critical care RN -- in the US....

 

[desi]

American healthcare is the best in the world, and we pay for it dearly.

 

[lousyskater]

most people who want minimum wage raised don't understand the consequences of it. if you raise the minimum wage, companies will have to charge more for their goods and/or services to compensate for the having to pay more money to the workers. i'm not against giving workers more money, but no matter how much money is paid to workers, it will never be enough. yay economics.

 

[Jaymes]

Only American healthcare... isn't all that great. People have to pay for a bloody AMBULANCE RIDE. And that costs money. Which ties into minimum wage. Yea.

Anyway, yea... American healthcare could definately be better. Right now it's mostly doctors looking to make money.

 

[Pah]

most people who want minimum wage raised don't understand the consequences of it. if you raise the minimum wage, companies will have to charge more for their goods and/or services to compensate for the having to pay more money to the workers. i'm not against giving workers more money, but no matter how much money is paid to workers, it will never be enough. yay economics.

The consequences most "working poor" understand is that they have to forego so much just to live. Health care for example - which puts a burden oh emergency rooms. Most small businesses that go under (and a lot do) are not done in by wages but by poor managment. Business raise prices more for profit than any other reason. You can't tell me that the larger companies can not afford to provide living wages to the "working poor" when executive officers reveive millions in retirement (for 1-2 year service) alone and the receptionist gets diddly for 20 years.

The reason the underpaid are underpaid is greed.

Bob

 

[Valjean]

It is curious that the Americans pays more for healthcare than any other people, yet those opposing a socialized (single payer) system do so primarily on the basis of cost.

 

[desi]

The consequences most "working poor" understand is that they have to forego so much just to live. Health care for example - which puts a burden oh emergency rooms. Most small businesses that go under (and a lot do) are not done in by wages but by poor managment. Business raise prices more for profit than any other reason. You can't tell me that the larger companies can not afford to provide living wages to the "working poor" when executive officers reveive millions in retirement (for 1-2 year service) alone and the receptionist gets diddly for 20 years.

The reason the underpaid are underpaid is greed.

Bob

You're talking corporations, which will always pinch the workers out. Small business is where most new jobs come from and rasining the minnimum wage discourages them from hiring more people as they are hit harder on the balance sheet than corporate decision makers.

 

[Pah]

You're talking corporations, which will always pinch the workers out. Small business is where most new jobs come from and rasining the minnimum wage discourages them from hiring more people as they are hit harder on the balance sheet than corporate decision makers.

Nope! I mean the small businesses too! If any of what you said were true about raising the wage then there'd be no new startups. Workers have always been paid "what the market will bear".That argument you advanced is all a bunch of crap. It's greed, just plain greed. Everyone wants a piece of the pie but many want a bigger slice. The less they give to workers the more they get. How are bigger, stronger corporations made? - mergers? and whats the first thing to pump up the bottom line? - consolidating positions!!! Reducing overhead is elimination of jobs. I know you've heard about that! Ever hear about "outsourcing"? where cheaper labor is available.

If laws were not made for the benefit of workers, we'd still have child sweatshops. But there will never be a living wage baseline, and don't think for a moment that minimum wage is a living wage, as long as business, big and small, has any power over legislatures. If you ask me, I'd say any minimum wage bill is "throwing the dog a bone" (and even if you don't ask me).

You have inadvertanly "punched the button" on a true liberal, my friend. A liberal - yeah! - one who sees that "the other side" only wants what's best for them and my side be cursed to hell. And my condemnation of conservativism encompasses belief systems of organized religion as well as politics.

Capiatism would not work but for greed. Class distinction would not exist but for greed and privilege. Corporate religion would not exist except for power and privilege.

Okay, I feel better now. Sorry I bit you ear off!

Bob

 

[Fluffy]

Pah, I think you are completly right, greed is the driving force behind most of our society. Raising minimum raise is perhaps not the best thing to do to solve the problem, since companies will simply cut back in other areas making jobs less pleasent/manageable for employees. The redistribution of wealth schemes that are already in place need to be increased, such as the NHS in England or the grant system. These are the things which ensure as many people as possible a certain standard of living. If you just give people more money then all that will happen is prices will go up.

 

[desi]

How is redistributing wealth going to help anyone in the long run? Haven't you learned anything from how the current tax system works? Most corporations don't pay much taxes as they can afford to create and find loopholes.

As for increasing the minnimum wage, all you have to do is look at outsourcing to see what will happen. Companies will just continue to move work overseas faster if they have to pay unskilled workers more than the market will bear.

 

[Pah]

How is redistributing wealth going to help anyone in the long run? Haven't you learned anything from how the current tax system works? Most corporations don't pay much taxes as they can afford to create and find loopholes.

As for increasing the minnimum wage, all you have to do is look at outsourcing to see what will happen. Companies will just continue to move work overseas faster if they have to pay unskilled workers more than the market will bear.

Exactly!!! That is why it is a moral issue here in the United States

Bob

 

[Melody]

Nope! I mean the small businesses too! If any of what you said were true about raising the wage then there'd be no new startups. Workers have always been paid "what the market will bear".That argument you advanced is all a bunch of crap. It's greed, just plain greed. Everyone wants a piece of the pie but many want a bigger slice. The less they give to workers the more they get. Bob

I am the owner of a small business which I started 10 years ago. My employees are paid above minimum wage, starting salary is $8 an hour, and I still don't know how they can live on it; however, I can't afford to pay them more. We do not offer benefits because we can't afford it. My warehouse and office managers are only paid $2 an hour above the average worker and I do not get paid any higher than the top manager in my company. I am in the same financial boat as my employees although I would probably guess that I make less annually than my employees because I don't always get a paycheck. When times are tough I don't lay off my employees, I stop taking a paycheck.

I belong to a group of other small business owners and many do the same as I do. Please don't lump all of us in with companies who overpay their management and owner at the expense of the worker. We aren't all motivated by greed.

 

[No*s]

Yes it is very much a moral issue. I don't know where I'd pigeon-hole myself on the left-right scale, but I do know this: people can't live on minimum wage.

Perhaps rather than raising it in general, have it evaluated according to the cost of living in a general area? Determine what that is, and raise it accordingly. I don't know if it's a smart idea, but it's an idea.